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#15045971


It's about to be 2016 all over again.

Nick Fuentes fills Milo’s gap

Turning Point USA is under assault — from further right

They’re being called the Groypers — named after Pepe the Frog’s more sinister, overweight toad cousin — and they’re making life hell for Charlie Kirk and his campus conservative organization Turning Point USA.

Following eyebrow-raising comments from Kirk recently that have been interpreted as elevating Israel above the United States, advocating automatic green cards for foreign exchange students, and one incident where a TPUSA leader was terminated after she posed in a group photograph with ‘fringe’ figures, the Groypers, led by 22-year-old shitlord Nick Fuentes, have been infiltrating TPUSA events to launch a barrage of uncomfortable questions at Kirk. In some instances, they’ve managed to dominate the entire Q and A portion of events, as Kirk squirms on stage.


This campaign of terror peaked Tuesday night at Ohio State, where Kirk was joined on stage by TPUSA ambassador Rob Smith, a gay, black, Iraq war veteran who, since leaving the Democrat party just last year has been a fixture on Fox News and the campus speaking circuit. Smith, or rather TPUSA’s open embrace of homosexuality, got the brunt of the attack at Ohio.

‘You’ve advocated on behalf of accepting homosexuality, accepting homosexual acts as normative in the conservative movement, how does anal sex help us win the culture war?’ one rosary-clutching, Fuentes plant asked.

It was a stunning moment and something I, as a gay man with right-wing views, have been desperate for someone to ask. Many lifelong conservatives have watched politely as a new class of people have been anointed their national spokespersons simply because they were ex-Democrats who ticked a certain identity box. I hope I do not fall into this category somewhere. Yet often these people, and I’m not talking about Rob, propped up as the second coming of William F. Buckley, turn out to be incurious morons who couldn’t tell Burke from Beyonce. They don’t truly understand conservatism. All they know is the left is bad and lies a lot, and they’ve built careers on this not exactly groundbreaking concept. The whole thing comes off as defensive posturing: if the left says we are racists and homophobes we must hand the spotlight over to our blacks and gays.

Smith took the mic, rattling and unprepared. He lauded America’s exceptionalism and the contributions gay men and lesbians make to society. But for an event titled ‘Culture War,’ his response seemed to only validate the perception that TPUSA is out-of-touch and not, in fact, comprised of cultural warriors. The correct response to that question, from a homosexual, should have been something like, ‘But, honey, without us your women would have awful hair.’


Fuentes and some of his followers, though certainly not all, could be said to legitimately hold far-right views on ‘white identity’, ethno-nationalism, and Christian morality. While many of the questions asked were tough, challenging, and highly engaging, there was an undeniable strain of authoritarianism weaved underneath. It was enthralling and slightly chilling. But by no means were all of their questions about race. Some were legitimate policy inquiries. Kirk dodged those, too.

This is happening for two reasons. First, the left is no longer an interesting or formidable foe. The culture war issues that sent Trump to the White House in 2016 are old hat to dissident right-wingers who live on the internet. That was a millennial war and now the zoomers are ascending. Those with a knack for sensing the mood of the nation and predicting the direction culture will go — a club, by the way, devoid of anyone on the left or in media — watch the left’s continued narrow-sighted, cannibalistic spiral of madness with increasing boredom, whether it’s Russiagate, impeachment, or boycotting a Chick-fil-A.

Once you’ve figured out the left, and have successfully stood up to them and survived, they become less worthy of your mental energy.

Conservatism, Inc does not understand this. They deliver talking points very well, but that’s about it. Still, they were aloof, or cocky, enough to title their campus tour ‘culture war,’ and didn’t think some people might cringe whenever they took stage firing t-shirts from a cannon while dressed in a J.Crew blazer, loafers, and Ray-Bans. Because, when all’s said and done, they’re corny and unconvincing. Even Turning Point’s own members are abandoning it: Twitter was awash yesterday with resignations, including two chapter presidents, one from Drexel University and the other from Kansas. And even Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin retweeted the resignation statements. So it’s not just the dark underbelly of the internet waiting to see Kirk stumble.


Let’s face it, they’re as dorky as the Never-Trumpers, only younger. And yet, many see them as snatching the baton and appointing themselves the guardians of 2016’s spoils. I sincerely have no beef with Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk, or anyone affiliated with that organization. They do decent work and all seem like nice, hard-working people. But as far as in-fighting goes, where liberals stifle and suffocate, conservatives brawl. And the celebratory reaction to Tuesday night’s spectacle from mainline Trump supporters who have zero tendencies toward ethno-nationalism proves what I’ve suspected for a while: there’s a feeling among anti-establishment conservatives that their self-appointed leaders have grown lazy and take their support for granted, if not downright insult their intelligence by robo-tweeting the same blanket statements about liberal corruption or America First, day in and day out, for three years. It never occurred to these cultural war generals to evolve, that people may be thirsty for depth, more philosophy, Christianity, or just quality entertainment.

Following Tuesday night’s melee, Rob Smith (whom I know personally, and like) stirred even more ire when he took to Twitter to claim the event had been infiltrated by neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Other conservatives with blue check marks but not affiliated with TPUSA echoed this. While I don’t understand the obsession some on the right have with Israel — pro or con, despite personally falling in the pro-camp — and I glaze over at any mention of ‘white identity,’ if the embarrassment on stage didn’t do it, those tweets may have been the death of Turning Point. The media’s treatment of Covington Catholic student Nicholas Sandmann is still fresh for Trumpers. How could anyone, especially supposed leaders of the culture war, label young men in MAGA hats as Nazis, carelessly deploying the same empty, meaningless insults the left uses to destroy lives? No one has forgotten that Kirk condemned the Covington boys before he praised them.

If the energy behind the Groyper insurgency has you worried about an actual rising tide of ethno-nationalism, Facebook and Twitter are to blame. Silicon Valley censorship created Nick Fuentes. The true culture warriors on the right, save for the president himself, were silenced by Big Tech when it became clear how beloved and effective they were. Love them or hate them, the likes of Alex Jones, Gavin McInnes, Roger Stone, and Milo Yiannopoulos built large followings of young right-wing men. They could be mean, offensive, shocking, and totally bonkers but they weren’t consciously steering their audience towards ethno-nationalism. They also understood and listened to their audience better than anyone else in living memory in the conservative movement.

Their un-personing left a gigantic void in the national discourse that Conservatism, Inc, ill-equipped, rushed in to fill. These new interlopers lack the talent, insight, intelligence, and grit of the Banned. (Full disclosure, I also personally know Yiannopoulos and McInnes and have worked with them before). It also created the opportunity for extremely self-confident zoomer Fuentes to rise up and give a contrarian, challenging voice against the new, unelected face of Trumpism. Had the aforementioned provocateurs never been banned, Turning Point would be in no one’s crosshairs, but just another, milder delegation sitting under the big tent. No one would have heard of Nick Fuentes.
#15047537
The mainstream right has gotten large/popular/'reasonable' enough that they no longer need to placate an extreme element of theirs (one that is generally steadfast and reliable) so that element is throwing a hissy-fit. Perhaps Conservatism can rise again and replace/suppress the reactionary part of the right wing.
#15047593
Thunderhawk wrote:The mainstream right has gotten large/popular/'reasonable' enough that they no longer need to placate an extreme element of theirs (one that is generally steadfast and reliable) so that element is throwing a hissy-fit.


What do you think that TPUSA, Rep. Dan Crenshaw, and Ben Shapiro are trying to do here?

They are using the leftist tactics of refusing to debate or discuss issues with anyone they disagree with while engaging in namecalling.

They are also attempting to keep them out of open public forums and they happen to get it to these events, they are pushed to the side while they address liberals and milquetoast conservatives.

Most of them are doing this all white pretending to be defenders of free speech and championing open dialogue .

Thunderhawk wrote:Perhaps Conservatism can rise again and replace/suppress the reactionary part of the right wing.


How do you think corporate Conservatism should address these young reactionaries? Rep. Crenshaw appears to be issuing thinly veiled threats to his opposition.

Ben Shapiro gave a Hillary Clinton-esque basket of deplorable-styled speech denouncing Nick Fuentes without addressing him by name.

A good point was made by Fuentes that Shapiro has a huge online presence, hundreds of thousands of YouTube and Twitter followers, yet he feels the need to go after relatively small YouTubers like Fuentes who have significantly less followers.

Here's Shapiro's speech without Fuentes - Ben Shapiro Speaking at Stanford University

#15047612
The divide in the Right is interesting: the general melee of non-atheist but secular conservatism (with its own progressive/traditional divisions) vs various ethnic/religious/identity groups. When Ben Shapiro makes non-identity arguments he is worth my time. When he makes personal attacks, or when other make such attack at him, I have no interest, and thus I'm not going to spend an hour watching that video.
#15047613
Conservativism is not longer really part of the right wing. Most actual Conservatives are labeled Liberals, in this political climate, because they aren't right-wing, or reactionary enough. You can see it quite clearly on here, where reactionaries label actual conservatives Libtards, Rinos, and such. eg. Drlee, a Conservative republic, is always labeled a left-winger by all the "Dissident Rights" on this forum.

Note: Trump is not a Conservative, but he is a right-wing reactionary.
#15047768
Thunderhawk wrote:The divide in the Right is interesting: the general melee of non-atheist but secular conservatism (with its own progressive/traditional divisions) vs various ethnic/religious/identity groups.


That's a good way to look at this conflict, except for Charlie Kirk maintains that he is a Christian, and obviously Shapiro is a religious Jew.

Well TPUSA, Don Jr. and his useless annoying girlfriend got blasted at their UCLA event. The youth are rejecting these useless conservatives who do nothing but adopt liberal talking points from 5 years ago while they concede more to the left every year.

It's a real bad look when you are the son of the president who ran on "America First," get booed off the stage for not being America First.



^^^I thought we shouldn't do identity politics.





Charlie Kirk Booed Off Stage — Rejects “America First” Questions

Charlie Kirk of TPUSA was booed off of stage at his own speaking event today by a disappointed crowd of America First patriots who were denied the opportunity to ask questions to Kirk and Don Jr.

Chants of “Q & A” rang out at the Turning Point USA event at UCLA as the speakers shifted in their seats. Unable to face an increasingly agitated crowd of Trump voters denied their opportunity to have their voices heard, the speakers retreated as the speaking event was abruptly ended only 30 minutes after it had began.

Earlier TPUSA speaking events have been host to a barrage of uncomfortable questions posed by normal, working-class Americans who are concerned with the direction of the Conservative establishment and it’s blatant disregard for the worrying trends of increased immigration, foreign spending & wars in the Middle East.

“America First” the growing platform of American Christian Conservatives spearheaded by rising political orator Nicholas J Fuentes, has apparently been blacklisted by the conservative establishment as their questions are no longer allowed to be heard. An open refusal to answer a fair question is an admission to the questions validity…

Campus Conservatives are abandoning the million dollar operation known as TPUSA en-masse and migrating over to the growing energetic, fun and brutally intellectual America First movement. If the Donald Trump administration, his family and their donors have any sense about them at all, they might want to reconsider their relationship with TPUSA and exchange it with the REAL movement of campus Conservatives… AMERICA FIRST!!!


#15047861
maz wrote:That's a good way to look at this conflict, except for Charlie Kirk maintains that he is a Christian, and obviously Shapiro is a religious Jew.

Shapiro points out he is a Jew when he is insulted/attacked as a Fundamentalist/Nazi/Fascist /-apologist. When he is decried as not religious enough, he points out he is Orthodox and that he acts out his faith in his private life. Otherwise his arguments are Conservative and secular. The arguments are -generally- good for his faith, I think that is why he makes them, but those arguments are also good for most groups who wish to co-exist. I didn't know of Charlie Kirk, but from the text you've put up and some quick googling it sounds like he is pro-Christian and everything else is to be second class, removed or destroyed.
There is no "except" here. It is a fundamental distinction within the right - non-atheist but Secular nation vs specific-Religion nation.
#15048977
Godstud wrote:Conservativism is not longer really part of the right wing. Most actual Conservatives are labeled Liberals, in this political climate, because they aren't right-wing, or reactionary enough. You can see it quite clearly on here, where reactionaries label actual conservatives Libtards, Rinos, and such. eg. Drlee, a Conservative republic, is always labeled a left-winger by all the "Dissident Rights" on this forum.


Many of of the positions of today's conservatives are simply the positions of liberals from 10 years ago. How many conservatives today would be against same sex marriage like Obama and Clinton were 10 years ago?



Anti-Israel activist Ryan Dawson explains "white nationalism" from a leftist point of view.

#15050065
Thunderhawk wrote:I didn't know of Charlie Kirk, but from the text you've put up and some quick googling it sounds like he is pro-Christian and everything else is to be second class, removed or destroyed.


Charlie Kirk is your standard astroturf grifter. His job is to tell rich old conservatives that the youth are *totally* down with their pro-rich Boomer economic views. All he needs is their money so that the silent conservative majorities which exist on every campus can finally have a group to rally around in TPUSA.

It turns out only the dumbest college students are into that (such as the Kent State Diaper Girl), and that TPUSA's target demo is the old, rich, white men who fund them. Here's some interesting ad analytics from the Spectator (more examples in the article):

Image

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TPUSA is a business designed to siphon money from rich old Boomers who are conned into thinking that college students are yearning for awesome memes that will help them embrace economic policies which benefit rich old white men. Charlie Kirk is a standard astroturf grifter, Nick Fuentes is a nazi working the same hate grift we've seen before.

The author of Maz's article also appears to be a moron. He blames the appearance of Nick Fuentes on ~the left~ because apparently social media platforms deplatforming people who blatantly break their rules is cultural marxism or some dumb shit. Apparently, if Milo, McInnes, Jones, etc. were still around we would have sensible, moderate, and respectable hate grifters instead of out and out nazi trolls like Fuentes. This ignores the fact that a young Fuentes would have been part of the Milo, Jones, & McInnes target demo, and his out and out naziism is the logical conclusion of their views.

The right wing hate grift requires constant pushing toward further extremes. Liberals, blacks, transpeople, female gaming journalists, etc. are a constant threat to the very existence of Western culture in a neverending struggle to own da libz (who are simultaneously weak, but also tearing society apart because they control everything). Fuentes is just picking up the torch and following their grift to its logical end: ethnic and moral purity enacted by an authoritarian government.

In short, the author of Maz's Spectator article is an idiot. Charlie Kirk is a conman trying to defend his grift, since donors will be less willing to give money to an explicitly racist organization. Fuentes is a nazi troll attacking Kirk to boost his own profile. TPUSA can't be repurposed into a powerful nazi political organization, because its only purpose is to grift money from rich old Boomers. TPUSA isn't an actual meaningful force on any campus, and it's not meant to be.

The difference between Kirk and Fuentes is that Kirk has found a way to monetize his grift. Fuentes can't do the same with his gaggle of 4chan trolls awkwardly stuttering questions into microphones. They both punch far above their weight in terms of visibility, but have no actual power to influence politics in any meaningful way. Of the two, Fuentes is far more likely to inspire some lone wolf shootings because that's the logical conclusion to his beliefs.

It should be obvious to anyone who has posted here which side Maz supports, and I encourage Maz to seek therapy if he finds his thoughts turning violent. Sure, maybe a life devoted to consuming racist 4chan memes isn't a good or meaningful life, but it's better than dying in a hail of police gunfire.
#15050106
It is actually pretty funny to see all of these neo-con conservatives and neo-liberals making such a fuss over a tiny little man gaming and livestreaming from his mommy's basement.

At first they didn't want to report on him but they he got too big until they were forced to cover him. Now they won't shut up about him :lol:

Fuentes might not have any power to affect politics but you'd never know it based on the reactions of pro-immigration fake conservatives and pro-Israelfirst groups on Twitter. They have been exposed to be so weak, cowardly and without convictions, that they can't even handle a few 4chan trolls awkwardly stuttering questions into microphones without screaming for it all to be shut down.

Basically, the premise of this article is that we can't have an serious conversations about immigration policy, changing demographics or foreign policy ever, because some guy livestreaming and gaming in his mommy's basement once made a joke about six million and gas chambers.

Just What Does a Guy Have to Say to Be Considered Beyond the Pale?

Politics, in the form of turning ideas into legislation and getting them passed into law, requires building coalitions and attracting allies. Inevitably, the process is going to require at least a temporarily alliance with someone you don’t agree with all that much.

We’re all going to have our own internal “red line” of when somebody’s beyond the pale in their views or ideology — too radical, too extreme, too horrible, hateful, a repugnant human being who we don’t wish to be associated with in politics or any other venue. The odds are good we’ve all had some experience where somebody we initially thought we knew and liked turned out to be a bit of a nut or worse. And it’s understandable that different people will have different notions about where that line of acceptable allies is to be drawn.

What I can’t quite understand is why any conservative would give the benefit of the doubt to somebody like Nick Fuentes, who makes jokes comparing the Holocaust to Cookie Monster baking cookies, or scoffs that segregation was no big deal, or fumed that those who work for Jews are “race traitors,” or yearned for young people to march under Mussolini banners. These examples don’t strike me as a close call or an isolated incident or a momentary lapse in judgment. Benny Johnson assembled these examples and more, each with video, here.

If you want to advance a policy — whether it’s secure borders, lower taxes, fewer abortions, or anything else — then you can’t let it get mixed up with lunatic notions like Holocaust denial, pro-segregation, the idea that people owe loyalty to their own race, or the odes to the upside of fascism. The first reason we can’t do that is because these are all terrible and morally abhorrent ideas. But the second reason is because the overwhelming majority of the American people will instantly recoil from anything and anyone remotely associated with those lunatic notions. Welcoming fascist segregationist Holocaust doubters to your side in a debate is embracing defeat with open arms.

The fact that someone like Michelle Malkin — a figure once widely respected, even beloved amongst conservatives — insists upon seeing Nick Fuentes as simply an activist against open borders, and does not see any of Fuentes’ above remarks as sufficient reason to no longer see him as an ally, is deeply troubling.
#15050120
I haven't seen it reported anywhere else besides people who specifically report on right wing media but OK Maz. We get it. You're happy a nazi is in the news again like your hero Richard Spencer.

These kinds of grifts tend to burn themselves out, since they're predicated on constantly pushing the envelope. Alex Jones with his Sandy Hook conspiracy + getting in Jack Dorsey's face. Milo saying pedophilia is cool and good. McInnes starting a street gang.

Fuentes is starting at Holocaust denial with "If you had 11 ovens making cookies nonstop for four years, could you really bake six million cookies?" So while he's in the news now, his grift is already starting close to the end of the natural lifecycle for right wing trolling. He's starting with 4chan trolls and will be relegated to that circle, so his floor is also his ceiling.

Kirk is an absolute moron but was connected enough to get in touch with the right wing donor class and go with the faux-activism/young person repeating old people's views path, which makes his grift more viable.

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