Why is it OK for IMF economist's predictions to be lies? Greece would be better off had it left EU. - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15050932
Another blog post by Dr. Bill Mitchell, a core MMTer.
Link
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=43739

In this post he shows what the IMF predicted at the time,
what happened since,
what would have happened if Greece left the EZ or EU {using the IMF's own assumptions which are very poor ones and very unlikely to have been true},
what would the current labor force be now had it not been reduced by workers leaving Greece to find work across the EU,
what the IMF guy says now {which contradicts what he wrote back then, so he lied then},
thereby proving that Greece could not be any worse off now if it had left the EU.

The IMF now *admits* that Greece will not get back to its GDP level of 2008 until 2031 or later. The IMF had predicted 'by 2017' it would.

So, I ask just why is it OK for the economists at the IMF to have told lies back then about Greece if it accepted the deal and if it rejected the deal and left the EU?
Why are such people not shunned by everyone?
Thousands have died because of his lies and several hundreds of thousands have had to flee Greece to find work to live because of his lies. This destroys communities and splits families.
#15050951
Well, why is it acceptable ? Its of course not acceptable. We just cant do anything about it.

And everyone who wanted to know already knew. Its not that hard. Its how we keep undeveloped countries undeveloped, after all. Put them into debt, then force them to apply austerity so their economy can never recover. Its a very, very old trick, I think it was developed in the 1960s ? Thats how the IMF has ruined countries ever since. Thats how the IMF, for the naive outsider, and probably even many naive insiders, appears as a goody two shoes, while actually being one of the worst forces of evil.

Its not acceptable, but there wont be repercussions. As with any evil act done in the interest of the rich and powerful.

For example, has any lie that started a war ever ended up with repercussions ? If you're really, really, REALLY lucky, the culprit will actually say sorry, such as Powell did. Thats all you'll ever get.

Or has anything happened to the people who did torture for the Bush jr administration ? Why yes, one of them leads now the CIA. A fate that would be the stuff of horrors for many people, though I strongly doubt for that person.


And for the record, Greece never had the actual option to leave the EU. The reason is that Greece depends upon other countries to generate sufficient food for their population.

Thus they cannot just recreate their own currency. If Greece is weighted down with foreign debt, it would be worthless, thus they couldnt feed their people.

If you can feed your own population, you can isolate yourself with such a move. Some countries, such as IIRC Argentinia, have done that in the past. But it never was an option for Greece.
#15050957
Steve_American wrote:

So, I ask just why is it OK for the economists at the IMF to have told lies back then about Greece if it accepted the deal and if it rejected the deal and left the EU?



The IMF has problems. It was in trouble a couple years ago, it would have been better to let it die.

This is a very old story. Germany has been calling the shots, and they have the EU set up to benefit them. Eventually most of the debt will be written down. But, as has happened in the past, it will take time to accept the inevitable.

In an ideal world the IMF would fall on it's sword. But the last thing the IMF is; is a product of an ideal world.
#15051187
@Negotiator,
Well, that is often said, but it's just not true. Greece can and does feed itself, quite well. Like the rest of Europe, Greece is one of the most food secure nations in the world. In 2015 according to the Economist’s Food Security Index it was #21 in the world – and they noted their experts factored the possibility of Grexit into their calculations. Their food trade was basically balanced, with the tendency of exporting raw foodstuffs and importing processed products. For food security, that’s better than the other way around.
#15051191
Negotiator wrote:Well, why is it acceptable ? Its of course not acceptable. We just cant do anything about it.

And everyone who wanted to know already knew. Its not that hard. Its how we keep undeveloped countries undeveloped, after all. Put them into debt, then force them to apply austerity so their economy can never recover. Its a very, very old trick, I think it was developed in the 1960s ? Thats how the IMF has ruined countries ever since. Thats how the IMF, for the naive outsider, and probably even many naive insiders, appears as a goody two shoes, while actually being one of the worst forces of evil.

That's a filthy Marxist lie. There was no attempt to keep Greece undeveloped.

Are the Jews of Israel and their lackey's around the world trying to keep Syria and Iran undeveloped and to strangle the Russian economy. Yes most definitely, but as general rule no one is trying to make countries undeveloped. Now western people and western interest groups may support polices for selfish reasons or from bad economic theory, but a general rule hindering economic development is never the motivation for policies.

Greece governments wanted to borrow, so they could spend beyond their means and garner easy short term popularity. No one forced them to borrow. In fact the Germany government in particular tried to discourage excessive borrowing and enforce fiscal discipline. and no one forced Greek voters to keep putting these profligate politicians into office. I supported a European superstate, but opposed the Euro as a common currency should have a common government with the high levels of wealth transfer from poorer to rich regions that goes with a unified state.

Greek politicians liked the low borrowing costs that the Euro supported and of course banks were happy to make bigger loans under the security of the Euro. When the crisis hit the Greek government were very happy to continue to receive yet more wealth transfers. The German government and others were happy to use the cover of aid to Greece to get the bad debts off their banks balance sheets and on to the national debt. opposing the Euro once the crisis hit was too late. I'm a strong British Remainer, but not only did I oppose us joining the Euro, I opposed us joining the ERM before it.

For example, has any lie that started a war ever ended up with repercussions ? If you're really, really, REALLY lucky, the culprit will actually say sorry, such as Powell did. Thats all you'll ever get.

The 2003 war to remove Saddam was a glorious righteous war that brought majority rule to Iraq. opposition to that invasion was wicked. The conflict since has been from Sunni Arab Muslim fascist terrorists that think they have a God given right to rule. The more of them that we exterminate from this over crowded planet the better. Sunni Muslim terrorists and those that support them forfeit their right to live. The big mistake with Iraq was not going on to invade Saudi Arabia and giving self determination to the Shia majority in Eastern province.
#15051197
Rich wrote:
That's a filthy Marxist lie.





I wish, it's true. If you are an intellectual, one of the constants is every couple of years some idealistic kid that went to work for the IMF (or one of our aid programs) quits and writes an expose about all the abuses he saw. We've sent tractors to rice paddies... A couple years ago, an African country had been in drought for years, and we sent them a lot of food aid. Most of their farmers had gone out of business. They had a bumper crop of lentils that year. So what we send them? Lots and lots of lentils. That made the price go down, and put more farmers out of business. It's a racket, and a nasty one.

Sorry, but the rest was too silly to bother with. What I did talk about is not well known, and deserves comment.

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