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By late
#15050263
Trump has betrayed the country, dozens of times.

Even worse, every bad actor on the planet knows he can be bribed. And it's cheap, all NK had to give him was a photo op. It cost the Saudi a billion or two, but to them, that's chump change. We've betrayed our allies a number of times, in a number of ways. Just coincidentally most of it is music to Putin's ears. You know what FDR said about coincidence in politics? It's not coincidence.

But it's not happening just outside the country, as nightmarish as that is. His tax cut will do us long term damage, and nearly all of it went to rich people like him. Especially him.

DeVos is betraying our kids. He will keep trying to kill people by killing Obamacare. He betrayed the very core of our values by throwing tens of thousands of children in prison, often causing them severe psychological damage. There's lots more, but I am feeling nauseous.

Republicans have long had the best propaganda in human history. I've known about since it started in the 1980s. But I often underestimate the damage it can cause. You can see it in the polls. The lies, the "false narrative" is working. Lindsey is about to do another Bhengazi style smear about it in the Senate. The normal process, the learning that happened in Watergate, for example; has been distrupted.

Which is yet another betrayal that will one day have severe consequences for the country.

If you add it all up, Republicans act like the United States of America is a hostile power they must destroy.

This is exactly how a country gets a dictator. It's how Turkey got Erdogan, how Russia got Putin.

But I didn't think it would happen here.
By Rich
#15050268
The Left Democrats, notably the Marx Squad, seek to destroy America as it currently is through, mass immigration, White replacement, gun control, as well as military and moral disarmament in the face of Islamic and Han supremacist aggression. Trump's pretty low down in the betrayal stakes.
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By blackjack21
#15050273
late wrote:And it's cheap, all NK had to give him was a photo op.

A photo op with a fat communist dictator isn't of any value. Why do you think it would be?

late wrote:It cost the Saudi a billion or two, but to them, that's chump change.

A billion or two of what for what?

late wrote:We've betrayed our allies a number of times, in a number of ways.

Which ones and how?

late wrote:His tax cut will do us long term damage, and nearly all of it went to rich people like him.

How will it do damage?

late wrote:He betrayed the very core of our values by throwing tens of thousands of children in prison, often causing them severe psychological damage.

Our values are encoded in our laws. Trump is just enforcing the law.

late wrote:There's lots more, but I am feeling nauseous.

That suggests you are agonizing the 5HT3 receptor. Talk to your doctor about Zofran (odansetron) or perhaps some medical marijuana.

late wrote:Republicans have long had the best propaganda in human history.

Ha ha ha ha. Republicans are virtually retarded when it comes to communications.

late wrote:If you add it all up, Republicans act like the United States of America is a hostile power they must destroy.

Uh huh. Tell me about your feelings of patriotism in your formative years.

Now tell me, do you want to preserve the United States? If so, why?

late wrote:This is exactly how a country gets a dictator. It's how Turkey got Erdogan, how Russia got Putin.

So you think Erdogan wants to destroy Turkey and Putin wants to destroy Russia?

late wrote:But I didn't think it would happen here.

Isn't this emotional dysphoria of yours really more about the fact that impeachment has failed, and yet they are still going to go forward with it to the Senate where it will damage the Democrats more than Trump? Or did you watch the debate and realize the Democrats don't have a snowball's chance in hell in 2020 with their current slate of candidates? Or did you see that Trump's numbers went up?

Sublimation can be kind of tricky.
By late
#15050286
blackjack21 wrote:
Ha ha ha ha. Republicans are virtually retarded when it comes to communications.


So you think Erdogan wants to destroy Turkey and Putin wants to destroy Russia?




The Koch brothers hired the best, not political hacks.

Let's talk about Putin. First, Fiona Hill has written a 500 page book about Putin. She's the best we have on Putin, Russia and Eastern Europe.

Second, Putin was counterintelligence. He still sees the world in that way. He saw his country's economic woes as an attack, not as a failure of the Soviet government, of which he was a part.

What he did was always rational, from his point of view. But the result was to interrupt the countrys economic development in a big way. He had an oil company worth billions sold to a young guy for $17. The kid is rich now, and Putin gets a big cut.
The best way to think of him is as a crime boss. The elections are mostly a sham, he's going to be the ruler for as long as he wants.

Things happen to Russians that oppose him. Those things are often fatal.

The way he got to that point was the undermine democratic processes, and the institutions of government. Every dictator has to neutralise anything that can oppose him. So he undermined the judiciary, and the Rule of Law. Same way Trump is doing right now. That process will continue until there is nothing of any significance to oppose him.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/one-year-after-trumps-election-revisiting-autocracy-rules-for-survival

https://www.amazon.com/Future-History-Totalitarianism-Reclaimed-Russia/dp/1594634548/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=masha+gessen&qid=1574440918&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Putin-Operative-Kremlin-Geopolitics/dp/0815726171/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=fiona+hill&qid=1574441033&sr=8-1
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By Potemkin
#15050427
late wrote:The way he got to that point was the undermine democratic processes, and the institutions of government. Every dictator has to neutralise anything that can oppose him. So he undermined the judiciary, and the Rule of Law. Same way Trump is doing right now. That process will continue until there is nothing of any significance to oppose him.

Trump is no Putin. Seriously, he's not. And the institutions of the USA are far more robust than the institutions of the Russian Federation were when Putin consolidated his authority. Putin is one of the smartest political operators on the planet, whereas Trump is a bumbling fool who flails around shooting his mouth off whenever there's a crisis (which is almost all the time, given his stupidity, ignorance and general incompetence at, well, everything really). No, you really have nothing to worry about where Trump is concerned. In my view, Hillary Clinton was and is a far greater threat to American democracy and to world peace than Trump ever will be. I really don't understand why you're so obsessed with him.
By Atlantis
#15050429
@late, you view Putin and Russia through the bias of superpower rivalry and the demonisation of Putin by neocon propaganda.

Putin want's (wanted) rapprochement with the West. He even proposed an economic zone from Lisbon to Vladivostok. He even gave logistics support to the US invasion of Afghanistan, right on the doorsteps of Russia.

But Russia is facing an aggressive and expansionist US-led military alliance. When you push somebody, he'll push back. That is a basic law of physics. When the iron curtain fell, Western leaders promised Gorbachev that Nato would not expand East of the river Elbe (Germany) by one inch. Subsequently, Nato bombarded Russian ally Serbia and advanced towards the Russian border. While Russian forces retreated from Eastern Europe without firing a single shot, Nato's East expansion has been relentless. When the US tried to pull Ukraine into Nato, Russia finally had to react. Leaked cables from the US embassy in Warsaw prove that Washington knew that Russia would have to react. The US deliberately provoked the Ukraine conflict, which is the primary obstacle for East/West rapprochement today.

The West cannot impose liberal democracy on countries that have different traditions. It doesn't work in Afghanistan, it doesn't work in Iraq, Syria, Libya and many other countries. Most Russian's today believe that a system of "guided democracy" suits the country best at this stage in history. Russia will reform to become more liberal and less corrupt, if it is allowed to integrate with the West. Setting up Russia as our enemy will prevent that because Putin needs to defend the country's sovereignty against a hostile West.

The problem is US imperialism, not Putin.

Potemkin wrote:In my view, Hillary Clinton was and is a far greater threat to American democracy and to world peace than Trump ever will be. I really don't understand why you're so obsessed with him.


The far-left is doomed because it believes it convenient to suck up to Trump and the populist far-right.

US imperialism is determined not by a person (Trump or Hillary), no, it is determined by a system of government. Get rid of the system of the "imperial presidency" and the "two-party system" and introduce a system of true proportional representation and US imperialism will just disappear into thin air.

Trump is far more dangerous than the neocons because, as Potus, he is wedded to the same imperial policies as his presidency, and, as a madman, he is unpredictable. Unpredictability led to WWI and most other conflicts. Unpredictability in geopolitics is toxic.
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By Patrickov
#15050432
Atlantis wrote:Trump is far more dangerous than the neocons because, as Potus, he is wedded to the same imperial policies as his presidency, and, as a madman, he is unpredictable. Unpredictability led to WWI and most other conflicts. Unpredictability in geopolitics is toxic.


Hmmm... I do not see Trump so unpredictable, at least in the East. He quite consistently jumped on the opportunity to make China the pariah of the World and let us know the Lord is still just (to some extent).

And for the war thing, it is indeed a tough choice between war and suffering Chinese oppression.
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By Potemkin
#15050434
Atlantis wrote:@late, you view Putin and Russia through the bias of superpower rivalry and the demonisation of Putin by neocon propaganda.

Putin want's (wanted) rapprochement with the West. He even proposed an economic zone from Lisbon to Vladivostok. He even gave logistics support to the US invasion of Afghanistan, right on the doorsteps of Russia.

But Russia is facing an aggressive and expansionist US-led military alliance. When you push somebody, he'll push back. That is a basic law of physics. When the iron curtain fell, Western leaders promised Gorbachev that Nato would not expand East of the river Elbe (Germany) by one inch. Subsequently, Nato bombarded Russian ally Serbia and advanced towards the Russian border. While Russian forces retreated from Eastern Europe without firing a single shot, Nato's East expansion has been relentless. When the US tried to pull Ukraine into Nato, Russia finally had to react. Leaked cables from the US embassy in Warsaw prove that Washington knew that Russia would have to react. The US deliberately provoked the Ukraine conflict, which is the primary obstacle for East/West rapprochement today.

The West cannot impose liberal democracy on countries that have different traditions. It doesn't work in Afghanistan, it doesn't work in Iraq, Syria, Libya and many other countries. Most Russian's today believe that a system of "guided democracy" suits the country best at this stage in history. Russia will reform to become more liberal and less corrupt, if it is allowed to integrate with the West. Setting up Russia as our enemy will prevent that because Putin needs to defend the country's sovereignty against a hostile West.

The problem is US imperialism, not Putin.

All of this is absolutely true, and I'm glad at least somebody on PoFo besides myself and annatar1914 can see it. When the Soviet Union collapsed in the early 1990s, the West had an historic opportunity to make Russia an ally rather than an enemy. But instead, the West betrayed the hopes of the Russian people. Never again will they be so naive as to trust the empty promises of the West. Putin's regime was and is the inevitable consequence of that betrayal.


The far-left is doomed because it believes it convenient to suck up to Trump and the populist far-right.

"Suck up to Trump"? I believe I called him a bumbling fool. Lol.

US imperialism is determined not by a person (Trump or Hillary), no, it is determined by a system of government. Get rid of the system of the "imperial presidency" and the "two-party system" and introduce a system of true proportional representation and US imperialism will just disappear into thin air.

Not even that would be sufficient, Atlantis. American (and Anglo) imperialism is driven by the needs of capitalism, which has a voracious appetite for cheap labour, cheap resources, and new markets.

Trump is far more dangerous than the neocons because, as Potus, he is wedded to the same imperial policies as his presidency, and, as a madman, he is unpredictable. Unpredictability led to WWI and most other conflicts. Unpredictability in geopolitics is toxic.

I'm sure the world can survive Donald Trump, Atlantis. :roll:
By late
#15050435
Potemkin wrote:
Trump is no Putin. Seriously, he's not. And the institutions of the USA are far more robust than the institutions of the Russian Federation were when Putin consolidated his authority. Putin is one of the smartest political operators on the planet, whereas Trump is a bumbling fool who flails around shooting his mouth off whenever there's a crisis (which is almost all the time, given his stupidity, ignorance and general incompetence at, well, everything really). No, you really have nothing to worry about where Trump is concerned. In my view, Hillary Clinton was and is a far greater threat to American democracy and to world peace than Trump ever will be. I really don't understand why you're so obsessed with him.



Amusing, trite, silly.

Our last line of defense against Trump is our corrupt election system. Putin is doing a great job of helping him get re-elected. So is Barr, who is behaving like a consigliere, not an AG.

Will it work? I honestly don't know, but after the last presidential election, I am deeply concerned.

The history of such things suggests I should be more worried than I am.
By late
#15050436
Atlantis wrote:
1) @late, you view Putin and Russia through the bias of superpower rivalry and the demonisation of Putin by neocon propaganda.

2) Putin want's (wanted) rapprochement with the West. He even proposed an economic zone from Lisbon to Vladivostok. He even gave logistics support to the US invasion of Afghanistan, right on the doorsteps of Russia.

3) But Russia is facing an aggressive and expansionist US-led military alliance. When you push somebody, he'll push back. That is a basic law of physics. When the iron curtain fell, Western leaders promised Gorbachev that Nato would not expand East of the river Elbe (Germany) by one inch. Subsequently, Nato bombarded Russian ally Serbia and advanced towards the Russian border. While Russian forces retreated from Eastern Europe without firing a single shot, Nato's East expansion has been relentless. When the US tried to pull Ukraine into Nato, Russia finally had to react. Leaked cables from the US embassy in Warsaw prove that Washington knew that Russia would have to react. The US deliberately provoked the Ukraine conflict, which is the primary obstacle for East/West rapprochement today.

4) The West cannot impose liberal democracy on countries that have different traditions. It doesn't work in Afghanistan, it doesn't work in Iraq, Syria, Libya and many other countries. Most Russian's today believe that a system of "guided democracy" suits the country best at this stage in history. Russia will reform to become more liberal and less corrupt, if it is allowed to integrate with the West. Setting up Russia as our enemy will prevent that because Putin needs to defend the country's sovereignty against a hostile West.

5) The problem is US imperialism, not Putin.



6) US imperialism is determined not by a person (Trump or Hillary), no, it is determined by a system of government. Get rid of the system of the "imperial presidency" and the "two-party system" and introduce a system of true proportional representation and US imperialism will just disappear into thin air.

7) Trump is far more dangerous than the neocons because, as Potus, he is wedded to the same imperial policies as his presidency, and, as a madman, he is unpredictable. Unpredictability led to WWI and most other conflicts. Unpredictability in geopolitics is toxic.



1) You are partly correct. But where you are wrong is kinda important. Putin is a revanchist, and the history of fools strongly suggests that can result in disastrous wars.

2) Not after the Magnitsky Act. We can get into this in a lot more detail, if you persist with such foolishness. Putin still thinks like a counterintel agent, and he never embraced the values of the West. The cyberattacks against all those countries is a dead giveaway to his thinking.

3) So that's what Russian propaganda looks like. We can also get into that in greater detail, if you persist. The former Soviet client states mostly wanted to join the West. They were also terrified that Russia would once again conquer them. Their terror was justified.

4) Russia has strong man rule. These days it's usually called autocracy, I prefer the old fashioned term dictator. If you had been talking about Singapore, you'd have a point. But with Russia? Not so much.

5) Both are problems.

6) I like that idea. We are in agreement here, although the odds against it ever happening are 100%.

7) I agree with that, as well.
By Rugoz
#15050458
Potemkin wrote:Trump is no Putin. Seriously, he's not. And the institutions of the USA are far more robust than the institutions of the Russian Federation were when Putin consolidated his authority. Putin is one of the smartest political operators on the planet, whereas Trump is a bumbling fool who flails around shooting his mouth off whenever there's a crisis (which is almost all the time, given his stupidity, ignorance and general incompetence at, well, everything really). No, you really have nothing to worry about where Trump is concerned. In my view, Hillary Clinton was and is a far greater threat to American democracy and to world peace than Trump ever will be. I really don't understand why you're so obsessed with him.


Trump is a threat because he undermines America's institutions, primarily through words but also through actions. His intelligence is hardly relevant as long as so many people believe and support him. Nobody believes Trump will become America's first dictator, but at some point down the line another Trump-like figure might reap the benefits of Trump's destructive behavior.

Hillary Clinton would have been a bog standard American president, she was no threat to American democracy whatsoever. :eh:
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15050459
Rugoz wrote:Trump is a threat because he undermines America's institutions, primarily through words but also through actions. His intelligence is hardly relevant as long as so many people believe and support him. Nobody believes Trump will become America's first dictator, but at some point down the line another Trump-like figure might reap the benefits of Trump's destructive behavior.

Hillary Clinton would have been a bog standard American president, she was no threat to American democracy whatsoever. :eh:

Trump is an incompetent, ignorant buffoon. There is therefore a limit to the amount of damage he can do, both domestically and abroad. Hillary Clinton would have been a highly competent President, particularly with regard to foreign affairs. And that is why I am glad that Trump won that election and Hillary Clinton lost it.
User avatar
By BigSteve
#15050461
Image
By Rugoz
#15050463
Potemkin wrote:Trump is an incompetent, ignorant buffoon. There is therefore a limit to the amount of damage he can do, both domestically and abroad. Hillary Clinton would have been a highly competent President, particularly with regard to foreign affairs. And that is why I am glad that Trump won that election and Hillary Clinton lost it.


Since when does being an "incompetent, ignorant buffoon" put a limit to the amount of damage one can do? Trump supports the Saudis and Israelis like any Republican president before him. He undermines global climate efforts, which is highly relevant for future conflicts. He introduces a zero-sum mentality when it comes to trade, which again gives rise to conflicts. The Iranians might finally get nukes because of him. Where does this "Trump is a peacenik" nonsense come from?

Besides, foreign policy isn't particularly relevant for the future of American democracy.
By Atlantis
#15050479
Rugoz wrote:Besides, foreign policy isn't particularly relevant for the future of American democracy.


Except for this last sentence I very much agree with your comment. However, foreign policy is very relevant to American democracy. The things a country does abroad cannot not have an impact on domestic affairs. We see the very proof in Trump who came to power with the false narrative of having "opposed the Iraq war" and of opposing neocon regime change policies.

I know we disagree about US foreign policies and there is no point in discussing this here; however, there can be no doubt about the fact that foreign policy does have a strong impact on domestic affairs in innumerable ways. One way is the need to have an "imperial presidency" and the "two party system" to facilitate foreign interventions. This is polarizing domestic policies in the US just like the two-party system in the UK is polarizing UK politics.

Potemkin wrote:Trump is an incompetent, ignorant buffoon. There is therefore a limit to the amount of damage he can do, both domestically and abroad. Hillary Clinton would have been a highly competent President, particularly with regard to foreign affairs. And that is why I am glad that Trump won that election and Hillary Clinton lost it.


We are in agreement in that Trump undermines US imperialism. That is the positive aspect I have emphasized for the last 3 years; however, due to his unpredictability he is a greater danger to world peace than Hillary would have been, as Rugoz explained correctly. Moreover, since he empowers right-wing populism and climate change deniers world wide, he effectively prevents needed measures in the fight against climate change. Even without the deniers, it is very difficult to arrive at a global consensus to fight climate change. That the greatest polluter sabotages that effort and empowers deniers worldwide, makes a global consensus effectively impossible. That is not a small matter.

@late,

1) As I described above, nobody is inherently bad or good. Putin's conduct is dictated by external events. By arbitrarily deciding that "Putin is a revanchist" (because he doesn't bow to US neocon ambitions) you make politics (ie. compromise) impossible. Your only option left is war. Because the man you see as your enemy is inherently evil in your eyes. That is a very naive (and American) vision of global affairs. American exceptionalism doesn't allow for compromise. You bow to Uncle Sam or you are dead. In that, Trump is the culmination and the quintessence of the American way in that he has reduced the foreign service to his yes-men because there is no need for diplomacy. Trump will bomb or impose sanctions to make his point. No more need for diplomacy.

2) The same as for 1) above. The caricature you paint of Putin is your strawman. Russia's attempt to adopt Western values in the post-SU period ended in total catastrophe for the country because Russia is not the US, just like Iraq is not Switzerland. Putin corrected some of the mistake made by Yeltsin who let Western and Russian oligarchs rob Russia.

Moreover, you completely ignore the substance of what I wrote. The former German chancellor Helmut Schmidt said that "the object of foreign policy is not to export our values, the object of foreign policy is to achieve peace and stability." Since time immemorial (as testified by the Epic of Gilgamesh), powers have used their "values" as pretext for foreign conquest. Before it was the gods, Christianity, Islam, etc., in today's secular West, it is "Western values". The aim is the same: killing and looting. This is blindingly obvious because the US which pretends to defend Western values in its foreign wars, has abandoned these same values. And how the World has changed in the last 20 years! During the 1st Gulf war, the West was adamant that "it wasn't about the oil" Today, Trump just dumps his loyal Kurdish allies to ethnic cleansing and to be slaughtered by Turkish-led Jihadist, while keeping US troops in Syria in violation of international law with the express purpose of "taking the oil". Where are your values now?

US plutocracy is only vaguely reminiscent of democracy and the US administration which approves of torture and rejects the right to asylum and international law is the greatest danger to democracy, the rule of law and human rights worldwide.

Russian propaganda or foreign interference are totally insignificant in comparison Western propaganda or foreign interference. Everybody not blinded by neocon propaganda can easily see that you have double standards.

Frankly, at this stage Russia is the lesser evil.

And again, as I said above, it's totally irrelevant what Putin or anybody intends, or what you impute Putin to intend. The dynamics of geopolitics cannot be controlled by anybody. Russia's only hope is to integrate with the West. Putin knows that. But Russia is still a military superpower and Putin will not crawl on the floor to suck Donald's dick, like Monica Zelensky. Obama made a great mistake by gratuitously trying to humiliate Russia. That was so totally unnecessary and shows that Americans, even at the highest level, have no idea about foreign affairs. That is the great tragedy.

Patrickov wrote:And for the war thing, it is indeed a tough choice between war and suffering Chinese oppression.


You are the ideal victim for Uncle Sam in search of the next proxy war. Why don't you go the Syria and see if it is really that what you want. It is possible to learn from history.
By late
#15050485
Atlantis wrote:
@late,

As I described above, nobody is inherently bad or good. Putin's conduct is dictated by external events. By arbitrarily deciding that "Putin is a revanchist" (because he doesn't bow to US neocon ambitions) you make politics (ie. compromise) impossible. Your only option left is war. Because the man you see as your enemy is inherently evil in your eyes. That is a very naive (and American) vision of global affairs. American exceptionalism doesn't allow for compromise. You bow to Uncle Sam or you are dead. In that, Trump is the culmination and the quintessence of the American way in that he has reduced the foreign service to his yes-men because there is no need for diplomacy. Trump will bomb or impose sanctions to make his point. No more need for diplomacy.

Putin corrected some of the mistake made by Yeltsin who let Western and Russian oligarchs rob Russia.

Moreover, you completely ignore the substance of what I wrote. The former German chancellor Helmut Schmidt said that "the object of foreign policy is not to export our values, the object of foreign policy is to achieve peace and stability."
US plutocracy is only vaguely reminiscent of democracy and the US administration which approves of torture and rejects the right to asylum and international law is the greatest danger to democracy, the rule of law and human rights worldwide.

Russian propaganda or foreign interference are totally insignificant in comparison Western propaganda or foreign interference. Everybody not blinded by neocon propaganda can easily see that you have double standards.

Frankly, at this stage Russia is the lesser evil.

And again, as I said above, it's totally irrelevant what Putin or anybody intends, or what you impute Putin to intend. The dynamics of geopolitics cannot be controlled by anybody. Russia's only hope is to integrate with the West. Putin knows that. But Russia is still a military superpower and Putin will not crawl on the floor to suck Donald's dick, like Monica Zelensky. Obama made a great mistake by gratuitously trying to humiliate Russia. That was so totally unnecessary and shows that Americans, even at the highest level, have no idea about foreign affairs. That is the great tragedy.



You are the ideal victim for Uncle Sam in search of the next proxy war. Why don't you go the Syria and see if it is really that what you want. It is possible to learn from history.



Putin is a revanchist because he's trying to put the gang back together. Historically, that most always ends badly.

We deal with Russia with sanctions, not war. That was an odd comment. Putin is a lot like a crime boss. When things get hot, he sends the thugs in trouble out of the country. He does a lot of business under the table, and the sanctions bite deeply into both.

I don't see him as evil, I do see his actions as bringing the West a lot closer to war.

We need diplomacy bad right now. But it will take a generation to bring State back from Trump doing Putin's bidding.

Capitalism requires capital. When a country is turning itself into a capitalist economy that usually gets ugly. Putin had ambitions, and used business as a piggy bank he could use to fund his international ambitions. The Soviet system had made a real mess of the place. Neither was our fault.

We can go over this in more detail, if you want.

But it won't change my mind. In the 1980s, a bow tie wearing conservative pundit said Russian culture and history would give the country another strong man ruler. I disagreed, and I wuz wrong.

Now that we have him, and he is attacking us (and most of the rest of the West) we have to deal with that.
By Atlantis
#15050501
late wrote:We can go over this in more detail, if you want.

But it won't change my mind.


:lol:

Yes Donald, that is what we have understood.

Putin Trump is a lot like a crime boss. When things get hot, he sends the thugs in trouble out of the country. He does a lot of business under the table,


There, corrected that for you! Donald does have these lapses in his speech, like when he said "I do want corruption, always" on Fox News. But I should have thought it wouldn't happen at your age so much :p
User avatar
By Patrickov
#15050519
Atlantis wrote:
You are the ideal victim for Uncle Sam in search of the next proxy war. Why don't you go the Syria and see if it is really that what you want. It is possible to learn from history.


What a proxy war brings is just a puppet government. I want at least direct Western suzerainty, like the way it was before 1997.

P. S. Those areas mentioned by this Honourable Gentleman are fundamentally complicated, not least by their race. Hong Kong is a well-developed and essentially single-race city, even more so than likes of Singapore.
By late
#15050560
Atlantis wrote:
Putin/Trump is a lot like a crime boss. When things get hot, he sends the thugs in trouble out of the country. He does a lot of business under the table..



That's pretty much what I've been saying. It was clear before he got elected that he wanted to be like Putin or Erdogan. It's not just what he says.

That type of personality type gives itself away in a number of small ways. Any student of history would take one look at his place in NYC and say 'dictator chic'. You could start with the Sun King, Louis the 14th of the Rennaisance, all the way up to Putin. They love tacky and grandiose.

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