Bernie's College Loan Debt/College For All Ideas... - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

All general discussion about politics that doesn't belong in any of the other forums.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

#15055283
On the surface, golly, what a swell idea! Let's absolve student debt across the board!

The amount of student debt in this country is over $1.5 trillion. Someone loaned out that much money to people who agreed to pay it back. Nobody put a gun to anybody's head to take on that debt. The entities who are owed that $1.5 trillion have every right to expect to have it paid back to them.

So, my question with regards to this: How is it okay to simply tell people they don't have to repay the debts they willingly accepted? Will the entities which loaned that money receive satisfaction from the government? If so, where's that money coming from?

As for free college for all, it too sounds like a great idea. But someone's going to have to pay someone for it. Teachers and professors don't work for free, and if there's no money coming in from tuition, it stands to reason that the institution's loss of revenue is going to have adverse effects.

Also, then, is the question of who will get free tuition. What if I want to go back to school to get my horticulture degree (not sure if such a thing even exists, but work with me). I'm 57 years old, but I shouldn't be held at a disadvantage if I want to attend college. If some kid straight out of high school gets to go to college for nothing, shouldn't I be able to, as well?

And what of benefits under the G.I. Bill? Would Sanders do away with those? Most folks who use the G.I. Bill don't attend private universities. If a Veteran wants to go to college, will he lose his benefits because he can now go to school for free?

I very well may be over-simplifying all of this, but these are questions I can't say I've ever seen addressed...
#15055286
I don't completely disagree.

On the so called Bankruptcy Reform Act, Republicans made it so you couldn't discharge college loan debt through bankruptcy. Bankruptcy judges and academics vehemently opposed it, but these days it's all about greasing palms. So the bankers got everything they wanted.

Few people are so naive as to think Bernie would get all of that..

But reform is desperately needed, we need to undo some of the things Republicans have done.

In regards to free college, the situation has been messed up for a very long time. While I don't want free college for all, providing generous support to students of modest means for STEM degrees makes a lot of sense.
#15055291
late wrote:I don't completely disagree.

On the so called Bankruptcy Reform Act, Republicans made it so you couldn't discharge college loan debt through bankruptcy. Bankruptcy judges and academics vehemently opposed it, but these days it's all about greasing palms. So the bankers got everything they wanted.

Few people are so naive as to think Bernie would get all of that..

But reform is desperately needed, we need to undo some of the things Republicans have done.

In regards to free college, the situation has been messed up for a very long time. While I don't want free college for all, providing generous support to students of modest means for STEM degrees makes a lot of sense.


How did the Republicans force people to assume $1.5 trillion in college loan debt?

As for people being naive about believing Bernie would get all of that, the important thing to remember is that's exactly what he's running on. Just as those who were voting for Trump were told it was stupid to believe he could build a wall, isn't it equally stupid, then, for someone to believe Sanders promise of free college and tuition forgiveness?

I dunno'. It makes no sense. At 57 years old, I can state absolutely that I have paid back every single penny I have ever borrowed in my life. It irks me to think that someone should be able to willingly assume debt and then be told they no longer have to pay it back.

You and I are going to pay it back for them, and it's wrong...
#15055296
Nothing is free. Even places that offer "free" college I am still not so sure this is a good idea financially speaking for their government's budget and the level of taxation that would have to take place on their citizens and how that could effect their economies. Currently, my government is paying for my college education but I also paid a very heavy price in the service of my government.

It took many years after my honorable discharge from the Army after serving in a time of war to be able to recover and re-integrate myself back into society and be able to go to school again. Meanwhile, my friends already have their Master's degrees, but they also have student loan debt on top of that.

When I volunteered to serve I never did it for any sort of benefit at all. I wanted to serve my country to ensure the victims of 9/11 get the justice they deserve. I was in fact shocked to discover the benefits I was eligible for much later on after my discharge. But looking at this from an economic perspective, I paid a price for my education in a different form that my peers didn't pay for theirs. They didn't volunteer for military service and give up a piece of mind and soul or body (or life) in a time of war.

This enabled them to get their degrees early but they paid the price on the back end to where they now have student loan debt. Me on the other hand, I paid the price for my college tuition on the front end by volunteering for military service during a time of war but it took many years to recover to where I was ready to go back to school.

So, now that I am able to go back to school, I am getting it debt free, but I am also earning my Master's degree later on in life whereas my peers did not. Either way you look at the tradeoffs I made and my peers made, we pretty much pay for educations one way or another. They got their Master's degrees earlier than me but have debt to pay off. I get my Master's degree later on and have no debt to pay off. Looking at this, you can see, neither side "got something for nothing." Each of us paid for educations one way or another.

Some of us pay on the front end by surrendering a piece of mind, soul and not getting our Master's degree sooner, others of us pay on the back end in the form of student loan debt but get their Master's degrees much earlier. Of course, they too might suffer some stress that is financial stress of paying off student loan instead of the stress of combat. My stress was paid on the front end, their financial stress of paying off student loans is paid on the back end. But both myself and my peers face some form of stress to pay for our education and none of it was given to either one of us. Ultimately, you will pay one way or another, some way, some how in some form or another because in the end, there really is no such thing as "something for nothing" or "free."
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 21 Dec 2019 01:09, edited 8 times in total.
#15055301
BigSteve wrote:
As for people being naive about believing Bernie would get all of that, the important thing to remember is that's exactly what he's running on. Just as those who were voting for Trump were told it was stupid to believe he could build a wall, isn't it equally stupid, then, for someone to believe Sanders promise of free college and tuition forgiveness?

I dunno'. It makes no sense. At 57 years old, I can state absolutely that I have paid back every single penny I have ever borrowed in my life. It irks me to think that someone should be able to willingly assume debt and then be told they no longer have to pay it back.



Campaigns are about setting goals. Are you one of those guys that is stuck in literal?

That's what bankruptcy is. We got rid of debtors prison, because, for some reason people couldn't pay off their debt locked in prison. You are why Charles Dickens wrote about the evils of early captialism. It was actually a lot worse than he was able to talk about.

Going backwards is one of the dumbest ideas in human history.
#15055305
Patrickov wrote:
Societies collapse for different reasons. Nature only evolve to what's fit, and nothing (including progress) lasts forever.



Sure, but does that have anything to do with what I said?

Btw, as someone not familiar with American politics, you prob would missed the implied dig at Biden's restoration campaign themes.
#15055307
late wrote:Sure, but does that have anything to do with what I said?


Yes. "Going backwards" is sometimes a natural phenomenon and cannot be steered by sheer human will power. Therefore I do not agree with the statement "Going backwards is one of the dumbest ideas in human history."

Edit: I also believe that...
1. Sometimes "backward" needs to happen. Just like driving, there are occasions where a backward maneuver is necessary.
2. Some other times, whether a movement is "forward" or "backward" depends on what one believes.


late wrote:Btw, as someone not familiar with American politics, you prob would missed the implied dig at Biden's restoration campaign themes.


I am not aware that such a thing, or Mr. Biden, is relevant to what I was replying.
Last edited by Patrickov on 20 Dec 2019 17:32, edited 1 time in total.
#15055308
late wrote:Campaigns are about setting goals. Are you one of those guys that is stuck in literal?


"Setting goals"? Seriously?

I don't recall a single lib commenting that Trump's wall was just him "setting goals"...

That's what bankruptcy is. We got rid of debtors prison, because, for some reason people couldn't pay off their debt locked in prison. You are why Charles Dickens wrote about the evils of early captialism. It was actually a lot worse than he was able to talk about.

Going backwards is one of the dumbest ideas in human history.


I've said nothing about bankruptcy or going backwards, so thanks for not addressing my point.

But that's what you do.

Is it your opinion that forgiving over $1.5 trillion in debt is the way to go?

Do you think there should be "free college for all"?
#15055316
BigSteve wrote:
1) I don't recall a single lib commenting that Trump's wall was just him "setting goals"...



2) I've said nothing about bankruptcy or going backwards, so thanks for not addressing my point.

3) Is it your opinion that forgiving over $1.5 trillion in debt is the way to go?

4) Do you think there should be "free college for all"?



1) Kinda obvious..

2) You didn't know enough about the topic to make the connection. You want to take us back to the 1800s. That has fail written all over it.

3) I already went over that, you didn't understand it. While Bernie won't get that, we could easily undo the Bankruptcy Reform Act. We could also take back control of that student debt, and handle it in such a way that it doesn't ruin lives.

4) I went over that, as well. Generous subsidies for students of modest means seeking STEM degrees makes a lot of sense. We need a lot more STEM grads. Since the obvious escapes you, that means we put our money where it will do the country the most good.
#15055379
late wrote:1) Kinda obvious.


Kinda hypocritical...

2) You didn't know enough about the topic to make the connection. You want to take us back to the 1800s. That has fail written all over it.


This is just stupid. Everyone who's read it is just a little more stupid for having read it (and the libs here can hardly afford that)...

3) I already went over that, you didn't understand it. While Bernie won't get that, we could easily undo the Bankruptcy Reform Act. We could also take back control of that student debt, and handle it in such a way that it doesn't ruin lives.


So, everyone knows he's not going to get it, but it's okay for him to make that a major part of his platform?

That's insane...

4) I went over that, as well. Generous subsidies for students of modest means seeking STEM degrees makes a lot of sense. We need a lot more STEM grads. Since the obvious escapes you, that means we put our money where it will do the country the most good.


Again, Bernie hasn't said it'll be for STEM grads. He said "for all".

But, to your silly little point, if I want to go back to school for a degree in engineering, you're essentially saying that I should be able to do that at no cost, correct?
#15055389
late wrote:We're really hitting your limits hard today, aren't we?


Well, I've learned there are no limits to your hypocrisy and your inability to respond to simple questions.

Why are you so afraid to answer?

Given the lack of intelligent input from you, there's simply no reason to take anything you say seriously.

I've never seen anyone dodge simple questions as much as you do. They scare you...
Last edited by BigSteve on 21 Dec 2019 07:18, edited 1 time in total.
#15055392
BigSteve wrote:
Well, I've learned there are no limits to your hypocrisy and yopur inability to respond to simple questions.

Why are you so afraid to answer?

Given the lack of intelligent input from you, there's simply no reason to take anything you say seriously.

I've never seen anyone dodge simple questions as much as you do. They scare you...



One of your limits is that you apparently have no concept of governance.

As I tried to make you aware, if Bernie were to become president, he would pursue his goals, but within the current political climate.

Which would means working for something considerably more modest, like bankruptcy reform and updating student loan priorities.

Don't worry the Clintons will be back in the news,[…]

1) That's a contradiction. 2) Philosophy is[…]

Trump has been impeached

I know this is just part of your being funny (or […]

Election 2020

Where are the likes of Buckley? William F […]