Rich Lowry: Pro-lockdown extremists in denial about why we did it in the first place - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15089475
NeverTrumper and National Review editor Rich Lowry is now sounding off about the coronavirus lockdowns. I think I'm beginning to see a trend here:

Pro-lockdown extremists in denial about why we did it in the first place
The lockdowns of much of the country were undertaken “to flatten the curve” and largely to prevent the hospital system from being overrun. It was a near-run thing in New York and New Jersey, but the dikes held, thanks to the incredible sacrifices of front-line health workers.

Now, the rhetoric around the shutdowns has shifted, and not very subtly — flattening the curve and saving the hospitals are “out,” and not allowing any additional cases to emerge is “in.”

It’s difficult to remember, but flattening the curve was never supposed to be about eradicating the disease.

We cannot eradicate any disease with a lockdown and a collapsing economy. It's simply not possible. All that is being done is to make poor people even poorer. They will let you buy alcohol, cigarettes, marijuana, and they will even give you free needles and methadone (developed by the Nazis). Yet, they won't let you plant a vegetable garden, paint your house, wash your car, etc.

Things have gone terribly wrong, and political leaders are assuming authority that they may very well not have. I expect to see authority challenged more and more as these lockdowns go on.
#15089579
For many American Liberals the primary purpose of the lock down is to remove Donald Trump. Come January if Joe Biden is installed as President, then I think you will find that deaths and sickness from the Xi virus become a lot more acceptable.
#15089585
Rich wrote:For many American Liberals the primary purpose of the lock down is to remove Donald Trump.
That's an idiotic statement to make. There is nothing to support this stupid statement except your own delusional opinion.

The pandemic was a great opportunity for Trump to demonstrate real leadership ability. That he fumbled it and failed only goes to show how poor of a President he is.

Deaths from Covid-19 virus are not acceptable regardless of who is President. No one is saying differently, despite your claims that say otherwise.

Your narrative is childish and another dumb right-wing conspiracy theory, @Rich.

Really, @Sivad using AON? They're as bad as Breitbart! :lol:

You just have to stick with bullshit, don't you guys?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/one-amer ... s-network/
#15089589
Godstud wrote:idiotic
stupid
delusional
childish
dumb
conspiracy theory

I do wonder if Pofo is the right place for you. You rather remind of Adolf Hitler in his final days. You are seemingly consumed by paroxysms of rage every time a poster deigns to put a differing opinion. Most of us are no doubt guilty of ad hominems, but you seem to machine gun spray your posts with them. At times your posts are more ad hominem than argument.

Note I've included "conspiracy theory" under ad hominems. For example Trump supporters are often accused of having a racist agenda. But they normally don't retort back "conspiracy theory". When leftists accuse Trump supporters of having a racist agenda, we don't presume that you are saying there is some secret organising committee that secretly decides an agenda and instructs its army of agency-less drones. Similarly when we accuse the left or Liberals of a pervasive agenda we are not suggesting any kind of giant conspiracy to spread such agenda. We are not even suggesting that the agenda is fully conscious amongst many of its agents.

Deaths from Covid-19 virus are not acceptable

Really? I encourage you to take just a little time to reflect on who is the one making stupid statements.
#15089590
Nothing you said, can be backed up with any facts.

It's a conspiracy theory when you can't back anything up with facts, and only your belief.

What I said were not ad hominems. I was attacking you ridiculous argument, and exposing it for what it was: ABSURD.

Your claim was that covid deaths were acceptable if you were of a particular bent of politics and that's a narrative that you simply can't support, so you do the next best thing and attack the poster, and not make an argument.

Divert. Evade. Deceive.

The old, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.", argument.

Cherry-picking and taking my statements out of context, or even shortening them so they don't make sense, is not an argument, either.
#15089599
Godstud wrote:Deaths from Covid-19 virus are not acceptable regardless of who is President. No one is saying differently, despite your claims that say otherwise.

Lockdowns are generally unacceptable, except under extraordinary circumstances. Deaths from flu, cold, etc. are accepted. We do not lock down the country because of them. They happen in the 10s of thousands every single year. Deaths from HIV/AIDS, alcohol, drugs and cigarettes are also widely accepted. In fact, they are accepted during the lockdown too. In liberal California, you can finally have alcohol delivered to your door. It used to be that alcoholics running low on booze had to drive drunk to the liquor store to resupply. Now they can just order in with Door Dash, which will help reduce the number of drunk drivers.

Godstud wrote:It's a conspiracy theory when you can't back anything up with facts, and only your belief.

You mean like the Trump/Russia collusion conspiracy theory where even Robert Mueller had to conclude that he could not find any evidence of any American, let alone a member of the Trump campaign, actively colluding with Russia?
#15089650
@Rich

I dont like Trump because he's a shitbag. Trump is unfit to be in office and as an American he doesn't represent me. He's basically a white supremacist Nazi who only represent racist white people extremists and rich white people.

He doesnt represent most of America and he has no intention of doing so. He only cares about representing racist white people and rich white people.

That's the only people he represents. Given that is the case he will hopefully lose the upcoming election. But the coronavirus and the amount of deaths started under Trump's watch and Trump closing down the pandemic team prior to the pandemic played a role on the number of deaths.

That and the fact he simply ignored the experts. So Trump helped bring this in himself. The rich white people see Trump as a useful idiot just like Putin does. And the racist white people support Trump because their ignorant.
#15089660
blackjack21 wrote:
We cannot eradicate any disease with a lockdown...



Well, that was dumb.

It's over in New Zealand, you know. That isn't eradication, but it is wonderful.

You can get ahead of the disease with mass testing. The lockdown buys you time so you have time to work the problem...

But Trump didn't do his job. That's the butt ugly truth you spend all your time running away from.
#15089680
blackjack21 wrote:Lockdowns are generally unacceptable, except under extraordinary circumstances.
Yes, and like in this case, most of them are completely voluntary. Covid-19 is an extraordinary circumstance.

blackjack21 wrote:Deaths from flu, cold, etc. are accepted.
Yes, but this is not the flu. It's not even a related disease. It is more infectious and has killed more in one month, than in a year of the flu, and has hospitalized more people than all flus and colds, combined.

Why do you keep stating such stupid things? Engage your brain before typing.

blackjack21 wrote:You mean like the Trump/Russia collusion conspiracy theory where even Robert Mueller had to conclude that he could not find any evidence of any American, let alone a member of the Trump campaign, actively colluding with Russia?
:roll: That's a typically thing to say. Divert attention away from the topic. Ask Roger Stone if there's any evidence. He's easily reached in prison. So much for that "conspiracy theory". :lol:
#15089684
@Donna

Donna wrote:The summer outbreaks will confirm the need for lockdown and ravage a lot of Republican careers in the process.


That's hard to say. The Republicans in some areas of the US like the South for example, have successfully gerrymandered districts to where those who choose Democrats still don't get elected (Kromm, 2018). I am not sure how familiar you are with what gerrymandering is. Gerrymandering is the redrawing of voting districts so that it advantages one political party over the other unfairly. The Republicans have done that in the South and it is a legacy of slavery and white supremacy.

Gerrymandering ensures that all power stays in the hands of whites, especially wealthy white people even though the most people in the region voted Democrat. An example I could cite is where Democrats won 46 percent of all votes for the U.S. House in 13 Southern states, the Democratic candidate prevailed in only a third of the races in 2018 (Kromm, 2018). If the South's share of U.S. House members matched the overall vote totals of 2018, Democrats would hold 67 of the region's 147 representatives but as it stands will send only 49 to Washington (Kromm, 2018).



Reference-

Kromm, C. (2018, November 16). How gerrymandering blunted the south's blue wave. Facing South. https://www.facingsouth.org/2018/11/how ... -blue-wave
#15089689
late wrote:It's over in New Zealand, you know.

New Zealand completely banned travel into the country from foreigners. I guess they are a very very racist country, right?

Coronavirus outbreak: New Zealand bans foreign travellers from China
New Zealand followed the United States, Australia, and eight other countries in completely barring foreign travellers from China, despite the World Health Organisation – and Chinese officials – decrying such restrictions.
...
On Monday, New Zealand’s customs authorities announced that screening efforts against the virus would be bolstered further, by processing manually all travellers entering the country at airports. Electronic gates that allow passengers to travel through passport control without speaking to a border official will be turned off.

“We kindly request travellers to be patient to enable a smooth and efficient transition for all,” New Zealand’s customs agency said on Twitter. The new manual screening rule applies to all passengers – including New Zealanders – arriving from any country.

There has not been a confirmed case of the virus in New Zealand.

See? Borders do work. That's why we need to build the wall.

late wrote:You can get ahead of the disease with mass testing.

That's not what New Zealand did. They banned travel into New Zealand and tested all their incoming citizens before there was a single case. It certainly helps that there aren't tons of Chinese nationals from Wuhan flying into and out of New Zealand. So they more or less dodged a bullet.

late wrote:But Trump didn't do his job.

Yes, he did. You could argue he was late on banning travel from Europe, Canada and Mexico. However, his "experts" advised him that it was a low risk in the United States. So the experts were wrong.

Godstud wrote:Why do you keep stating such stupid things?

It's not stupid to point out facts. We lose as many people per year to opiates as we've lost to coronavirus so far. Yet, no closing of the border with Mexico, where 90% of the illegal imports of opiates come from--and no moral outcry from the same people who are wailing on about coronavirus.

Godstud wrote:Ask Roger Stone if there's any evidence. He's easily reached in prison.

He's not in prison yet. He will gladly tell you "No." Stone was not prosecuted for collaborating with the Russians, as I'm sure you already know but are testing to see if I know.
#15089694
blackjack21 wrote:


See? Borders do work. That's why we need to build the wall.


That's not what New Zealand did. They banned travel into New Zealand and tested all their incoming citizens before there was a single case. It certainly helps that there aren't tons of Chinese nationals from Wuhan flying into and out of New Zealand. So they more or less dodged a bullet.


So the experts were wrong.





That's a total non sequitir. The disease got here by plane. Maybe the next crisis will enable bigotry...

First, New Zealand was an example, there are others. Second there was a case, you were wrong. Thrid, they "dodged a bullet" by doing a thorough lockdown.

You do love your fiction. He has been ignoring his experts from the beginning. When they annoyed him, he got rid of them. He brought 14 sick people in before setting up quarantine procedures, against the advice of all his experts. That's how the Washington break out happened.

Love the crazy.
#15089697
blackjack21 wrote:It's not stupid to point out facts. We lose as many people per year to opiates as we've lost to coronavirus so far. Yet, no closing of the border with Mexico, where 90% of the illegal imports of opiates come from--and no moral outcry from the same people who are wailing on about coronavirus.
It is stupid, and it's a strawman argument. Your grandparents aren't going to die from opiates, and are likely at no risk, whatsoever.

Are you going to compare it to car accidents, next? Tecnically, the lockdown is saving more people, as less are driving. :lol:

The "blackjack21 Effect" at work, again.

The investigations into Russian Collusion led to many arrests but I can see you don't like facts nearly as much as you say you do.
#15089703
Godstud wrote:Your grandparents aren't going to die from opiates, and are likely at no risk, whatsoever.

My grandparents are at no risk, because they are all dead and have been for well over a decade.

Godstud wrote:Are you going to compare it to car accidents, next? Tecnically, the lockdown is saving more people, as less are driving. :lol:

That is true. However, I prefer taking the risk and others do too.

Godstud wrote:The investigations into Russian Collusion led to many arrests but I can see you don't like facts nearly as much as you say you do.

100% of them on process crimes--not a single US citizen was found to be collaborating with the Russians; although, they didn't investigate the DNC and the Hillary Clinton campaign.
#15089705
blackjack21 wrote:My grandparents are at no risk, because they are all dead and have been for well over a decade.
You get my point. I know playing dumb is easy for you, but try not to.

There is such a thing as taking calculated risks and you can't do that with a disease like Covid-19, because it is so highly infectious. Opiate abuse is limited to those abusing them, and not to people they might bump into on a bus.

Crimes are crimes. The investigation led to many arrests and charges. That shows what a corrupt campaign Trump went, even if they couldn't prove that Trump was involved in collusion. Facts. You hate em!
#15089708
Godstud wrote:Crimes are crimes. The investigation led to many arrests and charges. That shows what a corrupt campaign Trump went, even if they couldn't prove that Trump was involved in collusion. Facts. You hate em!

I couldn't care less about any of the people involved, except that people should be treated fairly before the law. You seem to think that people support Trump because they like him. They support Trump, because Trump attacks the people they hate. This is why your collateral attacks on Trump's character falls flat. Nobody cares about Trump's character. There are Democrats out there that think Biden is guilty of digital rape, yet have every intention of voting for him anyway. You seem to hate the fact that you can't sway people with scandals and moralistic arguments.

Locking people down isn't going to get people to vote for Biden either.
#15089723
Trump is pissing all over the American people and treating them as expendable. Voting for him would be an act of cuckolding.

They support Trump, because Trump attacks the people they hate. You seem to hate the fact that you can't sway people with scandals and moralistic arguments.


You seem to hate the fact that Americans are not appreciative of the fact that Trump is literally pissing on their faces and that attacking Biden and others will not be enough to mask the smell of piss. He is not just attacking the people the Americans(or rather yourself) hate but rather he is attacking the American people themselves. He killed 2 white Trump-supporting Americans by telling them to use fake medicine. Thousands more called emergency services to confirm his advice, who knows how many more either died or suffered injury but noone has heard about their cases. He did that for no reason other than for his own puny ego.

Instead of a responsible leader you got a guy telling people to inject themselves with disinfectant, to consume lysol and chloroquine as a cure for the virus. If the Americans cannot see the flaws on his character as a leader, then they are evidently deserving of what follows.

The Trump proposition(farce) is barely sustainable(.ie Hillary popular vote) during the good times but good times are good times and nobody cares or has other priorities, hard times on the other hand are not as forgiving. He's finished, and no amount of creative apologetics will bring him back. He no longer has arrogant Hillary to contend with but a white male who is serious, presidential & responsible with Republican qualities and credentials. He's toast.

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