AOC is a rock star... - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By late
#15044461
You really need to watch the videos.

"AOC has shown a remarkable ability to extract energizing viral moments from stale bureaucratic meetings...

ExxonMobil... In the video, she shows Martin Hoffert, a consultant for the company, a graph he worked on from 1982 and asks him to describe it. Thus she gets him to explain how the company knew about climate change before she was even born – predicting its levels accurately until the present day.

The stinger comes at the end, when Hoffert testifies: “We were excellent scientists,” and she adds: “Yes. You were: so they knew. ”

It's called speaking truth to power, and she is quite good at it.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lexandria-
#15044472
late wrote:You really need to watch the videos.

"AOC has shown a remarkable ability to extract energizing viral moments from stale bureaucratic meetings...

ExxonMobil... In the video, she shows Martin Hoffert, a consultant for the company, a graph he worked on from 1982 and asks him to describe it. Thus she gets him to explain how the company knew about climate change before she was even born – predicting its levels accurately until the present day.

The stinger comes at the end, when Hoffert testifies: “We were excellent scientists,” and she adds: “Yes. You were: so they knew. ”

It's called speaking truth to power, and she is quite good at it.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lexandria-


The problem of AOC is that she is Trump of the Democrats. Although i am not stupid enough to ignore anything that she proposes, I still think that majority of the things will not be well thought out or redicilouse. Although both her and Trump do kinda get it to a degree compared to others in Washington so they got that going for them.
By late
#15044479
JohnRawls wrote:
The problem of AOC is that she is Trump of the Democrats. Although i am not stupid enough to ignore anything that she proposes, I still think that majority of the things will not be well thought out or redicilouse. Although both her and Trump do kinda get it to a degree compared to others in Washington so they got that going for them.



Trump is a reactionary and a crook, AOC is a Progressive.

But the thought that she is the antithesis of Trump might be worth discussion.
#15044491
late wrote:Trump is a reactionary and a crook, AOC is a Progressive.

But the thought that she is the antithesis of Trump might be worth discussion.


AOC is a progressive and a crook for a large chunk of conservatives. I understand that their policies are different but that doesn't change much.

They work under more or less the same premises as much as I can tell. Yes, they come to different conclusions but they also use similar methods and similar style. The new green deal is just a far larger version of the wall. At best they are just symbols which won't solve any problems.
By late
#15044497
JohnRawls wrote:
They work under more or less the same premises as much as I can tell. Yes, they come to different conclusions but they also use similar methods and similar style. The new green deal is just a far larger version of the wall. At best they are just symbols which won't solve any problems.



One of them is not in Putin's pocket.

Give her time, she's going way beyond symbolic.
#15044508
late wrote:One of them is not in Putin's pocket.

Give her time, she's going way beyond symbolic.


I don't buy the "puppet" theories. Trump is not a puppet of Putin. The same applies to AOC. AOC is not a puppet of Soros or whoever her opponents want to assign to her.

My fear is that AOC or Trump will take something too far without thinking it through. On one hand i am not afraid of building a wall. Building or not building it is not that much of a waste/benefit. On the other hand Tax cuts might have dire consequences long term while right now they did provide some increase in wages. (One of) This is technically a one of fix but not a systemic change for the issue.

AOC on the other hand is faced with the same problems. The new Green deal, as nice as it sounds, has the potential to do large harm. The amount of waste here will be catastrophic compared to Trumps wall with minimal benefits. You won't be able to make renewables work outside of Texas, California perhaps some other more southern states. That is what? 1/3rd of the country? What are you gonna do in the other 2/3rds.
Then we get in to taxation issues. Taxes should rise but not on the middle class and especially not on salaries for the middle class and below. In actuality the new green deal is basically a tax on the middle class who will be funding it not just through taxation but also through higher energy bills and so on.
#15044527
This bitch is fucking dumb she is not doing anything on her own she is being run by the justice democrats and the man behind them is the greatest asshole cenk uygur. this is true to the other bitches at what they call as "the squad" they are all shills but they have charisma and they are dangerous. I would not want to live in a country where AOC is president I would perfer to live in China Africa or anywhere else and not in a SJW authoritarian hellhole
#15044529
Some rocks can be quite sharp. Obsidian blades can be sharper than scalpels.

@JohnRawls

1. Yes, she is as good as Trump when it comes to branding an image that is spectacular for their respective bases.
2. It is an established fact that fossil fuel companies knew about global warming before the public did.
3. If the greening of US infrastructure also includes nuclear, there should be no increase in costs. The research is already done, and the military already has the production capacity.
#15044535
JohnRawls wrote:The problem of AOC is that she is Trump of the Democrats.

That's not her problem. That's why she's relevant. Her problem is that in spite of being quick, she's so propagandized that she often demonstrates a rather deterministic stupidity. Hopefully, as she matures and realizes her education was mostly an indoctrination, she will be able to be a more independent and intelligent voice.

JohnRawls wrote:Although both her and Trump do kinda get it to a degree compared to others in Washington so they got that going for them.

They are both superlative at calling out the establishment on their shit. AOC campaigned for impeachment, and when Pelosi finally caved, AOC said she was bored and over it--leaving Nancy twisting in the breeze with no evidence, no case, and a bunch of secret-not-so-secret meetings generating hearsay testimony to try to manufacture "bombshell" testimony that amounts to nothing, while Trump derails them on the other end by calling it a "lynching" and getting them all to freak out even though they had all said exactly the same thing about the Clinton impeachment. AOC and Trump are fantastic at making the establishment look like complete fools.

JohnRawls wrote:They work under more or less the same premises as much as I can tell. Yes, they come to different conclusions but they also use similar methods and similar style.

That's exactly it.

JohnRawls wrote:The new green deal is just a far larger version of the wall. At best they are just symbols which won't solve any problems.

The problem with the green new deal is that it is not financially feasible, and likely ineffective. The wall is financially feasible, but only marginally effective. AOC makes the establishment look chickenshit and unimaginative; Trump makes them look anti-democratic and intransigent. Either way, the establishment is getting its ass kicked, which is a good thing.

JohnRawls wrote:Taxes should rise but not on the middle class and especially not on salaries for the middle class and below.

The welfare state depends on growth. Raising taxes would kill growth by crushing aggregate demand when interest rates and inflation are already low.

Finfinder wrote:AOC is as dumb as a box of rocks.

She is, but it is a deterministic kind of stupid--which is to say she's passionately wrong, because she was misinformed by her professors.
#15044536
@Zionist Nationalist @Finfinder

History shows that you don't need to be smart to be president of the united states. It might actually be a detrimental trait for getting elected. The 2 smartest ones in recent history were George Bush Senior who got 1 term and Obama. The rest were, if you read about them, pretty mediocre or had special routines to prepare them instead of being just overall smart and knowing what they are doing. Clinton, for example, crammed like an undergrade student for his SAT exam before every important summit or negotiation with the state department and the CIA etc..
#15044537
@blackjack21

She is, but it is a deterministic kind of stupid--which is to say she's passionately wrong, because she was misinformed by her professors.


There is nothing wrong with her style, approach or being indoctrinated. Politics is a form of indoctrination. What you have to look at is if the final results are good for the largest body of people or citizens in a nation or not. I think she is doing a good job of shaking up the establishment Democrats.

She is not dumb in the least. You compare her to the shit that comes out of the mouth of that total idiot from the Republican party Sarah Palin? There is no comparison.

No, she is not wrong at all.

The ones wrong are the ones who think Trump is the solution to destroying that rotten establishment. He is basically establishment with a different style. Nothing substantially different about his profiting personally from his position. That is what all that swamp does on a daily basis.

She never used corporate funds to gain access to her position. She was outspent by a lot. But still won.

No, AOC is not dumb. Not at all.
#15044538
late wrote:You really need to watch the videos.

"AOC has shown a remarkable ability to extract energizing viral moments from stale bureaucratic meetings...

ExxonMobil... In the video, she shows Martin Hoffert, a consultant for the company, a graph he worked on from 1982 and asks him to describe it. Thus she gets him to explain how the company knew about climate change before she was even born – predicting its levels accurately until the present day.

The stinger comes at the end, when Hoffert testifies: “We were excellent scientists,” and she adds: “Yes. You were: so they knew. ”

It's called speaking truth to power, and she is quite good at it.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lexandria-


She is good at that and a whole lot more.

Who knows where AOC will be in twenty years? She comes from another generation of young people with a different need to change policies in political life.

She might be limited to New York politics for a while. But it all depends how she handles pressure over time. That is the key to having a long lasting political career. How she handles pressure.

She is pro Independence for Puerto Rico. For me? It makes her intelligent with that alone. Lol.

All this obsession with bullshit like her high heels and so on...She dresses nicely and simply and feminine. I like that.

Lol. Not much I don't like about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. ;)

Not many people questioning banks and their dirty ways. It doesn't surprise me that banks are not the enemy of the Republican party or the majority of the Democrats either.

But they should be questioning the banking system. She does so.

Another point in her favor.

#15044547
@blackjack21

I don't disagree on most of what you said. The several main things though that i don't agree with is that:

1) Welfare state grows by increasing wages for the workers. Yes the taxes are high but your argument doesn't stand that welfare state is only interested in increasing taxes. It doesn't exactly work that way in long term. It highly depends how the tax is structured and welfare states in history relied on overtaxing the higher brackets while maintaining middle/lower classes more or less alone. This creates a situation where the consumption of general purpose goods is up and houses aquisitions and cars is actually very high compared to what we have now. Consumption of luxury goods suffers a lot though. ( Fine art, yachts, supercars etc). It is a complicated topic that i haven't fully grasp but as much as I understand, the people who really wanted to create a welfare state basically relied on this kind of logic. Reduced consumption of luxuries was compensated by increased consumption of general goods like food, cars, chairs etc.

The problems of such a system is perhaps opposite to what we have now. Well, at least the main problems: Low capital profits, pricier goods, high inflation, uncertainty if profit will be made or not.

So basically the share of GDP for wages and capital changes in such a system. Here are several examples for the US:
Image

Image

Image


2) The new Green deal if financially feasable. In the long term 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 trillion is not a problem for the US. It has never been. The problem is what you will get out of it. Will it stimulate the economy? Probably not so much. Will it make US "Green"? Probably not so much and will involve a lot of useless spending and corruption. For other people reading this, i support reasonable Green measures. I believe in global warming etc. The problem is that current situation in US makes Green energy unimplementable. Gas is dirt cheap because of fracking. Realistically California and Texas are the only super good places to implement Green technology right now along with perhaps some other southern states. The rest don't have enough wind, sun, geothermal etc to actually do this AND have an abundance of Gas from fracking to produce cheap electricity. In Europe the situation is similar yet a bit different. There is no fracking revolution but we have ample amount of Nuclear energy along with good supplies from Russia. So European Greens also hate nuclear. I am not sure how it is in that regard in the US.
#15044550
Yes, AOC, she doesn't ask tough questions and asks about how abusive for profit companies do the government rip off schemes....yes, she is there....questioning the free market....captive market...

Hmmm. I don't think she qualifies as dumb....but men who don't like socialist Puerto Rican women from the Bronx might disagree.....

#15044553
JohnRawls wrote:The problem of AOC is that she is Trump of the Democrats.


Lmbo, yeah. She's equivalent to a guy who has dementia from speed abuse and literally doesn't know what's going on at any given time.
#15044555
SpecialOlympian wrote:
Lmbo, yeah. She's equivalent to a guy who has dementia from speed abuse and literally doesn't know what's going on at any given time.



Well yea, of course she's not that.

I think the core of the point is that she's polarizing. That is central Trump's playbook. So yes, saying she's the Trump of the left is a bit much.
#15044564
She's polarizing because:

1) The GOP calls every Democrat a socialist, when one with actual leftist politics show up they freak the fuck out. They would rather use socialism as a bludgeon against left leaning centrists than deal with actual leftists.
2) She's a woman and is non-white. Reactionary ideology demands that her opinions be marginalized lest the discourse not be driven by white men.
3) She makes GOP men incredibly horny.

She was inspired to run because of Bernie and holds similar positions yet you see a fraction of the attention and hatred targeted at Bernie himself, who has an actual shot in the primaries. However, pundits are not angrily jerking it to Bernie.
#15044573
SpecialOlympian wrote:She's polarizing because:

1) The GOP calls every Democrat a socialist, when one with actual leftist politics show up they freak the fuck out. They would rather use socialism as a bludgeon against left leaning centrists than deal with actual leftists.
2) She's a woman and is non-white. Reactionary ideology demands that her opinions be marginalized lest the discourse not be driven by white men.
3) She makes GOP men incredibly horny.

She was inspired to run because of Bernie and holds similar positions yet you see a fraction of the attention and hatred targeted at Bernie himself, who has an actual shot in the primaries. However, pundits are not angrily jerking it to Bernie.


Yeah, whatever. We know that you don't like Trump. But don't be that one sided. AOC has similarities when compared to Trump. (We are not talking about policies here.)
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