[DannyB]

I for one agree with the original poster.

Some of you asked for sources for his saying that Marxism is racist and antisemitic. You guys want sources? Very well then! Prepare for your ideology to be shattered into a million pieces.

All of the sources I will give you, except two, are direct sources from the works of Marx and Engels, and I have linked to those works online at marxists.org.

How is that racist

It should be abundantly obvious! It's racist to the core. Here Engels makes it clear what he means by the racist term "N*****":

"Paul [is] the candidate of the Jardin des Plantes - and the animals. . . .Being, in his quality as a N*****, a degree nearer to the rest of the animal kingdom than the rest of us, he is undoubtedly the most appropriate representative of that district."

This letter (in German translation) is in Marx & Engels Werke vol. 36, 1967, p. 645. It is not online but is mentioned here: (http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a224511.htm) Not a good source, I know. But it is very believable because it is totally consistent with all the below quotes, and I cite direct sources for all of them - the works of Marx and Engels archived at marxists.org.

Let's begin......

MARX: "CAPITALIST ARE ALL JEWS AT HEART":

Karl Marx, Capital, Volume One, Part II: The Transformation of Money and Capital CHAPTER FOUR: THE GENERAL FORMULA FOR CAPITAL: "The capitalist knows that all commodities, however scurvy they may look, or however badly they may smell, are in faith and in truth money, inwardly circumcised Jews, and what is more, a wonderful means whereby out of money to make more money."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 1/ch04.htm

The German:

"Der Kapitalist weiß, daß alle Waren, wie lumpig sie immer aussehn oder wie schlecht sie immer riechen, im Glauben und in der Wahrheit Geld, innerlich beschnittne Juden sind, und zudem wundertätige Mittel, um aus Geld mehr Geld zu machen."


ENGELS WAS CONTEMPTUOUS OF "N*****"

Letter from Engels to Marx, October 2, 1866: "I have arrived at the conviction that there is nothing to his [Tremaux's] theory if for no other reason than because he neither understands geology nor is capable of the most ordinary literary historical criticism. One could laugh oneself sick about his stories of the N***** Santa Maria and of the transmutations of the whites into Negroes. Especially, that the traditions of the Senegal N***** deserve absolute credulity, just because the rascals cannot write! . . . Perhaps this man will prove in the second volume, how he explains the fact, that we Rhinelanders have not long ago turned into idiots and N***** on our own Devonian Transition rocks . . . Or perhaps he will maintain that we are real N*****."

Source: Quoted by Diane Paul, "'In the Interests of Civilization': Marxist Views of Race and Culture in the Nineteenth Century", Journal of the History of Ideas, Jan-March 1981, p 123. (Werke, Vol. 31, p 256.)


MARX SUPPORTED BLACK SLAVERY IN AMERICA:

Letter from Marx to Pavel Vasilyevich Annenkov, 1846: "As for slavery, there is no need for me to speak of its bad aspects. The only thing requiring explanation is the good side of slavery. I do not mean indirect slavery, the slavery of proletariat; I mean direct slavery, the slavery of the Blacks in Surinam, in Brazil, in the southern regions of North America.

Direct slavery is as much the pivot upon which our present-day industrialism turns as are machinery, credit, etc. Without slavery there would be no cotton, without cotton there would be no modern industry. It is slavery which has given value to the colonies, it is the colonies which have created world trade, and world trade is the necessary condition for large-scale machine industry. Consequently, prior to the slave trade, the colonies sent very few products to the Old World, and did not noticeably change the face of the world. Slavery is therefore an economic category of paramount importance. Without slavery, North America, the most progressive nation, would he transformed into a patriarchal country. Only wipe North America off the map and you will get anarchy, the complete decay of trade and modern civilisation. But to do away with slavery would be to wipe America off the map. Being an economic category, slavery has existed in all nations since the beginning of the world. All that modern nations have achieved is to disguise slavery at home and import it openly into the New World"
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... _12_28.htm


ENGELS APPROVES OF ANTISEMITISM:

Engels to Paul Lafargue, July 22, 1892: "I begin to understand French anti-Semitism when I see how many Jews of Polish origin and with German names intrude themselves everywhere, arrogate everything to themselves and push themselves forward to the point of creating public opinion in the ville lumiere [Paris], of which the Paris philistine is so proud and which he believes to be the supreme power in the universe."
(Frederick Engels, Paul and Laura Lafargue, Correspondence, Vol iii, Moscow. p 184)


MARX SUPPORTED BRITISH RULE OVER INDIA:

Marx, New-York Daily Tribune, June 25, 1853: "England, it is true, in causing a social revolution in Hindoostan, was actuated only by the vilest interests, and was stupid in her manner of enforcing them. But that is not the question. The question is, can mankind fulfil its destiny without a fundamental revolution in the social state of Asia? If not, whatever may have been the crimes of England she was the unconscious tool of history in bringing about that revolution".
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /06/25.htm


ENGELS CELEBRATED THE CONQUEST OF NORTH AFRICAN ARABS BY THE FRENCH:

Engels in The Northern Star January 22, 1848: "Upon the whole it is, in our opinion, very fortunate that the Arabian chief has been taken. The struggle of the Bedouins was a hopeless one, and though the manner in which brutal soldiers, like Bugeaud, have carried on the war is highly blamable, the conquest of Algeria is an important and fortunate fact for the progress of civilisation. The piracies of the Barbaresque states, never interfered with by the English government as long as they did not disturb their ships, could not be put down but by the conquest of one of these states. And the conquest of Algeria has already forced the Beys of Tunis and Tripoli, and even the Emperor of Morocco, to enter upon the road of civilisation. They were obliged to find other employment for their people than piracy, and other means of filling their exchequer than tributes paid to them by the smaller states of Europe. And if we may regret that the liberty of the Bedouins of the desert has been destroyed, we must not forget that these same Bedouins were a nation of robbers, -- whose principal means of living consisted of making excursions either upon each other, or upon the settled villagers, taking what they found, slaughtering all those who resisted, and selling the remaining prisoners as slaves. All these nations of free barbarians look very proud, noble and glorious at a distance, but only come near them and you will find that they, as well as the more civilised nations, are ruled by the lust of gain"
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /01/22.htm


MARX: SLANDERING BOTH JEWS AND NEGROES IN ONE BREATH:

"I now see clearly that he is descended, as the shape of his head and his hair clearly indicate, from the Negroes who were joined to the Jews at the time of the exodus from Egypt ( unless it was his mother or paternal grandmother who mated with a Negro). But this mixture of Judaism and Germanism with a negro substance as a base was bound to yield a most curious product. The importunity of the man also is negroid...One of the great discoveries of this Negro, which he confided to me, is that the Pelasgians are descended from the Semites. His main proof is that, according to the Book of Maccabees, the Jews sent messenger to Greece to ask for help and appealed to their tribal relationship..."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 07_30a.htm


MARX: "NEGROES A DEGENERATE TYPE":

Marx-Engels Correspondence 1866: "For certain questions, such as nationality, etc., only here has a basis in nature been found. E.g., he [Tremaux] corrects the Pole Duchinski, whose version of the geological differences between Russia and the Western Slav lands he does incidentally confirm, by saying not that the Russians are Tartars rather than Slavs, etc., as the latter believes, but that on the surface-formation predominant in Russia the Slav has been tartarised and mongolised; likewise (he spent a long time in Africa) he shows that the common negro type is only a degeneration of a far higher one".
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... _08_07.htm


MARX THOUGHT THAT RUSSIANS WERE REALLY ASIATIC AND SHOULD BE CHASED OUT OF RUSSIA:

(And Hitler tried to do it. Like Hitler, Marx saw race as a criterion of entitlement)

Marx to Engels, 1865: "It has ditto been shown geologically and hydrographically that a great 'Asiatic' difference occurs east of the Dnieper, compared with what lies to the west of it, and that (as Murchison has already maintained) the Urals by no means constitute a dividing line. Result as obtained by Duchinski: Russia is a name usurped by the Muscovites. They are not Slavs; they do not belong to the Indo-Germanic race at all, they are des intrus [intruders], who must be chased back across the Dnieper, etc."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... _06_24.htm


HITLER AND MARX AGREED ABOUT THE JEWS:

"Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew -- not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew. Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew. What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Jewry, would be the self-emancipation of our time.... We recognize in Jewry, therefore, a general present-time-oriented anti-social element, an element which through historical development -- to which in this harmful respect the Jews have zealously contributed -- has been brought to its present high level, at which it must necessarily dissolve itself. In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Jewry".
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... -question/

Marx's original German for confirming the translation above is given below:

"Welches ist der weltliche Grund des Judentums? Das praktische Bedürfnis, der Eigennutz. Welches ist der weltliche Kultus des Juden? Der Schacher. Welches ist sein weltlicher Gott? Das Geld. Nun wohl! Die Emanzipation vom Schacher und vom Geld, also vom praktischen, realen Judentum wäre die Selbstemanzipation unsrer Zeit.... Wir erkennen also im Judentum ein allgemeines gegenwärtiges antisoziales Element, welches durch die geschichtliche Entwicklung, an welcher die Juden in dieser schlechten Beziehung eifrig mitgearbeitet, auf seine jetzige Höhe getrieben wurde, auf eine Höhe, auf welcher es sich notwendig auflösen muß. Die Judenemanzipation in ihrer letzten Bedeutung ist die Emanzipation der Menschheit vom Judentum." (MEW a.a.O. 1, 372 f.)


ENGELS WAS A GERMAN NATIONALIST:

"This is our calling, that we shall become the templars of this Grail, gird the sword round our loins for its sake and stake our lives joyfully in the last, holy war which will be followed by the thousand-year reign of freedom."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... g/ch05.htm



A TYPICAL HITLER RANT:

"True, it is a fixed idea with the French that the Rhine is their property, but to this arrogant demand the only reply worthy of the German nation is Arndt's: "Give back Alsace and Lorraine". For I am of the opinion, perhaps in contrast to many whose standpoint I share in other respects, that the reconquest of the German-speaking left bank of the Rhine is a matter of national honour, and that the Germanisation of a disloyal Holland and of Belgium is a political necessity for us. Shall we let the German nationality be completely suppressed in these countries, while the Slavs are rising ever more powerfully in the East?"
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /arndt.htm


But no, it was not Hitler who said this! It was written in 1841 by Friedrich Engels !!

The original German of the above quote is: "...Allerdings ist es eine fixe Idee bei den Franzosen, dass der Rhein ihr Eigentum sei, aber die einzige des deutschen Volkes wuerdige Antwort auf diese anmassende Forderung ist das Arndtsche 'Heraus mit dem Elsass und Lothringen!' Denn ich bin - vielleicht im Gegensatz zu vielen, deren Standpunkt ich sonst teile - allerdings der Ansicht, dass die Wiedereroberung der deutschsprechenden linken Rheinseite eine nationale Ehrensache, die Germanisierung des abtruennig gewordenen Hollands und Belgiens eine politische Notwendigkeit fuer uns ist. Sollen wir in jenen Laendern die deutsche Nationalitaet vollends unterdruecken lassen, waehrend im Osten sich das Slawentum immer maechtiger erhebt?"


KARL MARX LIKED THE IDEA OF GENOCIDE:

"In January 1849, months before he migrated to London, Karl Marx published an article by Friedrich Engels in Die Neue Rheinische Zeitung announcing that in Central Europe only Germans, Hungarians and Poles counted as bearers of progress. The rest must go. 'The chief mission of all other races and peoples, large and small, is to perish in the revolutionary holocaust.'"
http://www.lutterworth.com/lp/titles/lostlit.htm


MARX FORESAW RACIAL EXTINCTIONS:

(And expressed not the slightest regret about it)

"Society is undergoing a silent revolution, which must be submitted to, and which takes no more notice of the human existences it breaks down than an earthquake regards the houses it subverts. The classes and the races, too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /03/04.htm



POLISH JEWS PARTICULARLY DESPISED BY THE FOUNDERS OF MARXISM:

Engels: "We discovered that in connection with these figures the German national simpletons and money-grubbers of the Frankfurt parliamentary swamp always counted as Germans the Polish Jews as well, although this dirtiest of all races, neither by its jargon nor by its descent, but at most only through its lust for profit, could have any relation of kinship with Frankfurt".
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 04/29b.htm


ENGELS: GERMANS SHOULD USE TERROR AGAINST THE SLAVS:

"(...)Justice and other moral considerations may be damaged here and there; but what does that matter to such facts of world-historic significance?
(...)
Following that, Bohemia and Moravia passed definitely to Germany and the Slovak regions remained with Hungary. And this historically absolutely non-existent "nation" puts forward claims to independence?
(...)
Of course, matters of this kind cannot be accomplished without many a tender national blossom being forcibly broken. But in history nothing is achieved without power and implacable ruthlessness,
(...)
To the sentimental phrases about brotherhood which we are being offered here on behalf of the most counter-revolutionary nations of Europe, we reply that hatred of Russians was and still is the primary revolutionary passion among Germans; that since the revolution hatred of Czechs and Croats has been added, and that only by the most determined use of terror against these Slav peoples can we, jointly with the Poles and Magyars, safeguard the revolution.
(...)
Then there will be a struggle, an "unrelenting life-and-death struggle" against those Slavs who betray the revolution; an annihilating fight and most determined terrorism -- not in the interests of Germany, but in the interests of the revolution!"
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /02/15.htm


ENGELS DIDN'T THINK ALL RACES WERE EQUAL:

(He believed that the Yugoslavs in particular should be wiped out.)

"Among all the nations and sub-nations of Austria, only three standard-bearers of progress took an active part in history, and are still capable of life -- the Germans, the Poles and the Magyars. Hence they are now revolutionary. All the other large and small nationalities and peoples are destined to perish before long in the revolutionary world storm.

(...)

This remnant of a nation that was, as Hegel says, suppressed and held in bondage in the course of history, this human trash, becomes every time -- and remains so until their complete obliteration or loss of national identity -- the fanatical carriers of counter-revolution, just as their whole existence in general is itself a protest against a great historical revolution.

(...)

Such, in Austria, are the pan-Slavist Southern Slavs, who are nothing but the human trash of peoples, resulting from an extremely confused thousand years of development.

(...)

The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is progress."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /01/13.htm

The German:

"Unter all den Nationen und Natiönchen Österreichs sind nur drei, die die Träger des Fortschritts waren, die aktiv in die Geschichte eingegriffen haben, die jetzt noch lebensfähig sind - die Deutschen, die Polen, die Magyaren. Daher sind sie jetzt revolutionär. Alle anderen großen und kleinen Stämme und Völker haben zunächst die Mission, im revolutionären Weltsturm unterzugehen. (...)

Diese Reste einer von dem Gang der Geschichte, wie Hegel sagt, unbarmherzig zertretenen Nationen, diese Völkerabfälle werden jedesmal und bleiben bis zu ihrer gänzlichen Vertilgung oder Entnationalisierung die fanatischen Träger der Kontrerevolution, wie ihre ganze Existenz überhaupt schon ein Protest gegen eine große geschichtliche Revolution ist (...)

So in Österreich die panslawistischen Südslawen, die weiter nichts sind als der Völkerabfall einer höchst verworrenen tausendjährigen Entwicklung. (...)

Der nächste Weltkrieg wird nicht nur reaktionäre Klassen und Dynastien, er wird auch ganze reaktionäre Völker vom Erdboden verschwinden machen. Und das ist auch ein Fortschritt."



MARX SAW THE JEWS AS RIGHTISTS:

"And as for the Jews, who since the emancipation of their sect have everywhere put themselves, at least in the person of their eminent representatives, at the head of the counter-revolution -- what awaits them?"
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 11/17a.htm

In german:

"Und nun gar die Juden, die seit der Emanzipation ihrer Sekte wenigstens in ihren vornehmen Vertretern überall an die Spitze der Kontrerevolution getreten sind, was harrt ihrer?"


ENGELS SAID GERMANY HAD A "RIGHT" TO CONQUER OTHER LANDS: (And Hitler certainly agreed!)

"By the same right under which France took Flanders, Lorraine and Alsace, and will sooner or later take Belgium -- by that same right Germany takes over Schleswig; it is the right of civilization as against barbarism, of progress as against stability. Even if the agreements were in Denmark's favor -- which is very doubtful-this right carries more weight than all the agreements, for it is the right of historical evolution."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 09/10a.htm


Here Marx saw future wars as race wars:

Marx, SECOND ADDRESS On The War To the Members of the International Working-Men's Association, 1870: "If the fortune of her arms, the arrogance of success, and dynastic intrigue lead Germany to a spoliation of French territory, there will then only remain two courses open to her. She must at all risks become the avowed tool of Russian aggrandisement, or, after some short respite, make again ready for another 'defensive' war, not one of those new-fangled 'localised' wars, but a war of races -- a war with the combined Slavonian and Roman races".
http://www.marxists.org/history/interna ... -sep09.htm



MARX: GERMANS SHOULD THRASH THE FRENCH:

Marx to Engels, July 20, 1870: "The French need a thrashing. If the Prussians win, the centralisation of the state power will be useful for the centralisation of the German working class. German predominance would also transfer the centre of gravity of the workers' movement in Western Europe from France to Germany, and one has only to compare the movement in the two countries from 1866 till now to see that the German working class is superior to the French both theoretically and organisationally. Their predominance over the French on the world stage would also mean the predominance of our theory over Proudhon's, etc."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... _07_20.htm

(I guess Hitler got that message too!)


MARX: WAR AGAINST RUSSIA IS A GOOD THING FOR GERMANY (And Hitler carried it out)


Neue Rheinische Zeitung No. 42, July 12, 1848: "Only a war against Russia would be a war of revolutionary Germany, a war by which she could cleanse herself of her past sins, could take courage, defeat her own autocrats, spread civilisation by the sacrifice of her own sons as becomes a people that is shaking off the chains of long, indolent slavery."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /07/12.htm


MARX: WAR IS A GOOD THING (just like Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin and Roosevelt):

Marx, Sept 24, 1855: "The redeeming feature of war is that it puts a nation to the test. As exposure to the atmosphere reduces all mummies to instant dissolution, so war passes supreme judgment upon social systems that have outlived their vitality".


MARX GREATLY ADMIRED A PRO-GERMAN RACIST:

Marx To Engels, 12 September 1863: "The most interesting acquaintanceship I have struck up here is that of Colonel Lapinski. He is without doubt the cleverest Pole - besides being an homme d'action [man of action] - that I have ever met. His sympathies are all on the German side, though in manners and speech he is also a Frenchman. He cares nothing for the struggle of nationalities and only knows the racial struggle. He hates all Orientals, among whom he numbers Russians Turks, Greeks, Armenians, etc., with equal impartiality.... His aim now is to raise a German legion in London, even if only 200 strong, so that he can confront the Russians in Poland with the black, red and gold flag, partly to 'exasperate' the Parisians, partly to see whether there is any possibility whatsoever of bringing the Germans in Germany back to their senses. What's lacking is money. Efforts are being made down here to exploit all the German societies, etc., to this end. You must be the best judge of whether anything can be done in this line in Manchester. The cause itself would seem to be above reproach."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... _09_12.htm


MARX SPEAKS OF "REPULSIVE JEWISH FACIAL FEATURES": (Reminds me of Hitler.)

Marx to Antoinette Philips, March 24, 1861: "This young lady, who instantly overwhelmed me with her kindness, is the ugliest creature I have seen in my entire life, with repulsive Jewish facial features."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/cw/volume41/

The German:

"Dieses Fräulein, das mich mit ihrem Wohlwollen direkt überschwemmte, ist das häßlichste Geschöpf, das ich je in meinem Leben gesehen habe, mit einer garstigen jüdischen Physiognomie (...)"


MARX WAS A SOCIAL DARWINIST:

Marx To Ferdinand Lassalle, 16 January 1861: "Darwin's work is most significant and suits me as a natural science underpinning for historic class struggle. One does, of course, have to put up with the clumsy English style of argument. Despite all shortcomings, it is here that, for the first time, 'teleology' in natural science is not only dealt a mortal blow but its rational meaning is empirically explained."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... _01_16.htm


MARX BELIEVED IN A "JEWISH" LOOK:

Marx: "Mr. Vogt", 1860: "But how much good does it do Mr. Levy to attack Mr. Disraeli and to turn an I into a Y, since Mother Nature has inscribed his family tree in the craziest lettering right in the middle of his face."

The German:

"Aber was nützt es dem Herrn Levy, den Herrn Disraeli anzugreifen und ein Y für ein I zu machen, da Mutter Natur seinen Stammbaum in tollster Frakturschrift ihm mitten ins Gesicht geschrieben hat."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /index.htm


MORE MOCKING ALLUSIONS TO JEWS:

Engels to Marx, 1860: "I intend to write to Ephraim Artful [Ferdinand Lassalle] tomorrow; a diplomatic missive such as this ought not to be sent off without due reflection.... Moreover, little Jew Braun will now see.... ".
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... _01_31.htm


Marx to Engels,25 February 1859: "Admittedly, little Jew Braun [Ferdinand Lassalle] hasn't written to me since my manuscript arrived, and that was over four weeks ago."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 02_25b.htm


ENGELS BELIEVED GERMANS TO BE A SUPERIOR RACE:

Karl Marx, "A Contribution to the Critique of Political economy" (Review by Frederick Engels), Das Volk, 30 No. 14, August 6, 1859: "The Germans have long since shown that in all spheres of science they are equal, and in most of them superior, to other civilised nations. Only one branch of science, political economy, had no German name among its foremost scholars."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /appx2.htm


MORE ANTISEMITIC OUTBURSTS:

Engels to Marx: "The Lasalle manoeuvres have amused me greatly, the frizzy Jew-head now has to very charmingly distinguish himself in the red nightshirt and Marquis garb -- from which at every movement the Polish kike looks out. Seeing it must give the impression of louse-like repulsiveness."

Another translation: "The volleys from Lassalle have amused me greatly, the kinky Jewface must look very enticing above his red nightgown and in the garments of a Marquis that with every movement show his Polish mug. In person, the guy must make a highly dirty and disgusting impression."

German source:
http://www.mehr-freiheit.de/zitate/z06.html


PARANOIA ABOUT BOTH JEWS AND JESUITS:

Marx, The Russian loan: "So we find that behind every tyrant stands a Jew just as there is a Jesuit behind every Pope. Truly, the lusts of the oppressors would be hopeless and the possibility of war unimaginable if it were not for an army of Jesuits to throttle thought and a handful of Jews to pick pockets."
http://www.mlwerke.de/me/me10/me10_308.htm


ENGELS' ANTI-SEMITISM AGAINST MR. LASALLE:

"Moreover, this mania of the greasy Breslau Jew, using all sorts of pomades and rouges to pretty himself up, to force himself into the distinguished world -- to "arrive" (even if only to appearances) -- was always repulsive."


MARX'S JEWISH STEREOTYPE AGAIN

Marx, About the emancipation of the small-farmers in Russia: "But it is well-known that the Russian nobility are, moreover, indebted, to a large extent, to private individuals, bankers, tradesmen, Jews and usurers, and that the great majority are so heavily encumbered as to leave them but a nominal interest in their possessions."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /12/31.htm



MARX HAD THE USUAL ANTISEMITIC PARANOIA ABOUT JEWISH BANKERS:

"Austria's Bankruptcy: The Austrian Kaiser's dependency on the Jews of the Vienna Bank grows in tandem with the military character of his rule."
http://www.mlwerke.de/me/me10/me10_103.htm


ENGELS: NATIVE BLACKS DUMBER THAN AN EIGHT-YEAR-OLD:

Engels. "Notes to Anti-Duehring": "On the other hand, modern natural science has extended the principle of the origin of all thought content from experience in a way that breaks down its old metaphysical limitation and formulation. By recognising the inheritance of acquired characters, it extends the subject of experience from the individual to the genus; the single individual that must have experienced is no longer necessary, its individual experience can be replaced to a certain extent by the results of the experiences of a number of its ancestors. If, for instance, among us the mathematical axioms seem self-evident to every eight-year-old child, and in no need of proof from experience, this is solely the result of 'accumulated inheritance.' It would be difficult to teach them by a proof to a bushman or Australian negro".
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... endix1.htm


MARX: CAPACITY FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPENDS ON RACE:

"The possibility is here presented for definite economic development taking place, depending, of course, upon favourable circumstances, inborn racial characteristics, etc."

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 3/ch47.htm


MORE DISTASTE FOR JEWS:

Marx to Engels, 1875: "In London a sly-looking little Jew got into our carriage in a big hurry, with a small suitcase under his arm."










But not only were they racists. Take this for example. Engels foresaw and welcomed a WORLD WAR:

Engels, London, December 15, 1887: ". . . No war is any longer possible for Prussia-Germany except a world war and a world war indeed of an extent and violence hitherto undreamt of. Eight to ten millions of soldiers will massacre one another and in doing so devour the whole of Eurepe until they have stripped it barer than any swarm of locusts has ever done. The devastations of the Thirty Years' War compressed into three or four years, and spread over the whole Continent; famine, pestilence, general demoralisation both of the armies and of the mass of the people produced by acute distress; hopeless confusion of our artificial machinery in trade, industry and credit, ending in general bankruptcy; collapse of the old states and their traditional state wisdom to such an extent that crowns will roll by dozens on the pavement and there will be no body to pick them up; absolute impossibility of foreseeing how it will all end and who will come out of the struggle as victor; only one result is absolutely certain: general exhaustion and the establishment of the conditions for the ultimate victory of the working class.

"This is the prospect when the system of mutual outbidding in armaments, taken to the final extreme, at last bears its inevitable fruits. This, my lords, princes and statesmen, is where in your wisdom you have brought old Europe. And when nothing more remains to you but to open the last great war dance--that will suit us all right (uns kann es recht sein ). The war may perhaps push us temporarily into the background, may wrench from us many a position already conquered. But when you have unfettered forces which you will then no longer be able again to control, things may go as they will: at the end of the tragedy you will be ruined and the victory of the proletariat will either be already achieved or at any rate (doch ) inevitable".


MARX AND ENGELS WERE NO FEMINISTS:


Engels To Marx, 7 November 1864: "What was obviously fatal to Lassalle was that he didn't immediately throw the creature on the bed at the boarding house and properly have his way with her, she didn't want his beautiful mind but his Jewish rod. This is yet another affair that could only happen with Lassalle."

(There are many other quotes to this effect, including one in which Marx says that his favourite attribute of women is their "weakness", which i can't find right now but will find later.)

[Subversive Rob]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

"If you are a dialectical materialist, however, Marx's racism does not matter. You do not believe in the conclusions of one person but in the validity of a mode of thought; and we in the Party, as dialectical materialists, recognize Karl Marx as one of the great contributors to that mode of thought. Whether or not Marx was a racist is irrelevant and immaterial to whether or not the system of thinking he helped develop delivers truths about processes in the material world. . . . John B. Watson once stated that his favourite pastime was hunting and hanging N*****, yet he made great forward strides in the analysis and investigation of conditioned responses."
Huey P. Newton

The personal judgements of Marx and Engels in no way refute the validity of their theoretico-political system of thought.

Also, much of these quotes come before Marx or Engels were major philosophical or economic theorists.

"I begin to understand French anti-Semitism when I see how many Jews of Polish origin and with German names intrude themselves everywhere, arrogate everything to themselves and push themselves forward to the point of creating public opinion in the ville lumiere

Understanding != to approval.

: "The capitalist knows that all commodities, however scurvy they may look, or however badly they may smell, are in faith and in truth money, inwardly circumcised Jews, and what is more, a wonderful means whereby out of money to make more money."

Although a racial stereotype, I'm not sure how far I'd go in calling this racist, for more in this regard see Hal Draper.

"England, it is true, in causing a social revolution in Hindoostan, was actuated only by the vilest interests, and was stupid in her manner of enforcing them. But that is not the question. The question is, can mankind fulfil its destiny without a fundamental revolution in the social state of Asia? If not, whatever may have been the crimes of England she was the unconscious tool of history in bringing about that revolution".

Marx had an incorrect view of global capitalism, his diffusionist view has been superseded by Lenin's model of imperialism and dependency theory. But this is merely a function of the concrete circumstances in which he lived.

"Upon the whole it is, in our opinion, very fortunate that the Arabian chief has been taken. The struggle of the Bedouins was a hopeless one, and though the manner in which brutal soldiers, like Bugeaud, have carried on the war is highly blamable, the conquest of Algeria is an important and fortunate fact for the progress of civilisation.

See above.
I cannot be bothered to go through all of these, however what I have said for some remains valid for others. Let me just remind you that Marxism is not merely the thoughts and opinions of Marx and Engels, it is a way of analysing reality that has incorporated and been enriched by many more people than merely Marx and Engels.

So, here are some points.
1] Many of these quotes are taken from letters, and therefore merely express the personal opinion of Marx and Engels, this is irrelevant to me, as a Marxist.
2] Many of these quotes are decontextualised, or entirely misunderstood.
3] Marx and Engels are products of their time, therefore their consciousness has been determined by material circumstances (a tenet of Marxist theory), thus we cannot critique them for the internalisation of norms and tendencies that were prevalent.
4] Not all of this is even objectionable.

[DannyB]

Congratulations, you managed to comment on the least probative (as to my claim of Marx and Engels being racist) of the quotes I gave. And I don't exaggerate when I say that those are the absolute least racist of all the quotes (but still completely racist).

Understanding != to approval.

Then you need a lesson in English as to what 'understand' means in this context.

1 Many of these quotes are taken from letters, and therefore merely express the personal opinion of Marx and Engels, this is irrelevant to me, as a Marxist.

And quite consistent with the rest of their works. Part of an entire system of thought.

2] Many of these quotes are decontextualised, or entirely misunderstood.

Provide examples.

3] Marx and Engels are products of their time, therefore their consciousness has been determined by material circumstances (a tenet of Marxist theory),

That doesn't change anything. I am not criticizing.

4 Not all of this is even objectionable.

I never argued that any of them are objectionable.

[DannyB]

Here are some, but not all, of the more racist quotes. But many of the others are straight from works like Capital and Antidurhung and integrated with the rest of the thought, not excerpts from letters.



MARX SPEAKS OF "REPULSIVE JEWISH FACIAL FEATURES": (Reminds me of Hitler.)

Marx to Antoinette Philips, March 24, 1861: "This young lady, who instantly overwhelmed me with her kindness, is the ugliest creature I have seen in my entire life, with repulsive Jewish facial features."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/cw/volume41/



ENGELS DIDN'T THINK ALL RACES WERE EQUAL:

(He believed that the Yugoslavs in particular should be wiped out.)

"Among all the nations and sub-nations of Austria, only three standard-bearers of progress took an active part in history, and are still capable of life -- the Germans, the Poles and the Magyars. Hence they are now revolutionary. All the other large and small nationalities and peoples are destined to perish before long in the revolutionary world storm. . . . This remnant of a nation that was, as Hegel says, suppressed and held in bondage in the course of history, this human trash, becomes every time -- and remains so until their complete obliteration or loss of national identity -- the fanatical carriers of counter-revolution, just as their whole existence in general is itself a protest against a great historical revolution. . . . Such, in Austria, are the pan-Slavist Southern Slavs, who are nothing but the human trash of peoples, resulting from an extremely confused thousand years of development. . . .The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is progress."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /01/13.htm

(NOTE: THE ABOVE IS NOT FROM A LETTER.)



POLISH JEWS PARTICULARLY DESPISED BY THE FOUNDERS OF MARXISM:

Engels: "We discovered that in connection with these figures the German national simpletons and money-grubbers of the Frankfurt parliamentary swamp always counted as Germans the Polish Jews as well, although this dirtiest of all races, through its lust for profit, could have any relation of kinship with Frankfurt".
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 04/29b.htm (NOTE: NOT FROM A LETTER)

MARX: "NEGROES A DEGENERATE TYPE":

Marx-Engels Correspondence 1866: "For certain questions, such as nationality, etc., only here has a basis in nature been found. E.g., he [Tremaux] corrects the Pole Duchinski, whose version of the geological differences between Russia and the Western Slav lands he does incidentally confirm, by saying not that the Russians are Tartars rather than Slavs, etc., as the latter believes, but that on the surface-formation predominant in Russia the Slav has been tartarised and mongolised; likewise (he spent a long time in Africa) he shows that the common negro type is only a degeneration of a far higher one".
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... _08_07.htm

MARX: SLANDERING BOTH JEWS AND NEGROES IN ONE BREATH:

"I now see clearly that he is descended, as the shape of his head and his hair clearly indicate, from the Negroes who were joined to the Jews at the time of the exodus from Egypt ( unless it was his mother or paternal grandmother who mated with a Negro). But this mixture of Judaism and Germanism with a negro substance as a base was bound to yield a most curious product. The importunity of the man also is negroid...One of the great discoveries of this Negro, which he confided to me, is that the Pelasgians are descended from the Semites. His main proof is that, according to the Book of Maccabees, the Jews sent messenger to Greece to ask for help and appealed to their tribal relationship..."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 07_30a.htm


ENGELS WAS CONTEMPTUOUS OF "N*****"

Letter from Engels to Marx, October 2, 1866: "I have arrived at the conviction that there is nothing to his [Tremaux's] theory if for no other reason than because he neither understands geology nor is capable of the most ordinary literary historical criticism. One could laugh oneself sick about his stories of the N***** Santa Maria and of the transmutations of the whites into Negroes. Especially, that the traditions of the Senegal N***** deserve absolute credulity, just because the rascals cannot write! . . . Perhaps this man will prove in the second volume, how he explains the fact, that we Rhinelanders have not long ago turned into idiots and N***** on our own Devonian Transition rocks . . . Or perhaps he will maintain that we are real N*****."

Source: Quoted by Diane Paul, "'In the Interests of Civilization': Marxist Views of Race and Culture in the Nineteenth Century", Journal of the History of Ideas, Jan-March 1981, p 123. (Werke, Vol. 31, p 256.)



MARX: "CAPITALIST ARE ALL JEWS AT HEART":

Karl Marx, Capital, Volume One, Part II: The Transformation of Money and Capital CHAPTER FOUR: THE GENERAL FORMULA FOR CAPITAL: "The capitalist knows that all commodities, however scurvy they may look, or however badly they may smell, are in faith and in truth money, inwardly circumcised Jews, and what is more, a wonderful means whereby out of money to make more money."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 1/ch04.htm
(NOTE: NOT FROM A LETTER)

ENGELS: NATIVE BLACKS DUMBER THAN AN EIGHT-YEAR-OLD:

Engels. "Notes to Anti-Duehring": "On the other hand, modern natural science has extended the principle of the origin of all thought content from experience in a way that breaks down its old metaphysical limitation and formulation. By recognising the inheritance of acquired characters, it extends the subject of experience from the individual to the genus; the single individual that must have experienced is no longer necessary, its individual experience can be replaced to a certain extent by the results of the experiences of a number of its ancestors. If, for instance, among us the mathematical axioms seem self-evident to every eight-year-old child, and in no need of proof from experience, this is solely the result of 'accumulated inheritance.' It would be difficult to teach them by a proof to a bushman or Australian negro".
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... endix1.htm
(NOTE: NOT FROM A LETTER)

ENGELS' ANTI-SEMITISM AGAINST MR. LASALLE:

"Moreover, this mania of the greasy Breslau Jew, using all sorts of pomades and rouges to pretty himself up, to force himself into the distinguished world -- to "arrive" (even if only to appearances) -- was always repulsive."


"The jewish N***** Lassalle, who fortunately at the end of this week went on a voyage, has happily lost 5000 dollars in poor speculation. It is to me now fully clear that he, as seen by the form of his head and hair, is descended from the negros who linked up with the exodus of Moses from Egypt, if not that his mother or grandmother on the paternal side cross bred with a N*****. This binding of judaica and germanica with the negroid base substance must result in a special product - the intrusiveness of this bourgeois (Burschen) is also N*****."


And I haven't even got to their quotes on the Irish!!

[jaakko]

The topic name was "Marxism is racist", yet ZBG is unable to provide anything to prove his claim according to which Marxism is racism. Marx and Engels could've been racists to a degree or another. That does not make Marxism racist. Darwin for sure was a racist. That doesn't make Darwinism racist.

It might be hard for a person with a Jewish mindset to grasp the difference between religious dogma and scientific theory. That latter does not include all personal opinions its developers may have had.

ZBG's topic claim has been refuted and it's time to stop if there's nothing he can add to it.

[DannyB]

The topic name was "Marxism is racist", yet ZBG

I am not ZBG. I am Bethulah, but strangely by former account was disabled.

My writing is nothing like that of ZBG's, who often writes as though he has dyslexia or something. Quite frankly.

is unable to provide anything to prove his claim according to which Marxism is racism.

The quotes prove it! Heck, some of these are straight from CAPITAL!

MARX: CAPACITY FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPENDS ON RACE:

"The possibility is here presented for definite economic development taking place, depending, of course, upon favourable circumstances, inborn racial characteristics, etc."

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 3/ch47.htm

Marx and Engels could've been racists to a degree or another. That does not make Marxism racist. Darwin for sure was a racist. That doesn't make Darwinism racist.

Except that it's part of their entire system of thought. They systemized racism and antisemitism with the rest of their ideology.

It might be hard for a person with a Jewish mindset

Antisemitism!

I wonder how many Marxists here agree with Engels, who says, " Such, in Austria, are the pan-Slavist Southern Slavs, who are nothing but the human trash of peoples. . . . The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is progress."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /01/13.htm

How many Marxists would agree with Engels that Blacks are dumber than 8 year olds?

Or who would agree with Marx that Black slavery was "progress"?

Tell me, do you agree with your Teacher that we Jews have "REPULSIVE JEWISH FACIAL FEATURES"?

That we are capitalists at heart?

[TROI]

I for one agree with the original poster.

Did you start this account simply to agree with yourself?

[quote="wikipedia, 'Karl Marx and Judaism']Marx himself has been accused of being an anti-Semite, though most critical scholars today tend to reject this argument.1 In "On the Jewish Question," he wrote: "What is the worldly cult of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money."; and continues, "[t]he social emancipation of the Jew is the emancipation of society from Judaism." [2] These passages are often cited by those who accuse Marx of anti-Semitism, but these attempts may distort Marx's work by lifting quotes out of context. For example, a line often omitted by such proponents within the passage cited above, is that Marx was addressing "not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew."

Marx linked what he saw as the overrepresentative (as an ethnic group) role played by Jews in finance and banking not to any inherent Jewish trait, but rather, to an acculturation brought about by hundreds of years of medieval laws, which placed restrictions on the type of labor Jews were permitted to engage in. He expresses a tone of near-sarcastic admiration for Jews who succeeded under capitalism, despite (and arguably, because of) the hindrances they endured by anti-Semitic laws (especially economic ones), and attitudes.

With a measure of irony, Marx goes on to link the emancipation of Jews to an emancipation from capitalism. Still, his focus was not on the Jewish religion, but rather on the (worldly) Jews' particular economic legacy and its material manifestations as directly related to a division of labor imposed on Jews since medieval times; that is, as a direct product of capitalist and precapitalist development.[/quote]

[DannyB]

Marx himself has been accused of being an anti-Semite, though most critical scholars today tend to reject this argument.1 In "On the Jewish Question,

But the evidence doesn't consist of "The Jewish Question". That is quite a minor compared to his thoroughly antisemitic outbursts in Capital and in a number of letters.

Such as, to give only one example:

"We discovered that in connection with these figures the German national simpletons and money-grubbers of the Frankfurt parliamentary swamp always counted as Germans the Polish Jews as well, although this dirtiest of all races, through its lust for profit, could have any relation of kinship with Frankfurt".
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 04/29b.htm (NOTE: NOT FROM A LETTER)

I think only one quote I took from "The Jewish Question" - and it was the least antisemitic of all the quotes I gave.

If any of the quotes I gave you are out of context, I'd sure like to see how.

It's becoming more and more obvious that none of you actually bothered to read any of the quotes I shared.

[TROI]

Looks like ZBG found himself a spell checker.

Still, his focus was not on the Jewish religion, but rather on the (worldly) Jews' particular economic legacy and its material manifestations as directly related to a division of labour imposed on Jews since medieval times

Marx was addressing "not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew."

Those who actively support the interests of the working-class as a whole, without any kind of prejudice. Communists live to unite workers, instead of divide them along imaginery lines, whether based on gender, nationality, race, or ideology.

[DannyB]

Once again, you are talking about his mildly antisemitic "On the Jewish Question", which is nothing compared to his other antisemitic proclamations. I was not talking about that work.

Solidarity with the working class without prejudice? But Marx regarded the Jews as anti-working class:

"And as for the Jews, who since the emancipation of their sect have everywhere put themselves, at least in the person of their eminent representatives, at the head of the counter-revolution -- what awaits them?"
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 11/17a.htm





How could it be more obvious that Marx/Engels had a low opinion of the Jews with quotes like this:


Marx to Antoinette Philips, March 24, 1861: "This young lady, who instantly overwhelmed me with her kindness, is the ugliest creature I have seen in my entire life, with repulsive Jewish facial features."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/cw/volume41/

Engels to Marx: "The Lasalle manoeuvres have amused me greatly, the frizzy Jew-head now has to very charmingly distinguish himself in the red nightshirt and Marquis garb -- from which at every movement the Polish kike looks out. Seeing it must give the impression of louse-like repulsiveness."

Marx: "The jewish N***** Lassalle, who fortunately at the end of this week went on a voyage, has happily lost 5000 dollars in poor speculation. It is to me now fully clear that he, as seen by the form of his head and hair, is descended from the negros who linked up with the exodus of Moses from Egypt, if not that his mother or grandmother on the paternal side cross bred with a N*****. This binding of judaica and germanica with the negroid base substance must result in a special product - the intrusiveness of this bourgeois (Burschen) is also N*****."

And so many others.

But they seem to have hated Blacks even more.


And I would like someone to finally answer my questions:

How many Marxists would agree with Engels that Blacks are dumber than 8 year olds?

Or who would agree with Marx that Black slavery was "progress"?

Tell me, do you agree with your Teacher that we Jews have "REPULSIVE JEWISH FACIAL FEATURES"?

That we are capitalists at heart?

[TROI]

Marx to Antoinette Philips, March 24, 1861: "This young lady, who instantly overwhelmed me with her kindness, is the ugliest creature I have seen in my entire life, with repulsive Jewish facial features."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/cw/volume41/

Could you provide a link that actually works. i.e. links to the thibg you have actually quoted, stop your jew trickery already!

Lol!

Once again, simply because he wrote it in the Jewish question doesn't mean that it doesn't apply to all his references to Jews. KARL MARX WAS A JEW!

Marx was addressing "not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew."

Those who actively support the interests of the working-class as a whole, without any kind of prejudice. Communists live to unite workers, instead of divide them along imaginery lines, whether based on gender, nationality, race, or ideology.

[DannyB]

Could you provide a link that actually works. i.e. links to the thibg you have actually quoted, stop your jew trickery already!

Marx to Antoinette Philips. 24 March 269



It is not available online yet, but even marxists.org admits that it exists.

And this is only one quote among so many others that show the same thing!!

Once again, simply because he wrote it in the Jewish question doesn't mean that it doesn't apply to all his references to Jews.

Show how it applies to "all his references to Jews"?

It obviously doesn't.

KARL MARX WAS A JEW!

There were plenty of Jewish anti-Semites at that time. That doesn't prove anything.

Marx was addressing "not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew."

Perhaps in "On the Jewish question". Clearly not elsewhere.

Those who actively support the interests of the working-class as a whole, without any kind of prejudice. Communists live to unite workers, instead of divide them along imaginery lines, whether based on gender, nationality, race, or ideology.

But he regarded the Jews themselves to generally not support the workings, but to be "at the head of the counter-revolution"!! (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 11/17a.htm)

He had quite a low opinion of them.

[Ixa]

I don't see the point in arguing against these quotes. Marx and Engels were obviously racists. There can be no doubt about that. Why deny it ? It doesn't mean that Marxism is racist, just as Darwin's personal opinions on extraneous subjects do not constitute what we call 'Darwinism', as Jaakko pointed out. Marxism only deals with political economy and some philosophy, not ethnology.

[TROI]

You simply have shit translations for fucks sake and misleading links, for example this quote:

"We discovered that in connection with these figures the German national simpletons and money-grubbers of the Frankfurt parliamentary swamp always counted as Germans the Polish Jews as well, although this dirtiest of all races, through its lust for profit, could have any relation of kinship with Frankfurt".
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 04/29b.htm (NOTE: NOT FROM A LETTER)

Was fabricated or the product of a very poor translation, it doesn't even correspond with the link you gave. Which said:

We discovered that in connection with these figures the German national simpletons and money-grubbers of the Frankfurt parliamentary swamp always counted as Germans the Polish Jews as well, although this meanest of all races, neither by its jargon nor by its descent, but at most only through its lust for profit,

It is not available online yet, but even marxists.org admits that it exists.

And this is only one quote among so many others that show the same thing!!

The letter clearly exists but it is non-verifiable that he says the things you have said he did.

"The possibility is here presented for definite economic development taking place, depending, of course, upon favourable circumstances, inborn racial characteristics, etc."

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 3/ch47.htm

Could you locate this quote in the text for me, as I am not reading through a sizeable chunk of capital just to proove you wrong.

Tell me, do you agree with your Teacher that we Jews have "REPULSIVE JEWISH FACIAL FEATURES"?

I do know alot of pretty ugly Jewish people...

Could you stop quoting translations that suit you and then link to a Marxists.org translations that says something completely different:

Such, in Austria, are the pan-Slavist Southern Slavs, who are nothing but the human trash of peoples, resulting from an extremely confused thousand years of development. . . .The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is progress."

The Marxists.org quote:

But at the first victorious uprising of the French proletariat, which Louis Napoleon is striving with all his might to conjure up, the Austrian Germans and Magyars will be set free and wreak a bloody revenge on the Slav barbarians. The general war which will then break out will smash this Slav Sonderbund and wipe out all these petty hidebound nations, down to their very names.

The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward.

Did you write this shit or have you ripped it off a judeo-fascist website?

[Ombrageux]

Marx and Engels were racist, but then, that was extremely normal for the 19th century. I don't think they can be criticized for that (no more than the many racist liberal thinkers).

However, I find the quote saying that slavery (which has plenty to do with political economy) is desireable and necessary to world trade and industrialization intriguing. In that instance Marx is describing a desireable policy, if the policies (as oppose to off-topic opinions) Marx advocates are not part of Marxism (which is a as much political as economic and social), then I don't know what is.

[Lincoln (m)]

Oh crap, what have I been reading all these years?! I was never exposed to any knowledge of racist use of language in the correspondence of 19th century Europeans, let alone Marx and Engels!!! Could it be they actually penned writings that used some of the idiomatic stereotypes of that day?! Are there no sacred cows? Next will you tell me that Marx cheated on his wife?! Oh the agony. Quick we must exhume the bodies of Amilcar Cabral and Mao Zedong and let them know!

I'm not gonna disagree that they made racist remarks (particularly by the more stringent anti-racist standards of some of us today, in no small part owing to the anti-colonial and national liberation struggles who drew much inspiration and benefit from Marxism). Why would you be surprised to see Eurocentric unpacked enlightenment baggage, or racist European language in the writings of two 19th century European men?

You also have to consider the development of Marxism as a science which contains analysis of new developments, criticisms and rejections. Not a holy aura of doctrinal faith surrounding scripture. Your argument that "Marxism" is racist is refuted.

Also some of these quotes have been portrayed disingenuously. For example Marx did not support slavery in any ethical or political sense. He supported the struggle for abolition as progressive and necessary for human emancipation. What you have lifted is Marx attempting an "objective", non-normative inquiry into the role slavery played in the development of human society (and it existed regardless of his ethical and political objections). It can come across as aloof and insensitive given the actual human implications of the subject matter, but you'd have to be a total shyster to suggest he supported slavery.

Or for example the following quote:

ENGELS DIDN'T THINK ALL RACES WERE EQUAL:

(He believed that the Yugoslavs in particular should be wiped out.)

"Among all the nations and sub-nations of Austria, only three standard-bearers of progress took an active part in history, and are still capable of life -- the Germans, the Poles and the Magyars. Hence they are now revolutionary. All the other large and small nationalities and peoples are destined to perish before long in the revolutionary world storm. . . . This remnant of a nation that was, as Hegel says, suppressed and held in bondage in the course of history, this human trash, becomes every time -- and remains so until their complete obliteration or loss of national identity -- the fanatical carriers of counter-revolution, just as their whole existence in general is itself a protest against a great historical revolution. . . . Such, in Austria, are the pan-Slavist Southern Slavs, who are nothing but the human trash of peoples, resulting from an extremely confused thousand years of development. . . .The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is progress."
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /01/13.htm

(NOTE: THE ABOVE IS NOT FROM A LETTER.)

You removed this from context and framed this as saying Engels didn't think all races are equal. In fact Engels was discussing nations and national cultures not race in any sense of an imagined biological category. This is removed from a text in which he was examining the tendency of nationalities as constituted entities to come into and out of existance at different points, he is not discussing the extermination of actual people. For the record he was also wrong in several of his assumptions (could it be their words are not biblical scriptures!?).

You are not pointing out anything that thousands of revolutionary theorists and thinkers of all descents were not already aware. So seriously dude, get a life.

[Sans Salvador]

DannyB- you may be right to say that Marx and Engels incorporated racism into their system of thought, and that racism may be consistent with it. But this in no way shows that Marxism must be racist, unless you can prove that these views are a logical conclusion of it.

also, Marx and Engles clearly opposed slavery. Look at any of their articles on the American Civil War, for example.

J.- The person who made this thread, however wrongheaded, has done too much actual research to be ZBG.

Could you locate this quote in the text for me, as I am not reading through a sizeable chunk of capital just to proove you wrong.

It's the last sentence above the very large "III. Rent in Kind" header. Your web browser most likely has a function where you can search for any words on a page.

[TROI]

It's shit research though as they it is all fabricated, I doubt he made it up himself, he is too stupid.

I blame ZOG.

[jaakko]

"DannyB" is a racist himself, as he thinks 'nation' has something to do with 'race'. This the racist perception of 'nation', typical to both the 'white nationalists' and the zionists.

J.- The person who made this thread, however wrongheaded, has done too much actual research to be ZBG.

He copied it from somewhere. It doesn't really matter if he's ZBG or not. A perfect copy is equal to the real thing.

Antisemitism!

Say it louder!

Or who would agree with Marx that Black slavery was "progress"?

Where does Marx say so?

Tell me, do you agree with your Teacher that we Jews have "REPULSIVE JEWISH FACIAL FEATURES"?

Frankly, I can't hold my vomit when I see REPULSIVE JEWISH FACIAL FEATURES!!!

[Ombrageux]

Does any have a comment on the quote on slavery being desireable for world trade and industrialization?