In this recent surge of History threads, we have forgotton the Inquisition and their murderous track record.
Well I didn't expect that!
When you crush them, it's only powder. You can't crush us, we're made of steel.
I always expect the Spanish Inquisition. The Portugese on the other hand...
-"No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun." - Pink Floyd
What I want to know is: how did they know if you were a converso to begin with?
I assume you mean the European inquisition as a whole. If so, then thats a pretty fair estimate.
Most people make the mistake of thinking Spain is the only country which had an inquisition, despite the fact theirs was among the most moderate and mild inquisitions in Europe at that time.
The entire population of Europe was only about 50 million when the inquisition started up. Estimated total inquisition death toll = 40000.
The inquisition didn't only target Europeans. It existed in Northern Africa, the Holy Land.
Though, on looking at statistics, 40 million is way off. 50000 or so might be more realistic.
The inquisition continued in the papal states until their destruction.
Considering centuries of existence I don't know how the population at its inception is relevant, even at 0 population growth that would have been the number of people in each generation.
Stop crushing my warped view of the world!
What I don't get is: if you were a converso-or even a Jew in 1933 Germany, couldn't you just change your name or deny your relgion and practice in secret? How did the Inquisition know to come after you?
As you possibly know, Inquisition was founded in France in 13th century, targeting Albigens (Cathars). It extended throughout Europe, reaching Spain in the end of 15th century.
In the rest of Europe, it was installed and "uninstalled" several times, though the most usual way of repression was pogrom (St Bartholomew night, Catholic church burning in Netherlands), expulsion (several expulsions of Jews in France, England etc), witch hunt (Inquisition only killed some dozens) and exclusion (Catholics in UK up to 20th century and repression of Irish).
As said, the death toll of SPANISH Inquisition is around the tens of thousands (at most).
Talking only about Spain, most deaths happened in 16th and 17th century. The number of deaths in 18th and 19th (up to end around 1835) is very low.
The problem with Sp. Inquisition was that:
- It lasted for more than most similar institutions.
- It printed in the minds the hunt for the dissidents.
The reason the Spanish Inquisition is so well known is because of the growth of the Black Legend during the first colonial period. Powers jealous of Spanish power in the 16th and 17th century spread lies about a murderous inquisition, and cruel treatment of non-Christians in the new world. Of course, the whole thing about the supposed "Evil Church in the New World" can be debunked easily. In the British territories, a white race continued foward, and the Indians were wiped out. In Spanish territories, over 70% of the population is mestizo.
The Spanish Inquisition did kill more than other Inquisitions, but it was less severe than the other ones at the same time. Spain was only about two thirds or so Christian, making it the largest multi-cultural Christian kingdom at the time. When looking at how few of the Muslims or Jews actually were killed compared to their populations, the French,Italian, and Portuguese Inquisitions come into mind as much more deadly and restrictive.
In the British the natives were taken out of territory, sometimes involving violence and somethimes not.
Early on it was largely vacated by migration.
In Spainish territory, the Natives were enslaved by the hundreds of thousands and the Spanish soldiers (who had usually come witout wives) used there women for sex as they pleased, resulting in numerous mestizo children even as the natives were worked to death by the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS.
There were also quite a few massacres there too.
How can it be more restrictive than expulsion of all Jews and Muslims or forced conversion?
Well, the competition is tough. I admit Spain has a good place in the race:
- Germany: Cuius regio eius religio: You follow your Lord's religion or emigrate.
- England: Several Jews expulsions. Catholics discriminated up to 20th century. Cromwell policies.
- All Europe: Witch hunt.
- Netherlands: Church arson. How many Catholics remained in Net. in 17th century?
- France: St Bartholomew night: tens of thousands deaths in one night. Expulsions of Jews.
So if the Spanish Inquisition killed 40 million out of a total of 50 million Europeans, all that were left were Jews and Danes.
No wonder the Mohammed cartoon thing kicked up such a fuss.
Instincts or extinction? (choose one)
50 million at a time!.
The inquisition lasted many generations each providing a seperate set of 10's of millions of Europeans.
Your math has a faulty basis.
Just for the record, I don't actually claim the Inquisition killed 40 million. It's more 0of a play on the Stalin thread(s) in this forum.
Though I'm sure the Inquisition must have killed thousands.
If you were a converso (Jew forced to convert to Christianity), how would the inquisition know that? COuldn't you just blend in and practice Judaisim in secret?
You had to be "accused"
I think merely being accused warranted certain penalties even in the absence of corroboration or proof.
This was not an uncommon belief. The act of enslaving the members of the conquered people was not an invention of the Spaniards into colonial America, and should not be treated as such.
What should be noted is that, unlike British or Dutch colonists, who killed any tan skinned person within their borders, the Spanish, Portuguese, and French gave their Native Americans a place in their society, despite it being a low one.
The Black Legend works to say that all the native women were raped. However, most native women willingly married their Spaniard "conquerors". The mestizo grew up in Spanish society, and learned Spanish. If they had been bastards, as you state, the liklihood is the mestizos would have grown up more tied to their native ways, and perhaps forget the idea of Spaniards completely.
The Black Legend further speaks about Catholic cruelty to the Americans.
In 1511, Spain began to take actions to protect their slaves for mistreatment, nearly two centuries ahead of the North American colonists. Dominican protests eventually led to several laws protecting Native Americans from slave labour. In fact, before the 18th century even rolled around, Spain had enacted laws to protect native Americans, laws not enacted by the United States until the early 20th century.
The great evil Inquisition helped protect the rights of the dying Native American race.
Of seperate note, Spanish colonists were thus free to protest about their government. Name one other European country who allowed their peoples to critisize their king's or their country's way of running things?
Many other countries were already well ahead of the Spaniards in their persecution of Jews. Spain was not the first, nor the last, to hold on to an inquisition, and it is merely cited as such due to the Black Legend.
The legend depicts the Spanish Inquisition as cruel and bloodthirsty. The Inquisition already existed in many European countries before it was established in Spain in 1480. It appeared in 1184, and torture was first used in 1252. That was a usual method in the medieval legal system, and its application was much more violent in the secular justice.
http://www.catholicleague.org/catholici ... skych2.htm
Only if the father abandoned them.
Anyway according to most accounts the native women didn't have quite the same reluctance towards sex out of wedlock you might expect, men having (if not marrying) multiple women were common.
Yep, and they imported Africans were possible because they could endure harder labor and were not considered quite the same as the natives.
In the north, only Africans were slaves.
Don't forget the 1502 expulsion of Muslims!
Everyopne was all about "Kill the heretics" then, so it's nothing new really.
The body politic, as well as the human body, begins to die as soon as it is born, and carries itself the causes of its destruction.