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#15056071
One of the questions you should ask is, who is this for? Take high tech surveillance, as an example. You can use it strictly to help people, or you can use it to make the rich even more powerful, and make everyone else a second or third class citizen.

If you've ever been to Europe, you see bicycles everywhere, but few places have made transportation without cars safer and better than the Netherlands.This is how they do it, and why we should, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0GA901oGe4
#15056111
1) Netherlands is very small.
2) They already have decent designs in place that allow changes like that.
3) It'd cost a massive amount to alter the infrastructure in places like USA and Canada, to do that.
#15056112
Godstud wrote:
1) Netherlands is very small.
2) They already have decent designs in place that allow changes like that.
3) It'd cost a massive amount to alter the infrastructure in places like USA and Canada, to do that.



Yes, it will cost. But we'll be doing it, climate change. Ironically, if we were smart, we would have also been working on making our cities good places to live, since the 70s..

This is also an opportunity. Small e-vehicles are going to make a lot of money for the people that bring that product to maturity.
#15056118
BigSteve wrote:
And that will give libs some new rich people to bitch and whine about...



You really have no ability whatsoever to discuss policy.

When we do tackle climate change, a lot of the Out of It Rightys are going to need rubber rooms.
#15056122
Zionist Nationalist wrote:
Im not going to give up on my car for bicycles



If we make our cities bike friendly, a lot of people will. Kids today don't care about cars, good public transportation and intelligent urban design, and they will be better off than you will in your car (which is stuck in traffic).
#15056129
late wrote:You really have no ability whatsoever to discuss policy.


Present a policy that doesn't include trying to turn us into the Netherlands and we can discuss "policy".

Thus far, though, we're not discussing "policy" because you've failed to present one...
#15056135
BigSteve wrote:
Present a policy that doesn't include trying to turn us into the Netherlands and we can discuss "policy".

Thus far, though, we're not discussing "policy" because you've failed to present one...



So first you whine about me "trying to turn us in the the Netherlands" and then you say I didn't present anything.

Thanks so much for proving my point.
#15056156
late wrote:So first you whine about me "trying to turn us in the the Netherlands" and then you say I didn't present anything.

Thanks so much for proving my point.


Oh, apologies.

I just didn't imagine someone could be so naive as to think trying to turn us into the Netherlands was an example of a sound policy option...
#15056158
BigSteve wrote:
Oh, apologies.

I just didn't imagine...



You didn't bother to learn, so you make stuff up.

The Netherlands is different, and no one with a room temp IQ would advocate what you are saying.

But making our cities better places to live, reducing the amount of greenhouse gases we release, that's brilliant. We could adopt some of what they do, we could adapt some other things.

What I am trying to do is start a conversation on how we should start doing that. Since you are a Big Oil guy, you want to keep that conversation from happening.
#15056159
Working towards a model like the Netherlands one, isn't turning it into one. Could you inject a bit more melodrama into it, @BigSteve ?
#15056179
late wrote:You didn't bother to learn, so you make stuff up.

The Netherlands is different, and no one with a room temp IQ would advocate what you are saying.

But making our cities better places to live, reducing the amount of greenhouse gases we release, that's brilliant. We could adopt some of what they do, we could adapt some other things.

What I am trying to do is start a conversation on how we should start doing that. Since you are a Big Oil guy, you want to keep that conversation from happening.


I'll buy you a house if you can show where I have ever, and I mean ever said anything in favor of "big oil".

Yeah, you can't, so stop making up bullshit fantasies...
#15056194
BigSteve wrote:
I'll buy you a house if you can show where I have ever, and I mean ever said anything in favor of "big oil".



"The fact of the matter is that if we cut 100% of our emissions it would have almost no impact through the turn of the next century. "

Big Oil guys do love their excuses...

You posted this:
Image



The important point is that it would be naïve to think that it possible to have a meaningful discussion about climate change with Trump.(Pants of Dog)


The important point is that you belch up nonsense that simply isn't true...(BigSteve)

...................................................................

"I absolutely believe that our climate is changing. It has to. What I don't necessarily believe, though, is that we're in a position to stop that change. I also don't believe that we should necessarily stop it if we could." BigSteve

.......................................................................

"This is not an American problem..."

Actually, we've pumped more GHG than any other country. We also screwed the situation by pulling out of Paris. It is very much an American problem..

..................................................................................

"The only thing we can be sure of is, regardless of what we do or not do, global warming and climate change will continue regardless of what we do or don't do..."

Another Big Oil excuse to not reduce the amount of oil we use..

..........................................................................

I'd like a 3K +/-, sq ft ranch in the area outside San Fran.
#15056199
late wrote:"The fact of the matter is that if we cut 100% of our emissions it would have almost no impact through the turn of the next century. "

Big Oil guys do love their excuses...

You posted this:
Image



The important point is that it would be naïve to think that it possible to have a meaningful discussion about climate change with Trump.(Pants of Dog)


The important point is that you belch up nonsense that simply isn't true...(BigSteve)

...................................................................

"I absolutely believe that our climate is changing. It has to. What I don't necessarily believe, though, is that we're in a position to stop that change. I also don't believe that we should necessarily stop it if we could." BigSteve

.......................................................................

"This is not an American problem..."

Actually, we've pumped more GHG than any other country. We also screwed the situation by pulling out of Paris. It is very much an American problem..

..................................................................................

"The only thing we can be sure of is, regardless of what we do or not do, global warming and climate change will continue regardless of what we do or don't do..."

Another Big Oil excuse to not reduce the amount of oil we use..

..........................................................................

I'd like a 3K +/-, sq ft ranch in the area outside San Fran.


You can "like" whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is that, once again, you've failed.

Are you so naive that you think the only thing contributing to climate change is "big oil"? How narrow-minded. How myopic.

If that were true, why would AOC want to get rid of cows??

LOL!!
#15056217
BigSteve wrote:
You can "like" whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is that, once again, you've failed.

Are you so naive that you think the only thing contributing to climate change is "big oil"? How narrow-minded. How myopic.



"I'll buy you a house if you can show where I have ever, and I mean ever said anything in favor of "big oil"."

You just tried to move the goalposts. But given the situation, I can understand why...
#15056223
I applaud the approach of looking at places where people have found successful ways of reducing problems in ways that could benefitial. Maybe their ideas could work here too.

No one's asking anyone to give up their car. But think about it. It's 14 miles to the office. You need groceries, its raining, etc. You'll use the car, but there are malls within a short distance from your home . How much could you use a bike and save on gas plus help the environment and get exercise if you walked or rode a bike.

And from what I know re the USA, it's infrastructure could use some work, so they would benefit in a number of ways.
#15056231
It would certainly be a challenge, but dismissing it outright is truly myopic and stupid. Many cities have redone their inner city to make them both green and improve the quality of living. I am simply a pragmatist and know that with big changes sometimes come big costs.
#15056239
late wrote:"I'll buy you a house if you can show where I have ever, and I mean ever said anything in favor of "big oil"."

You just tried to move the goalposts. But given the situation, I can understand why...


None of the statements you quoted were supporting big oil. They were speaking to reality, which is something you repeatedly prove you have no concept of...
#15056243
Godstud wrote:I am simply a pragmatist and know that with big changes sometimes come big costs.

Motorways and car parks cost money, too.

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