Ukraine election: Comedian Zelensky 'wins presidency by landslide' - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15000366
Ever since it has become an independent country after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine has been a bit of a joke. Thus, it make perfect sense to elect a comedian president.

Ukraine election: Comedian Zelensky 'wins presidency by landslide'

What does this mean for Ukraine and its conflict with Russia?

Will he be an independent president or will he be the puppet of oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi, who even by Ukrainian standards seems to be very much of a crook?

If people vote for crooks, jokers or oligarchs, what's the point of democracy? Once the jokers and oligarch puppets have run down a country, there will be the call for the "strong men who is willing to break the rules" as in Britain.
#15000377
Zionist Nationalist wrote:There can be no independent candidates in Ukraine the oligarchs who control the country wont allow any independent candidate to even get to the elections stage


That may be so, but let's not forget that Putin too got into power with the support from one set of oligarchs, which he managed to shake off and create his own set of oligarchs.

But then, Putin knew his trade from the KGB, whereas Zelensky looks more like an impersonation of Mr. Bean.

If ever people get tired of the Brexit shit-show, there is a whole new game in Ukraine to entertain the masses.
#15000394
Atlantis wrote:That may be so, but let's not forget that Putin too got into power with the support from one set of oligarchs, which he managed to shake off and create his own set of oligarchs.

But then, Putin knew his trade from the KGB, whereas Zelensky looks more like an impersonation of Mr. Bean.

If ever people get tired of the Brexit shit-show, there is a whole new game in Ukraine to entertain the masses.

In the future which awaits us all (yes, even the Germans), politics will be merely a form of mass entertainment performed by jokers like BoJo or this Ukrainian clown, while our fates are determined by a tiny elite of criminal billionaire oligarchs. We are almost there already.
#15000407
Potemkin wrote:In the future which awaits us all (yes, even the Germans), politics will be merely a form of mass entertainment performed by jokers like BoJo or this Ukrainian clown, while our fates are determined by a tiny elite of criminal billionaire oligarchs. We are almost there already.


Atlantis is actively working towards that, Atlantis looks forward to the day when the masses are completely subjugated by junk science to the global technate.
#15000476
Potemkin wrote:In the future which awaits us all (yes, even the Germans), politics will be merely a form of mass entertainment performed by jokers like BoJo or this Ukrainian clown, while our fates are determined by a tiny elite of criminal billionaire oligarchs. We are almost there already.


The rich and the powerful have always colluded to manipulate "the will of the people." It's just gotten more obvious today.

It's ironic that with the mass of digital information available to virtually everybody, people seem more willing to be manipulated and to believe obvious lies.

Meantime the Russian's have their moment of Schadenfreude that following the Maidan and Poroshenko, the tide is once again turning in Ukraine, even though nobody knows which way it is turning.

KRASNODAR, RUSSIA – Volodymyr Zelensky’s victory in Sunday’s Ukrainian Presidential election marks the moment when the Western populist wave comes to the post-Soviet space.

It also serves as a compete rejection of the divisive, ethno-nationalist policies pursued by his opponent, Petro Poroshenko, over the past five years.

Like US President Donald Trump and Italy’s Beppe Grillo, Zelensky has leveraged a major television profile for political gain, but he’s pulled it off on an inclusive platform in his campaigning, contrasting with the discordant rhetoric of his opponent.

Now, Ukraine faces an unusual situation. It has replaced an ideologically fanatical President with a complete unknown quantity. One who lacks any parliamentary power-base and must wait six months for elections to the legislature, the Rada.

The paradox of Ukraine’s 2014 Maidan was that it looked like a revolution, but its aftermath amounted to more of a re-arranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic than any real change of power.

Now, those chickens may finally have come home to roost. And that movement’s Western backers can only blame themselves for having prioritized their own geopolitical interests over the genuine desire of Ukrainians for change.

Hoodwinked Heroes
Petro Poroshenko was the wrong choice to lead post-Maidan Ukraine, which was conceived on the promise of a complete overhaul of political elites. Selecting a billionaire who had served in cabinet under the Viktor Yushchenko and Viktor Yanukovich administrations was an immediate betrayal of the promises made on the streets of Kiev.

Poroshenko and those around him were products of the nineties, when the post-Soviet oligarchic system was formed. And the limited reforms they acquiesced-to were enacted under pressure from the US and the EU.

Perhaps the elite was smart to resist. After all, the harsh measures inspired the emigration of millions of Ukrainians, mostly to Poland and Russia. The drift to the latter a glaring paradox, given Poroshenko’s hostility to his neighbor.

The outgoing president’s strategy was obvious. And cynical. He knew he could rely on Western support so long as he maintained an anti-Russian posture, and to hell with promised structural reforms. Because, as Poroshenko was acutely aware, Brussels and Washington will tolerate any transgressions which suit their geopolitical agenda.

For evidence, witness Western silence as he pushed one-time US darling Mikhail Saakashvili out of Ukrainian politics. In just over six months, the former Georgian President went from being Governor of Odessa to being rendered stateless, after Poroshenko revoked his Ukrainian citizenship and later had him deported. All done with barely a whimper of protest from a Western establishment which once lionized Saakashvili.

Sadly, for Poroshenko, Ukrainian voters were less accommodating. And now the West has to deal with Zelensky, who may just turn out to be more pro-Ukraine than “pro-West.” If so, he will know that, if Ukraine has any chance of prospering, it must somehow normalize relations with Moscow, which remains its largest trading partner.

Real Change?
Zelensky’s TV series ‘Servant of the People’ was essentially a dramatized campaign advert. Beaming the actor into the homes of millions and making ordinary Ukrainians comfortable with the concept of him leading the country. Although, of course, many may have voted for the idea of his character, Vasyl Holoborodko, rather than the real deal.

In the series, Holoborodko is a straight-shooter who battles corrupt elites. And, of course, corruption is the number one issue for Ukrainian voters, who know Poroshenko, as an oligarch himself, was never going to destroy the system which helped create his own fortune.

Thus, Zelensky, or at least the fictional politician he plays in the show, was obviously more credible than his opponent when promising to tackle graft.

Zelensky also chose a positive campaign platform, avoiding unrealistic promises. By contrast, Poroshenko stood on his ability to hold firm against Russia. But, in doing so, he often gave the impression he thought he was competing with Vladimir Putin instead of his actual opponent.

Furthermore, his Russia-bashing, often hysterical, alienated voters in central, southern and eastern regions, many of whom feel an affinity with Russian culture and use Russian as their primary tongue. Indeed, it doesn’t seem to have worked in the West either, as exit polls suggest Poroshenko lost in every region except the hyper-patriotic Galicia.

As an aside, whatever one may think about Poroshenko, he has at least cleared the way for a peaceful transfer of power and, more importantly, a peaceful change of elites. And this is something Russia, and much of the ex-USSR, has yet to experience.

That said, most people here viewed the Ukrainian election as circus and watched it like a form of reality TV. Not because they wished to emulate it. With this in mind, the conduct of the campaign probably did more harm than good to the prospects of Western-style democracy taking off in Russia.

Zelensky may turn out to be ineffective. And, unless he can somehow orchestrate a radical overhaul of the Rada this autumn, he will be rendered politically weak.

Nevertheless, his election victory confirms that Ukrainians are tired of being used as pawns by both external actors and their own elites.

The West backed the wrong man in Poroshenko. And, before that, Russia made the same mistake with his predecessor Yanukovich. Zelensky would be wise to put Ukraine first, and realize the zero-sum game has gotten his country nowhere.


Poroshenko out, Zelensky in: West backed the wrong man in Ukraine & now it’s payback time
#15000493
the conduct of the campaign probably did more harm than good to the prospects of Western-style democracy taking off in Russia.

It's very unlikely that the Russians would ever look (down) to Ukraine for any example, especially if they meant to introduce Western-style democracy, with which they have their own experiences anyway, they would rather look to France instead. And it is even truer of the elites in Moscow, who always mean to be on par with Paris, not Kiev. Liberal democracy turning into a complete joke and farce in Ukraine also shouldn't surprise them much.
#15000531
Atlantis wrote:Ever since it has become an independent country after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine has been a bit of a joke. Thus, it make perfect sense to elect a comedian president.

Ukraine election: Comedian Zelensky 'wins presidency by landslide'

What does this mean for Ukraine and its conflict with Russia?

Will he be an independent president or will he be the puppet of oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi, who even by Ukrainian standards seems to be very much of a crook?

If people vote for crooks, jokers or oligarchs, what's the point of democracy? Once the jokers and oligarch puppets have run down a country, there will be the call for the "strong men who is willing to break the rules" as in Britain.


Ukraine requires purges. The whole system is corrupt the same way the Russian system is. There are very few countries that managed to do it after the fall of the Soviet Union. Ukraine needs a systemic purge and no compromise with the old crooks. One of the few politicians in the post SU space besides the ones that are already part of the EU is Mikhail Sakaashvili. He has his sins because of South Ossetian conflict but more or less his methods are applicable in Ukraine. Which he basically stole from Polish and Estonian leaders.(Or with our blessing but that is besides the point) They will work as they have worked in the EU for Warshaw pact countries/states that were part of the SU.
#15000632
Beren wrote:It's very unlikely that the Russians would ever look (down) to Ukraine for any example, especially if they meant to introduce Western-style democracy, with which they have their own experiences anyway, they would rather look to France instead. And it is even truer of the elites in Moscow, who always mean to be on par with Paris, not Kiev. Liberal democracy turning into a complete joke and farce in Ukraine also shouldn't surprise them much.


Zelensky can speak directly to Russians. He can tell them that if change is possible in Ukraine, there is no reason why it shouldn't be possible in Russia. Thus, the idea of Ukraine serving as model for Russia is not that outlandish. If Ukrainians can do it, then Russians will believe they can do it since they wouldn't want to consider themselves inferior to Ukrainians.

The problem is that Zelensky cannot make Ukraine's economic problems go away. If the nationalist elements in Ukraine let him and if Putin plays ball, he could reboot relations with Russia and give the economy a boost. But these are two very big IFs.
#15000652
Atlantis wrote:The problem is that Zelensky cannot make Ukraine's economic problems go away. If the nationalist elements in Ukraine let him and if Putin plays ball, he could reboot relations with Russia and give the economy a boost. But these are two very big IFs.

Maybe you know something, but I don't see how relations with Russia could be rebooted by Kolomoyskyi's tool Zelenskiy. Kolomoyskyi seems worse than Poroshenko in all respects to me and his main goal must be to return to Ukraine and get back his nationalised properties. The Russians are happy with this because it spectacularly proves liberal democracy doesn't work in Eastern Europe and this tragicomedy just cannot end well for Ukraine (Jews in Ukraine especially), not because they expect any good from Kolomoyskyi for themselves.

Edit: It's already happened. :lol:

The Times of Israel wrote:Ukraine reverses nationalization of Israeli tycoon’s bank

Court rules 2016 move by President Petro Poroshenko was illegal and that Privatbank must be returned to Ihor Kolomoyskyi


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