Most Jews have little genetic link to ancient Israel. - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

Moderator: PoFo Middle-East Mods

Forum rules: No one-line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum moderated in English, so please post in English only. Thank you.
#15059563
European and American Jews who colonized part of the Middle East have very little claim to “Israeli” land based on actual lineage, as noted by this Ancestry.com blog entry:

I took the DNA test and it came back as British Isles, and Eastern European Jewish and some minor ant of something, but nothing from Israel or the Middle East. How can I be a Jew with no connection to where all Jews originate from?

A reply noted:

The markers of this mixed European-Middle Eastern population [Ashkenazi Jews] are different (although with slight overlap) than those associated with populations that have remained in the Middle East.

As most Jewish ancestry searches reach a dead end in Europe, that “slight overlap” is a rather tenuous link. Most Jews from America and Europe can claim to be from the Tribe of Israel as much as Elizabeth Warren can claim to be a Native American, and maybe less so.

https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2017/07/21/is-ancestrydna-helpful-for-jewish-genealogy/
#15059615
To me this is mainly proof that the Ashkenazi Jews did "fuck around" in Europe. I mean ultimately they do have some obvious semetic DNA traits, like a big nose and most of them still have a long face, dark hair and eyes. But yeah they did mess around in Europe and mixed in with the local populations. Fucked outside of the religion and had European converts(including the Kazars) and whatnot. Totally lost the classical semetic mediterranian olive skin tones. Also the Diaspora existed much earlier than 70AD and so alot of these Ashkenazi Jews would just have to go maybe at least 2300 years back before they hit the holy land(and at that point the genetics would only show European, even if they did have ancient Israelite ancestry).

I would like to see the split between the Jewish sub racial categories. I have a theory Sephardic Jews are the most closely related to the ancient Jews (of Jesus time) because they are the only group that stayed in the Mediterranean sea region(apart from the Jewish communities which remained in close proximity to the "promised land").

Your example was a highly European Ashkenazi Jew. I would love to see a Sephardic breakdown or a breakdown of a Jew who's family "mostly stayed in the holy land". Or a Mizrahi test too.
#15059621
colliric wrote:Your example was a highly European Ashkenazi Jew. I would love to see a Sephardic breakdown or a breakdown of a Jew who's family "mostly stayed in the holy land". Or a Mizrahi test too.

Jewish supremacist racists and their Gentile toadies love to use the misnomers "anti-Semitism" and "Anti-Semitic" for a number of reasons, but one is that Sephardic Jews used to be referred to as Semitic Jews. Racist prejudice amongst Ashkenazi not only towards their Gentile neighbours, but also towards the so called Semitic Jews was endemic. Particularly amongst the most educated and elitist Ashkenazi, the Semitic Jews were often seen as "Deplorables" clinging to their backward outdated religious and cultural Semitic practices. Semitic Jews were aware of this and had a tendency to resent it. In fact attitudes of Semitic Jews to Askenazi were often remarkably similar to the attitudes of many moderately anti-Jewish Gentiles.

This resentment by Semitic Jews lingers to do this day, its just force of circumstance in Israel, surrounded by more pressing Muslim enemies forces them to bite their tongues. Anyway this is one reason why Jewish supremacists are so keen to enforce use of the misnomer of anti Semitism, in order to forget this inconvenient history.

Now let me point out, there is no special evil in this. It is entirely normal for Jewish opinion formers to wish to manipulate the public discourse to the advantage of their identity group, with scant concern for the truth. No this has been going on for the last 5000 years, ever since the emergence of multi ethnic, multilingual, polities. No in the same way there was nothing evil about German militarism, they just happened to be good at it. There is nothing evil about Ashkenazi competition in the struggle of identity politics and identity ideological struggle. they just happen to be good at it.
#15059694
At least two-thirds of Ashkenazi maternal lineages have a European ancestry. The best estimate is to assign ~81% of Ashkenazi lineages to a European source, ~8% to the Near East and ~1% further to the east in Asia, with ~10% remaining ambiguous. Paternal Y-DNA hg R-M17 (R1a) in Ashkenazi Jews (∼45%) could also represent gene flow from Eastern European populations. Haplogroup R-M17 (R1a) is present at considerable frequencies in various Eastern European populations, but is absent or found only at very low frequencies in Central and West Asians and in Middle Easterners. The frequency of haplogroup R1b in the Ashkenazim population is similar to the frequency of R1b in Middle Eastern populations. Because haplogroups R-M17 (R1a) and R-P25 (R1b) are present in non-Ashkenazi Jewish populations (4% and 10%, respectively) and in non-Jewish Near Eastern populations (7% and 11%, respectively), it is likely that they were also present at low frequency (~10%) in the AJ (Ashkenazi Jewish) founding population. Furthermore, the most common Y-DNA AJ haplogroup is J, which accounts to ~40% of the AJ gene pool. Therefore, the majority of AJ Y-DNA haplogroups can be traced back to Palestine, from which a sex-biased migration pattern can be observed.

Abstract
The origins of Ashkenazi Jews remain highly controversial. Like Judaism, mitochondrial DNA is passed along the maternal line. Its variation in the Ashkenazim is highly distinctive, with four major and numerous minor founders. However, due to their rarity in the general population, these founders have been difficult to trace to a source. Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry. Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe. These results point to a significant role for the conversion of women in the formation of Ashkenazi communities, and provide the foundation for a detailed reconstruction of Ashkenazi genealogical history.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543

What's wrong with Britain?, A lot is wrong with […]

Trump has been impeached

I still don't get how Trump "abused the power[…]

Occam's Razor is a mass murderer.

@late I disagree. I think the Brits are as[…]