A group of convservative lawyers call for a "expeditious" impeachment - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15041147
"More than a dozen prominent conservative lawyers, including George T. Conway III, offered their legal reasoning for an “expeditious” impeachment probe into President Trump..

“We have not just a political candidate open to receiving foreign assistance to better his chances at winning an election, but a current president openly and privately calling on foreign governments to actively interfere in the most sacred of U.S. democratic processes, our elections”

“There comes a tipping point where you look at this and say, ‘My country first; the party comes second’”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
#15041409
Call me old fashioned, but what's wrong with removing people through elections? If you don't like the way electoral system works, for example Trump wining the Presidency despite losing the vote change the system. If you don't like waiting 4 years before having a chance to replace a terrible President, then reduce the time between elections. Stop looking to courts to do the work of elections for you. Stop looking to fake judicial procedures like impeachment.

Better still get rid of executive Presidents, Governors and Mayors, elect the leader through legislature and then the legislature can recall a rogue leader anytime it wants.
#15041417
late wrote:You want to change the Constitution. I assume you know how that works?

IOW, you have things bassackwards.

Most politically active, or politically vocal people are highly partisan. They to a significant degree only care about winning. But we have to constantly listen to them droning on about supposedly higher or non partisan principles.

So Conservatives whined on and on and on about the importance of character when Clinton was President, but then we find out they couldn't give a toss about character, if it got in the way of winning. Conservatives whined on and on about the growth of Presidential power under Obama, but then we find out they couldn't give a toss about Presidential power when Trump is in the White House. Conservatives spent a century whining on about States rights and then introduced DOMA. Conservatives bore us near to death, celebrating the anti populist and undemocratic nature of the US Constitution and then the same people start whining like bitches and screaming fascism when the British governmental system doesn't respond inside five minutes to their interpretation of the popular will over Brexit

I spend plenty of time Liberal baiting so I'll leave it to someone else to point out all the Liberal hypocrisies. My point is the Constitution could be changed if Liberals really cared about it, rather than just caring about it when it causes them to lose.
#15041446
Rich wrote:Better still get rid of executive Presidents, Governors and Mayors, elect the leader through legislature and then the legislature can recall a rogue leader anytime it wants.


Parliamentary systems are prone to degenerate into tyranny as well, for example when a successful political party is dominated by a single charismatic leader. This is more likely to happen with proportional representation, because a single leader with lots of lackeys on the party list can easily take over the legislature and with it the executive.

Since I live under a directorial system, I never quite understood why it fell out of favor everywhere else. The Athenians had 10 strategoi, the Romans 2 consuls. Prominent historical precedents.
#15041695
Finfinder wrote:What kind of lawyer would call for an impeachment when the person who would be impeached is not allowed a "defense". Very telling.

What's also very telling is that the right to a speedy trial belongs to the accused, not the prosecution. Every lawyer knows this, and these lawyers do too and they clearly are not interested in a fair trial.

Rich wrote:Call me old fashioned, but what's wrong with removing people through elections?

The Democrats have fucked up their primaries so bad with AOC and the Squad that I think they've realized that they cannot win in 2020. They are literally running on things like giving healthcare to illegal aliens, taking away private health plans for Americans and forcing everyone onto Medicare, taking away internal combustion engines, air travel, fire arms, etc. They are basically promising a return to medieval life. Just as in 2016, phony media polls cannot save them; although, they will surely try.

If you've seen Trump's last two rallies, it's blowing away the lesser politicians who couldn't draw half the crowds Trump does if they were promising to shower the crowd with $100 bills.

Rich wrote:Better still get rid of executive Presidents, Governors and Mayors, elect the leader through legislature and then the legislature can recall a rogue leader anytime it wants.

America was designed to have a separate unitary executive--something like an elected King. They expressly didn't want a parliamentary system. Our country would be paralyzed with a prime minister. We would be about as politically stable as Italy.

Rich wrote:but then we find out they couldn't give a toss about Presidential power when Trump is in the White House.

Trump hasn't expanded presidential power. To be fair, he hasn't reduced it that much either. On the contrary, political partisans throughout the courts and bureaucracy have done their level best to undermine Trump's exercise of office.

Rich wrote:So Conservatives whined on and on and on about the importance of character when Clinton was President, but then we find out they couldn't give a toss about character, if it got in the way of winning.

They actually did care, and Clinton ran on being a religious guy which was totally phony as we learned. Bush did the same thing. What's happened is that the evangelicals have understood how they were used by the establishment (Clinton and Bush) and now they are inherently more pragmatic. Trump CANNOT win without them, so he MUST do THEIR bidding. Yet, that is why the deep state/establishment is doing their level best to try to discredit Trump. It's why it's laughably funny as they try to expose Trump's sexual peccadillos only to reinforce in the minds of voters that Trump isn't a homosexual, but rather an alpha male. He's had children with all of his wives.

Rich wrote:Conservatives spent a century whining on about States rights and then introduced DOMA.

DOMA was because so much federal legislation depended on nuclear families and two thousand years of stare decisis. Obergefell is far worse than DOMA, because it asserts that the constitution holds something it does not hold. DOMA did not prevent domestic partnerships. It just prevented changing the nature of marriage upon which so much federal legislation depended. It is in fact why conservatives like myself no longer take the Republican party seriously. I am just fine if they collapse. I have no need of Republicans. Fuck 'em all.

Rich wrote:Conservatives bore us near to death, celebrating the anti populist and undemocratic nature of the US Constitution and then the same people start whining like bitches and screaming fascism when the British governmental system doesn't respond inside five minutes to their interpretation of the popular will over Brexit

To be fair, it's been three years and three prime ministers. It's a little more than 5 minutes. Britain is not a Republic, but a constitutional monarchy. Many Americans find it humorous that the establishment in America is suddenly claiming to be concerned about foreign influence in US elections, but has no such concern about EU influence in British elections or Obama campaigning to keep the UK in the EU.

Rich wrote:I spend plenty of time Liberal baiting so I'll leave it to someone else to point out all the Liberal hypocrisies. My point is the Constitution could be changed if Liberals really cared about it, rather than just caring about it when it causes them to lose.

I laid it out in another thread that the left has executed a shift away from the working classes, and in America's Democratic Party, this means that they have deprecated their largest voting bloc. Here's a summary from Douglas Murray's comments:

#15041706
blackjack21 wrote:

I laid it out in another thread that the left has executed a shift away from the working classes, and in America's Democratic Party, this means that they have deprecated their largest voting bloc. Here's a summary from Douglas Murray's comments:



Tell me about it. This sort of bullshit from the fake ''Left'' has all but destroyed the real ''Old Left'', the real Socialists and Communists that actually made the wealthy suddenly 'concerned' about the working class people underneath them, if only to prevent having their holdings nationalized and liquidated by an even more Left faction...
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