Decisive Contribution to Victory in WW2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The Second World War (1939-1945).
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15040217
The defeat of fascism was achieved by the teamwork of the states of the anti-Hitler coalition and the resistance forces in the occupied countries, and each of the countries at that time contributed to the victory by playing their roles in this world battle. However, the contribution of the Soviet Union is greatly diminished, despite the fact that their contribution was significant, decisive and crushing (Russia's losses amounted to 27 million people!!).

Indeed, thanks to their army in 1945, our brothers, fathers and grandfathers did not die in a fierce struggle with the Japanese in the Pacific Ocean (Guadalcanal, Peleliu, Okinawa, etc.), 11 European countries were freed from Nazi oppression, and the defeat of the main Nazi bloc forces ensured the unconditional surrender of Germany and Japan.
#15040218
Bob Miller wrote:The defeat of fascism was achieved by the teamwork of the states of the anti-Hitler coalition and the resistance forces in the occupied countries, and each of the countries at that time contributed to the victory by playing their roles in this world battle. However, the contribution of the Soviet Union is greatly diminished, despite the fact that their contribution was significant, decisive and crushing (Russia's losses amounted to 27 million people!!).

Indeed, thanks to their army in 1945, our brothers, fathers and grandfathers did not die in a fierce struggle with the Japanese in the Pacific Ocean (Guadalcanal, Peleliu, Okinawa, etc.), 11 European countries were freed from Nazi oppression, and the defeat of the main Nazi bloc forces ensured the unconditional surrender of Germany and Japan.


Soviet Union did contribute the greatest for the victory against Germany but it was in no way larger than the combined contribution of France, Britain, China and the US. Nor was the war only with Germany. It was the strongest country in the Axis but forgetting that the war was far, far larger than only Germany is the fault of current Russian government who doesn't have victories of its own and tries to promote some victories from the past. China lost far more people by the way. Victories are not counted by amount of dead on any side. Victories are counted perhaps by the order that happens after and the Soviet Union is gone. All of the warshaw pact countries are gone. Communism is gone. Russian leaders might have won the war but they have failed the peace.
#15040224
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Stalin resorted to Chinese-style human wave attacks to defeat the Nazi invaders due to the lack of other resources available. If ordinary Soviet soldiers started to retreat or flee, they were shot from behind. The human costs were staggering.

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Memorial Complex 1941-1945

This memorial commemorates the citizens of Vladivostok who perished in the Second World War. A T-34/76 tank turret and naval gun can be found here.

https://www.tracesofwar.com/sights/8242 ... 1-1945.htm
#15040226
Actually russians were the first in the world to be in space. And I don’t think it’s respectful to say or hint that the 27 million dead people are bullshit.
China lost just 15 million people, America 400 000, while Russia lost the largest number of people in the entire war
#15040229
ThirdTerm wrote:Image

Stalin resorted to Chinese-style human wave attacks to defeat the Nazi invaders due to the lack of other resources available. If ordinary Soviet soldiers started to retreat or flee, they were shot from behind. The human costs were staggering.

Image


Stalin is a man whose work and personal qualities require the most polar assessments, but his public actions during the war had a great positive and moral impact on the Soviet people, which inspire confidence in the ultimate victory.

With all the shortcomings and mistakes, Stalin became the figure who was able to rally the military and political leadership and the entire Soviet people during the war, assume responsibility for all key decisions and become one of the Victory symbols. Let me remind you of Churchill’s words he uttered at the height of the war in 1942: “For Russia, it’s great happiness that at the time of its suffering, this great, firm commander is at the head. Stalin is a large and strong personality, corresponding to those rough times in which he has to live. ”
#15040245
Clare Dauson wrote:Actually russians were the first in the world to be in space. And I don’t think it’s respectful to say or hint that the 27 million dead people are bullshit.
China lost just 15 million people, America 400 000, while Russia lost the largest number of people in the entire war


Okay listen. I understand you guys have many accounts. I understand your narrative and i know how education and tv is in Russia. How can i? Well i am half-russian from 1 side of the family. The problem that you are trying to sell on this forum is oblivious to most actually, like why are you even posting about WW2. In Russia it is hailed as a great victory that should be remembered for centuries. It was a great victory and SU contributed a lot. The problem with your narrative though is the Russian state wants to worship this due to absence of any other achievements of post-SU collapse. For most people in the West its a historical fact but that is about it. Victory in WW2 and launching rockets in to space does not bring tangible benefits to the people.

So most people won't understand here that this is a Russian sales pitch of sorts to vote for the current people in power in Russia. As of last 5 years this thing has risen to ridiculous levels along with the state and church almost becoming one. I understand why it is happening: conflict in Ukraine, outside pressure, bad economic performance, mistakes done on the side of EU and US in relationship with Russia etc but ultimately Russians are not going to live a better life if the state and church become one nor are things going to improve if people are constantly getting distracted by glorification of X, Y, Z etc.
#15040276
Potemkin wrote:Lolwut? :eh:


Yeah, I think not being exterminated under Generalplan Ost is a pretty good benefit, but what do I know? People have an agenda of running down Russia's achievements because frankly they do not wish Russia to survive at all. There's plenty of Vlasovite Suka out there, at first I was shocked by that when I first encountered it, but not anymore. Many people in this world have their price, some higher, some lower. This is how and why the Soviet Union collapsed in the first place.
#15040342
Potemkin wrote:Lolwut? :eh:


You misunderstand as i said. Defeating Nazis had an effect at the time. But my post was not just about WW2 but also how it is used right now. Right now it is used as a propaganda tool of sorts to distract people and as a sales pitch to vote for the people in power. Russia stronk of sorts. Right now it does not bring any tangible benefits to the people. As i said, its a complicated subject of how Russia operates right now. Its understandable why it is happening but it doesn't mean that it is positive. (At least in my opinion)
#15040344
JohnRawls wrote:You misunderstand as i said. Defeating Nazis had an effect at the time. But my post was not just about WW2 but also how it is used right now. Right now it is used as a propaganda tool of sorts to distract people and as a sales pitch to vote for the people in power. Russia stronk of sorts. Right now it does not bring any tangible benefits to the people. As i said, its a complicated subject of how Russia operates right now. Its understandable why it is happening but it doesn't mean that it is positive. (At least in my opinion)

Every nation has to create a myth about itself, in order to survive and prosper as a nation. France had to do this after its catastrophic defeat in 1940 - De Gaulle basically falsified history, even as it was happening, to create a myth of France's conduct during WWII and the Nazi Occupation which it could live with going forward. De Gaulle made sure, for example, that he was seen marching side by side with the leaders of the other victorious Allies when Paris was liberated, and they were happy to play along with him. Likewise, the British created a myth about themselves as the plucky little nation standing alone against the Nazi hordes in 1940, daring Hitler to invade us.... It's all lies of course. But why are we allowed to do this and Russia isn't? :eh:
#15040347
Potemkin wrote:Likewise, the British created a myth about themselves as the plucky little nation standing alone against the Nazi hordes in 1940, daring Hitler to invade us.... It's all lies of course. But why are we allowed to do this and Russia isn't? :eh:

Maybe you'd be better off without such myths, or you just shouldn't take them so seriously as they don't serve you always well, see Brexit. Despite their lots of traditions and myths the Russians are very rational recently.
#15040350
Potemkin wrote:Every nation has to create a myth about itself, in order to survive and prosper as a nation. France had to do this after its catastrophic defeat in 1940 - De Gaulle basically falsified history, even as it was happening, to create a myth of France's conduct during WWII and the Nazi Occupation which it could live with going forward. De Gaulle made sure, for example, that he was seen marching side by side with the leaders of the other victorious Allies when Paris was liberated, and they were happy to play along with him. Likewise, the British created a myth about themselves as the plucky little nation standing alone against the Nazi hordes in 1940, daring Hitler to invade us.... It's all lies of course. But why are we allowed to do this and Russia isn't? :eh:


It was a necessity of the time after the situation occured but now it has been 70+ years. Now it is used as a propaganda tool to distract.
#15040351
JohnRawls wrote:It was a necessity of the time after the situation occured but now it has been 70+ years. Now it is used as a propaganda tool to distract.

But that's true for the West as well as for Russia. Again, why are we allowed to do it and Russia isn't? :eh:
#15040368
The first thing I mention, when people go on about how well WWII went for the west, is that it was a joint effort. It's true - everything Clare said about Russia's role, and Potemkin and annatar - but it was everyone, yes the rus, the canucks, yanks, the limeys, poes, french resistance, aussies...

Then again, 'we' helped cause WWII in the first place. We helped to bankrupt Germany and supported Fascism as a bulwark against communism in the 1930's.

(shrugs)

Like everyone has already pointed out, the propaganda came from all sides and singling out one side for criticism is pretty unfair. Also, it was written that post-SU Russia has made 'no achievements', we share a great dislike of Putina but you can't really say that's strictly true.
#15040372
Potemkin wrote:But that's true for the West as well as for Russia. Again, why are we allowed to do it and Russia isn't? :eh:


I guess the best answer i can give to this because we have free/semi-free media compared to Russian state owned and whoever is in power runs it. Placing things like this as advertisment to vote for them.
#15040378
https://www.mediareform.org.uk/media-ow ... e-uk-media

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https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article ... ssion=true

"The Guardian, Britain’s leading liberal newspaper with a global reputation for independent and critical journalism, has been successfully targeted by security agencies to neutralise its adversarial reporting of the ‘security state’, according to newly released documents and evidence from former and current Guardian journalists.


The UK security services targeted The Guardian after the newspaper started publishing the contents of secret US government documents leaked by National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden in June 2013."

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