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#15056296
Many voters are reportedly indifferent to the impeachment process and other grievances against Trump and will make their 2020 voting decisions on their personal welfare: I’m doing ok and will vote for Trump because the economy is doing ok.

Should liberals sabotage the economy to make that less true? By sabotage, I mean simply refusing to buy anything that is not essential to your survival: the latest smart phone, the latest vehicle, the most stylish clothes. Stay home more and don’t travel and eat out less often. All that would presumably cause a recession that would negate support for Trump. A side effect is that less consumption would have the environmental benefit of consuming less resources and fuel.

Of course, all that would require self-discipline by the left, a quality I doubt that have.
#15056300
Robert Urbanek wrote:
Should liberals sabotage the economy to make that less true?



Republicans do enough sabotage for 10 countries.

We are all full up on crazy.
#15056357
All signatories to the Paris Agreement should boycott American goods and services or put a heavy carbon border tax on said goods and services. The carbon border tax will come sooner rather than later.
#15056359
Robert Urbanek wrote:Should liberals sabotage the economy to make that less true? By sabotage, I mean simply refusing to buy anything that is not essential to your survival: the latest smart phone, the latest vehicle, the most stylish clothes. Stay home more and don’t travel and eat out less often. All that would presumably cause a recession that would negate support for Trump. A side effect is that less consumption would have the environmental benefit of consuming less resources and fuel.

Of course, all that would require self-discipline by the left, a quality I doubt that have.


Liberals would never do such a thing.

They would, however, demand that others do it...
#15056361
Atlantis wrote:All signatories to the Paris Agreement should boycott American goods and services or put a heavy carbon border tax on said goods and services. The carbon border tax will come sooner rather than later.


You clearly dont have any knowledge on how modern economy works
#15056369
Zionist Nationalist wrote:You clearly dont have any knowledge on how modern economy works


I do, but the Trumpets don't even know what the modern economy is.
#15056374
Atlantis wrote:I do, but the Trumpets don't even know what the modern economy is.

You will get deeply fucked if you boycott the US Europe and the whole world economy is depending alot on the US. China will have an economic crash without trading with the US.
#15056453
Zionist Nationalist wrote:You will get deeply fucked if you boycott the US Europe and the whole world economy is depending alot on the US. China will have an economic crash without trading with the US.


The US protection racket only works because people believe in it, it's like with the king's new clothes ... , once you start doubting, it disappears into thin air.

If ever the US had a beneficial role, those times have long passed. Today, the US has a destructive role both for world peace and for the global economy. And that truth starts to sink in. In Germany, people think that Trump is a greater threat to world peace than Putin or Kim.

A sudden crash of the petrodollar would have consequences worldwide; however, since it's bound to happen in the medium term, other countries are well-advised to build trade and finance-networks that are independent of the US so as to easy their economies off the US system gradually.

The US only represent about 5% of the world population. While it still has a substantial share of the global GDP, that is bound to decrease because emerging and developing economies have higher growth rates.

Every new sanction Trump declares drives home the message that the world needs to become independent of the US before the US triggers the next global crisis. We need to build a firewall around Trumpland and make the Trumpets pay for it with a carbon border tax.

Germany Calls for European Firewall Against U.S. Sanctions

Why Europe should champion a carbon border tax

Many countries have started to replace the dollar with the euro for international trade and for the oil trade. The risk of depending on Trump's whims are just too high. We have started to set up financial institutions independent of the US. The carbon border tax and the digital tax on multinationals will come, that's for sure.

The more Trump weaponizes the dollar, the more the world will want an alternative.
#15056500
The dollar is already being replaced by the RMB in the China case. The RMB isn't convertible,meaning for me being in China I need a lot of documents; a current work permit, residence permit, contract, tax documents, etc. to exchange RMB to another currency. Foreigners are free to exchange their currencies to RMB though. There are a lot of Chinese exporters that are now only accepting RMB to pay for their exports.
#15056505
I don't think this is a Democrat vs Republican thing. Spending is based on want and need,

Young people start out with v little. They need post secondary trainimg, apartments, furnature, maybe a house etc.

I've recently placed my mother into a nursing home after she severely injured herself and had trouble walking without bleeding. My mom in law suddenly died. I had everything I needed before, and now have cartons of extras.
#15056507
Robert Urbanek wrote:Should liberals sabotage the economy to make that less true?

No

Robert Urbanek wrote:By sabotage, I mean simply refusing to buy anything that is not essential to your survival: the latest smart phone, the latest vehicle, the most stylish clothes. Stay home more and don’t travel and eat out less often. All that would presumably cause a recession that would negate support for Trump. A side effect is that less consumption would have the environmental benefit of consuming less resources and fuel.

Of course, all that would require self-discipline by the left, a quality I doubt that have.


You are confused.

Fundamentally, there is nothing wrong nor liberal about advocating for less consumerism.
#15056513
The economic success we are enjoying isn't because of any policy implemented by Trump. It's because of policies implemented by former President Obama when he was in office that were not immediately felt when he was in office. As anybody with any sense knows, economic policy takes time to be felt and doesn't instantly happen the day the policies are instituted. So one should not call this the "Trump economy" when it was not his policies that created good economic times. It was former President Obama's.
#15056571
Robert Urbanek wrote:Many voters are reportedly indifferent to the impeachment process and other grievances against Trump and will make their 2020 voting decisions on their personal welfare: I’m doing ok and will vote for Trump because the economy is doing ok.

Should liberals sabotage the economy to make that less true? By sabotage, I mean simply refusing to buy anything that is not essential to your survival: the latest smart phone, the latest vehicle, the most stylish clothes. Stay home more and don’t travel and eat out less often. All that would presumably cause a recession that would negate support for Trump. A side effect is that less consumption would have the environmental benefit of consuming less resources and fuel.

Of course, all that would require self-discipline by the left, a quality I doubt that have.
IMHO if Trump supporters do believe economic decline to be a result of enemy sabotage, they will only harden their support of Trump because they will be eager to see their enemies defeated.
#15056572
Crantag wrote:The dollar is already being replaced by the RMB in the China case. The RMB isn't convertible,meaning for me being in China I need a lot of documents; a current work permit, residence permit, contract, tax documents, etc. to exchange RMB to another currency. Foreigners are free to exchange their currencies to RMB though. There are a lot of Chinese exporters that are now only accepting RMB to pay for their exports.
If China has a better record in upholding rule of law and individual rights protection then this will happen. Now? Maybe China is operating its propaganda machine pretty effectively.
#15056578
Patrickov wrote:If China has a better record in upholding rule of law and individual rights protection then this will happen. Now? Maybe China is operating its propaganda machine pretty effectively.

The case I mentioned is simply a case of money talks. 'We want your manufactures.' 'Okay, but you'll have to send us Yuan from now on instead of dollars.'
#15056579
Crantag wrote:The case I mentioned is simply a case of money talks. 'We want your manufactures.' 'Okay, but you'll have to send us Yuan from now on instead of dollars.'
Sorry that I have stretched a bit.

What I mean is that it only works in that particular country and has no significance as long as it doesn't happen elsewhere. If other countries (say, India, Turkey or even Eurozone countries) do the same then it's really a difference.
#15056585
Patrickov wrote:Sorry that I have stretched a bit.

What I mean is that it only works in that particular country and has no significance as long as it doesn't happen elsewhere. If other countries (say, India, Turkey or even Eurozone countries) do the same then it's really a difference.

China is a behemoth now though, their actions do matter. The Belt and Road is also in significant part about circumventing US-controlled trade routes, which also broadly are related to the dollar hegemony. My first post was also sort of an indirect response to/augmenting of Atlantis' comment about rising trade settlement in Euros, which seems to relate to your own comment here.
#15056586
Crantag wrote:China is a behemoth now though, their actions do matter. The Belt and Road is also in significant part about circumventing US-controlled trade routes, which also broadly are related to the dollar hegemony. My first post was also sort of an indirect response to/augmenting of Atlantis' comment about rising trade settlement in Euros, which seems to relate to your own comment here.


As far as the reports go, governments of surrounding countries, even those in Central Asia and are not pro-American at all, seem not trust the Belt and Road programme very much.
#15056589
Patrickov wrote:As far as the reports go, governments of surrounding countries, even those in Central Asia and are not pro-American at all, seem not trust the Belt and Road programme very much.

Sure there's skepticism and instances of push back, but there are also a lot of tangible results. Sri Lanka defaulting and being compelled to cede a port to China had some fallout, and politicians in some countries, like the Philippines I believe among others, have made a campaign issue out of Belt and Road. But a lot of results have also already been achieved and there is momentum. I personally think the project is not really under threat of stalling at this time. Lord knows that's not an opinion which is in any way expert at all, but is my sense based on what I have read and observed. Just my sense.
#15057219
Patrickov wrote:As far as the reports go, governments of surrounding countries, even those in Central Asia and are not pro-American at all, seem not trust the Belt and Road programme very much.


Belt and Road: Sounds like the name of a company competing with L.L. Bean.
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