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The Macedonians, the Greeks, and the Communists
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar 2007, 01:08
The Macedonians, the Greeks, and the Communists

By Prof. Dr. Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis


Published by Ireneusz Adam Slupkov, in London and Szczecin (2006), the research concerns "The Communist Party of Greece and the Macedonian National Problem 1918 – 1940"; one should suggest this book to EU decision makers a key to the formation of a rightful decision.

The Balkan peninsula has long been considered as Europe’s tinderbox; and with good reason! With so many languages, ethnic groups (or peoples), and religious systems, the Balkans lived their most peaceful period of their millennia long history during the Ottoman rule that last lasted between 400 and 600 years (per different regions). As natural continuation of the Eastern Roman Empire, the Sublime Gate ensured peace and tolerance to a great number of peoples at a time of merciless and inhuman wars in the multi-divided and constantly disputed territories of the defunct Western Empire. The Ottoman Empire’s scholarly, scientific and artistic superiority over the various state forms of Western Europe was undisputed until the beginning of the 17th century. However, the rise to preponderance of a bogus-Islamic, theological – ideological sect, namely the Hanbalite followers of Ibn Taimiya and his obscurantist and barbaric system, led the Ottoman Empire to collapse and the Islamic Civilization to definite and irreversible extinction. From 1600 to 1800 the Ottoman Empire became the Sick Man of Europe, and a century later it died out. The parallel rise of the Western European nationalist and colonialist states exposed the Balkan peoples to hatred, discord, local conflicts and regional wars that have not ended so far.

Macedonia


If the Balkans have been identified as home a great number of well diversified peoples and cultures, their best miniature is by definition Macedonia; at this point we use the name as geographical term encompassing preset territories of the Republic of Macedonia, Greece and Bulgaria. Macedonia was for millennia long inhabited by the Macedonians, an ancient people – markedly different than the surrounding Ancient Thracians, Illyrians, Pelasgians, Phrygians, Hittites, and Greeks.

The best revelator of the dramatic differences that separated the Macedonians from the Greeks in as late periods as the reigns of Philip and Alexander II of Macedonia are Demosthenes and a pleiad of orators, philosophers and illustrious statesmen, who did not accept Alexander II as possible leader – let alone King or Emperor – of the Greeks.

There are many reasons for this, and one must bear in mind that the Ancient Greeks were never a people, let alone country! The Achaeans, the Ionians, and the Aeolians had always difficulties either to understand one another (so different their respective languages were) or to merge into one country. The Dorians have been considered as alien element, and the struggle of the three former peoples against the earlier substrate of the Pelasgians has been illustrated from epics to drama. To some of these peoples the Semitic Phoenicians were apparently closer, and we know very well that without the Phoenician colonies in the Aegean Sea and the Phoenician infiltration in Athens, there would never be a sort of democratic society in Attica; it was all imported. Others were certainly closer to the Hittites, particularly the earliest element, the Achaeans. Thanks to otherwise prohibited Hittite texts, we know that the Ahhijawa (Achaean) crown prince at (probably) Mycenae spent time with his relatives and friends at Hattushas, the capital of the Hittite Empire, in the east of Ankara, Turkey. The Aeolians seem to have been closer to the Lydians at the westernmost confines of today’s Turkey. All this serves as example of the falsification of the Ancient History of the Balkans at the hands of colonial, mainly French and English, academic compilers whose works were to be imitated by German, Italian and Russian scholarly competitors, who however never questioned the nature of the colonial fabrication.

Greece

So diverse and inimical to one another the ancient Greek states have been that we can hardly use one appellation to regroup them. The only purpose of forging such a term – that existed for the Ancient Romans as geographical term only – was the modern European colonial powers’ need for academic, scientific, cultural, educational, political and economic control of vast areas they had planned to subdue.

The false model did not represent local knowledge of past, and did not reflect local ideas of History, local values and local cultures. It was exported before the arrival of the military; under pretext of interest for the past, a preconceived, false, vicious and malignantly inhuman version of History was venomously diffused for decades before the arrival of the political agents and the naval forces. Ultimately, this false model engulfed these colonial powers to numerous wars of which they have been victims as well.

How could a version of History that idealizes a ‘Civil War’ (it was a civil war but was presented as such; in Ancient Greek texts it was simply called through geographical terms, Peloponnesiakos polemos, War of / around Peloponnesus) can possibly motivate positively and bring forth anything good for those upon whom it is imposed?

The various Ancient Greek peoples had managed to accept a Supreme Religious and Spiritual Authority: the Oracle at Delphes. When the Macedonians accepted the Achaemenidian Iranian supremacy, the Oracle given to representatives of various Greek states at Delphes was to ultimately accept the rule of Persepolis, a vast universalist and tolerant empire that regrouped all lands between India and Italy. There was no difference East – West according to the supreme knowledge of the Oracle Wise Priests and Elders! Unfortunately, the alien element, the Dorian Spartans, convinced the rest to apostasy. For the blasphemous and perverse needs of this political attitude, a former ‘journalist’ was hired to write anti-imperial pamphlets that became sort of unsolicited, bogus-History, Herodotus. For the imperial needs of modern European colonialists, the Carian (born at Halicarnassus, Caria) – not Greek – impostor became ‘Father of History’!

Yet, colonial Assyriologists and Egyptologists deciphered and published in modern translations thousands of historical texts, Great Chronicles and Annals of extremely sophisticated background that antedate the Carian impostor Herodotus by more than 2000 years, either written in Egyptian Hieroglyphics or engraved in Sumerian, Assyrian-Babylonian Cuneiform. We should not forget that the Ancient Elamites, the Hurrians, the Hatti, the Hittites and the Cannanites of Ugarit had also their own great historical texts, antedating Herodotus by centuries and/or millennia; all this is well known to the present, disreputable, academic class of postcolonial European academia who keep shamelessly diffusing the same paranoid and racist bogus-historical forgery.

Why they selected the Carian impostor Herodotus as ‘Father of their History’? Simply, because they wished to create an arbitrary, false, absolutely Manichaean, division of the World into East and West, whereby the Lights would belong to the latter (i.e. themselves) and the Darkness would emanate from the East.

How resolutely the ancient Macedonians rejected the pernicious followers of the Herodotus blasphemy, we attest when we read all the inscriptions engraved at Alexander’s request: "Alexander and the Greeks, except the Lacedaemonians", the latter being an ordinary appellation of the Dorian Spartans.

The racist academia of Europe seem to insolently forget that, if Athens were possibly a model, Alexander would not opt for Babylon as his Capital.

Persisting on the racist fabrication, bogus-historians of the European universities camouflage the historical reality that Pharaoh Ptolemy II of Macedonian descent had as supreme political model and considered as ideal statesman Amenhotep son of Hapou, a high administrator of the times of Amenhotep III, who lived more than 1100 years before the times of Ptolemy II.

Cleisthenes and Alkiviades either could not be held as ideal statesmen or, as Greek, they meant nothing to a Macedonian like Ptolemy II.

Modern Balkans

All these Western fabrications were not primarily anti-Ottoman, although the target was also the destruction of the surviving under the Sultan Oriental Roman State that the uncivilized Franks were hating for more than 1000 years. They were expressions of primordial and inhuman hatred addressed against all the peoples of the Balkans and Anatolia, whose potentialities in terms of comprehension, intuition, speculation, humanity and fruitfulness are higher than those of the colonial powers. Only multi-divided and turned one against another, these peoples would leave the colonial expansionists pursue their plans without any hindrance.

Rich conceptual thinkers and intellectuals like Rega Velestinli (how Greek name and surname!) were envisaging a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious, democratic Imperium to supplant the Sultan’s power to the benefit of all the peoples of the Eastern Roman Empire. Of course, he has been completely misinterpreted by the modern Greek state for nationalistic abuse and for truth masking. But his vision for one state replacing the Ottoman empire is quite telling:

There was no need for a Greek state, a Macedonian state, a Bulgarian state, an Albanian state followed by all the rest that have been the result of undeserved bloodshed and masochistic massacre. As Rega Velestinli would expect, the false fabrication of modern ‘nations’ was so artificial an event that implied not only inhuman practices and murders that reach the level of genocide but also complete denial of the ‘other’s’ real physical existence.

One must not be confused by academic and state disinformation that run top for almost two centuries; the denial did not take the form of rejection of the existence of millions of people. It took the form of the rejection of the existence of these people under the identity they were expressing in their daily lives; by saying identity we refer to language, behavioural system and traditions, cultural life, and religious beliefs. When the administration of a country calls the language of another people ‘idiom’, there we have severe discriminatory and racist practices that of course match with, and are strengthened by, the racist model of forged history that foreigners diffused among the leading educators and administrators of the country in question.

The form of colonial cultural and educational interference was double: either Western Europeans traveled and diffused the historical forgery among the people of the regions they wished to detach from the Ottoman Empire (in order to form the bogus states that suited their colonial imperial needs) or indigenous people started – oddly and iniquitously for what had been historical practice for thousands of years – being selected by consuls, ambassadors and traveling political agents in order to be offered stipendiums to supposedly study abroad! Like this, a certain Adamantios Korais from Izmir (at the western coast of today’s Turkey), the son of nobody to characterize him properly, moved to Montpellier to ‘study’, and fabricate, under due guidance, the educative system of a country that did not exist, but his financiers and educators had already machinated how to fabricate. Like this, Balkan states were to come to existence for the ‘good’ perspective of many wars and abundant arms sales.

The idiotic pupils of the colonial gangsters did not imagine – even not for a second – that the concept of nations did not exist at the times of the Ottoman and the Eastern Roman Empire, and that at those days Arabic for Muslims, and Greek, Syriac Aramaic, Coptic and Armenian for Christians were ‘holy’ languages – support of their respective Scriptures. This historical reality that was very well known in the past was mendaciously and viciously ‘forgotten’ at the times of the Balkan bogus nation-building. Yet, it was a simple historical phenomenon that had happened many times and under various circumstances throughout History; Slavs and Albanians accepting Christianity were gradually learning Greek, Aramaeans accepting Islam were gradually learning Arabic, and Babylonians and Phoenicians accepting Christianity were gradually learning Aramaic Syriac. This would not entail that they would become Greeks, Arabs and Aramaeans. Consequently, no ‘national’ culture could be possibly imposed on them.

To impose the false and alien fabrication of colonially forged ‘History’, the Greek state imposed a bogus-historical dogma for the needs of which the Macedonians were Greeks! It is as simple as that! If Zimbabweans lived at the place of Macedonians, the Zimbabweans would certainly ‘be’ Greek! We heard the nationalistic hysteria of those who were screaming in 1990 – 91 ‘Macedonia is Greece’. Quite unfortunately for them, Demosthenes is a far more authoritative source than their chauvinistic fever; we will always opt for Demosthenes when it comes to an evaluation of who is Greek and who is not. And Macedonians of all times were never Greek.

From Demosthenes to the Greek Communists

Yet, some light of truth was shed in Modern Greece; at a moment of frontal opposition to the Greek nationalistic establishment, Greek Communist admitted realities the dimensions of which come down to our days. This is what fresh research brings as groundbreaking conclusions.

Published by Ireneusz Adam Slupkov, in London and Szczecin (2006), the research concerns "The Communist Party of Greece and the Macedonian National Problem 1918 – 1940". It is a well written, objective and pertinent study of the policies pursued by the Greek Communist Party during the critical period between the two world wars.

Perfectly articulated, the book contains an introduction, and five chapters on
- The Problem of Nationalities in Europe and the Policy of the Comintern,
- The Communist Party of Greece and the Policy of "Neither Statehood nor Nationhood" (1918-24),
- The Communist Party of Greece and its Policy of "Statehood without Nationhood" (1924-31),
- The Communist Party of Greece and its Policy of "Nationhood without Statehood" (1935-40), and
- The Real Reasons for the Greek Communist Party's Change of Policy towards the Slogan of a "United and Independent Macedonia".

After the Conclusion, the author offers a valuable section including bibliography, appendices and maps; as key documents - thus far unpublished and unfocused - are presented in English translation by the multilingual author, one should suggest this book to EU decision makers a key to the formation of a rightful decision. Widely known, this book is also expected to cause an earthquake to the ailing but surviving Greek Communist Party that has been characterized by a nationalistic centrifugal deviation these last years.
Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar 2007, 01:08
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PostPosted: Tue 03 Apr 2007, 11:29
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: This is one of the best fantasy articles i have ever read.......Keep it up!! all need a good laugh these days!!!
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 02:02
Serious websites republished my article that I have also posted here; to mention just one, I paste here the link:
http://www.casadelest.org/foro/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=470

I find myself very satisfied that the realities described drew attention from highly educated people, intellectuals and academia from allover the world.

Even happier makes me the fact that some ludicrous people found these realities as 'fantasy'; this shows how much unprepared they are for the things to come!

Better than I hoped!

Certainly the world would be a poorer place without these comical charlatans, who think that mercilessly executed genocides will ever be forgotten or left without due response!
Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis
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PostPosted: Sun 08 Apr 2007, 13:21
Macedonians had always Greek names, toponyms, ways, heroes, gods, dialect and spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World. If any modern white people do the same things we Greeks will accept them as Macedonian, that is Greeks.

Blood and dna are not related to ethnicity at least within a race(color). We Greeks do know this since the times of Herodotus and Issocrates. If you think that we are wrong then you might let us educate your chilfren: We promise that we will not change their blood.

We don't care about what Greeks were before being Greek, but for historic reasons.

Herodotus was not Greek because he was from Caria? Give us a brake, will you ??!!

Yes, Peloponnesian war was a civil war, that is between Greeks. Thudcydides knew pretty well: "ἐξανέστη ἄπαν τὸ Ἑλληνικόν" (e3anestê apan to ellênikon) wrote he.

Alexander's model wasn't Athens but older Greeks: Hercules, Achilles. You know, Macedonians were living in the era of Homer when southern Greeks read Aeschylus, Euripides, Thucydides... Anyway, Macedonians called Euripides to teach them the new Greek Civilization in their own language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pella_katadesmos

Regas called all peoples around to hellenize themselves: to become Graikoi. He knew where the Light comes from.

Ottoman occupation was a yoke for all Balkans and Turks themselves. We Greeks were about 10,000,000 people before Ottomans but about 5,000,000 after Ottoman collapse. Byzantine Empire was the Centrer of the World and Ottoman Empire was the centre of the Dark.

Demosthenes said what he said, during Macedonian+Thessalian versus Athenian+Theban conflict about Greece's domination. It was just another civil war. Read more here: http://www.network54.com/Forum/415923/m ... 1122318428

Greek Communist Party recognized for a while a Macedonian ethnic identity under presure of Comintern and dictator Stalin. Now, in the times of freedom it knows and claims: Macedonians have always been Greeks.

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
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PostPosted: Sun 08 Apr 2007, 15:02
The ridiculous posting by Istor is Neo-Nazist propaganda, and the moderators have either to delete it or to prove that the entire forum has been diverted to Pro-Nazi European ideologies, and theories of the Arian race.
Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis
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PostPosted: Sun 08 Apr 2007, 15:44
I have seen plenty of posts in the net, coming from this comical charlatan trying to cover behind the veil of respected 'historian', his hate and racism for certain countries and cultures. In fact in certain forums they are still laughing with his ludicrus French-hating racist articles.

Anyway a small tip for you "professor" that even a 10 years old kid knows.

Next time before you humiliate yourself in public *again* TWICE, just learn that Alexander II of Macedonia is...an entirely different person than Alexander the Great.

In reality, Mr clueless 'professor', Alexander III of Macedon was given the title "The great".

Some handy sources to start filling your encyclopaedical ignorance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_II_of_Macedon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_great

Keep amusing us!!
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 01:50
Let me quess:

In this forum whoever disagrees with some other forumers is nazi or clueless or ....

Stay to the point please.

Where did I confuse those two Alexanders mr. Jason? (If you are speaking to me!!!)

In final: Macedonians had always Greek names, toponyms, ways, heroes, gods, dialect and spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World. If ANY modern white people do the same things we Greeks will accept them as Macedonian that is Greek.

If you have any objection to my claims above, let's talk about. Avoid insults: you just proof your lack of arguments. If this is the case, be brave and accept my truth: Macedonians have always been Greeks.
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
Last edited by Istor on Mon 09 Apr 2007, 04:10, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:48
Quote:
Macedonians had always Greek names, toponyms, ways, heroes, gods, dialect and spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World. If any modern white people do the same things we Greeks will accept them as Macedonian, that is Greeks.


You are wrong there. Macedonians were a seperate people, that adopted Greek cultural, via a slow proccess of assimilation.

They spoke a half-Greek language, and although elites were more hellanised than the common people, they were a distinct people from Greeks, and were recognised as such from ancient times.

I do not like people who say other people's nations are not proper 'nations'.

In general, if a nation exists, the nation exists.

There is no valid reason to make Macedonia part of Greece, since the two people's had been recognised as different from early times.

It is people like you, that caused all the strife in the Balklands, with you arrogant dismissal of the right of other nations in your area to exist.
Overall, the PoliticsForum quiz considers you a socially-orientated, theist, big-government, nationalist, protectionist, controlled-market kind of person, who also seems quite Marxist.

Economic Left/Right: -9.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 04:14
"Macedonians had always Greek names, toponyms, ways, heroes, gods, diaelct and spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World"

Do we agree with those data?

If yes, the conclusion is natural: Macedonians have always been Greeks.

If not, I would like to see your arguments.
Istor
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 05:16
Well, I am glad that people enroll in this forum to insult me, thinking I do not know their real identity, the one hidden behind their nicknames.

I do not need to apologize for revealing the criminal role of the gangster state of France, Europe's worst cemetery of peoples.

The forthcoming explosion will burn Paris out, reducing the murderous Freemasonic (and therefore antihuman) elite to well deserved ashes.

Cemetery of peoples - France is the place of the murder of the identity of the Basques, the Catalans, the Corsicans, the Occitans, the Bretons, and the Alsatians, who all struggle for their freedom and independence.

What a ludicrous assumption of an illiterate and uninvited interlocutor, who miserably thinks that I made a mistake by calling Alexander the Great as Alexander II!

Of course, Alexander the Great was not Alexander III, but - precisely as I said - Alexander II.

The 10 years old kid will certainly laugh at you, your barbarism, and your fake and gangster-like imposed 'History'.

And even worse for you, the 10 years old kid will lynch you and all those who committed the criminal act of trying to forge a bogus Macedonian history!

To count idiotically Alexander the Great as Alexander III, one has to first accept - and this is good for non specialists to learn - that the son of Amyntas I, named Alexander, was indeed Alexander I. But he was not!

The reason is simple; Alexander I was peacefully submitted to the Iranian Empire, and acted as representative of Mardonius, the Persian Satrap. At those days, Macedonia belonged to the Iranian Empire, and was not an indepe4ndent country; in doing so, Alexander shed his right to the throne of an independent country, being therefore a simple Iranian civilian!

He died without ever being a king, because simply you cannot be a king and a low level administrator of the invader of your kingdom at the same time!

So, the son of Amyntas I was not Alexander I, as comically the Neo Nazi Greeks who forge the Macedonian History assume, and criminally want to propagate.

That is why Alexander the Great is Alexander II.

In addition, the supposed bibliography that you produce is irrelevant; Wikipedia is a false encyclopedia, created out of a perverse concept, namely that of giving right to write on specialized topics to non - specialists, and according to converging information, the false articles of Wikipedia about Macedon, Alexander II, and other Macedonia related subjects total an amount of 100000 (one hundred thousand) US $ in cash.

Who would refuse to call Alexander the Great as Alexander 20th, when pocketing 100000 US $?
Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 09:39
'Megalomattis' has got to be a spoof. No-one is that much of a cliche. When 'he' spouts some bollocks, and is called on it, he immediately accuses his opponents of being Nazis, of getting money to contradict him, and continues to spout bollocks in contradiction of simple facts - such as

Quote:
Alexander the Great

or Alexander III
born 356 BC, Pella, Macedonia
died June 13, 323 BC, Babylon

King of Macedonia (336–323) and the greatest military leader of antiquity.

Encyclopedia Britannica



And 'he' drags in the recurring theme of hatred for the French, however irrelevant it is to the subject. :lol:
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 11:30
Encyclopedia Britannica is the epitome of Colonial forgery of History. If it were not, they would reveal the mistakes of let's say Arthur Evans.

The pathetic English have not forgotten how their irrelevant Arthur Evans was ridiculed when speaking of a
Palace of Minos in Crete........

Someone should have told this idiotic gangster of Evans:

- You stupid, how can a 'palace' be without .....toilets?

Same for the Britannica's article about Alexander II.

And you Prosthetic Conscience, by insulting me, you just reveal your uncultured nature that will soon have to face (along with many other millions of Nazist/Racist Europeans) all that it deserves:

the rebellion of all the immigrants whose History is Greater than that of the many homosexual English bogus-kings.

Then, you will realize that trashy Britannica was not able to help enough!

But it will be too late for you, and the apostate Freemasonic gangsters of Europe......
Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 13:00
Quote:
Ottoman occupation was a yoke for all Balkans and Turks themselves. We Greeks were about 10,000,000 people before Ottomans but about 5,000,000 after Ottoman collapse. Byzantine Empire was the Centrer of the World and Ottoman Empire was the centre of the Dark.


"The strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must."
Thucydides

lol

I don't care about these petty feelings of yours which lead to this illogical statement. I will simply dismiss it as a narcissitic, dillusional outburst.

Btw, is it right that Macedonia should be called "F.Y.R"? Why is it up to the Greeks to decide what everyone else can call that country?
"God has a special providence for fools, drunkards and the Germans."
- Doomhammer
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 15:19
No, we don't want to tell SlavoSkopians what they are or how to be named but we want to make clear that we are named Macedonians the last 3000 years and they shall respect our rights over that tribal Greek name. Would any German allow any Slavic people be called Bavarian? well, just like Germans we cannot allow SlavoSkopians to monopolize the name of Macedonia. The last 3000 years ALL World refer to a Greek tribe when using the name Macedonia. This will not change because of some brainwashed people.

Anyway, if they want to be named Macedonians they shall be like them and not fake. They shall have Greek names, toponyms, ways, heroes, gods(saints), dialect and be proud of that campaign that Macedonians did to spread greek Language and Civilization to the World.

They could start by toponyms. We could really and gladly help them: Alalkomenai, Idomenai, Axios, Erigon, Heraclea, Atalanta, Gortynia, Antigonea, ... Thessaloniki? Do they san say Thessaloniki, the Macedonian capital name?
Istor
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 16:08
Nazis! :lol: Homosexuals! :lol: Freemasons! :lol:

Boy, this gets better and better. A few months ago, I was worried when Megalommatis advocated dropping nuclear bombs on Iran, just to get them a bit scared. Now I see 'Megalommatis' is just a fake identity someone made up to spam various bits of the internet, in their spare time. They just write about the first thing that comes into their heads, possibly with the help of recreational drugs.

Go on, 'Megalommatis', try and work the Bilderbergers into it. Or chemtrails and black helicopters. Or how Princess Di was murdered by the drug-running Prince Philip, who's really the son of Stalin ... :muha2:
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 21:25
ahhh Mohammed Megalomattis, the accomplished proffessor, many of whose articles "have been used by prominent news sites", has found time to grace us with his presence on this internet forum. what an honour.

Proffessor, there is one bone I'd like to pick with you however; why is it that, in your 'crusade' against 'Greek nationalism' you find it necessary to adopt and promote extreme FYRMacedonian nationalism. Why is it the Greeks who are the "Neo-nazis" when the very people whose fringe, pseudo-scientific theories you are adopting, are in fact often white supremecists? Is it not a fact that FYRMacedonian nationalists promote an idea of "white Macedonians" being violated by "dark" Greeks and Bulgarians? for instance the very scientific book by FYRMacedonian nationalist Aleksandar Donski, entitled "The ethnological differences between the Macedonians and Bulgarians"


Quote:
Image
Cover of "Ethnological differences between Macedonians and Bulgarians" (Macedonian: "Етногенетските разлики помеѓу Македонците и Бугарите") by Alexander Donski. Pictured on the left column are: Alexander the Great, Gotse Delchev and Metodija Andonov Cento. On the right column: two alleged pictures of Middle Age bulgars, and the late Todor Zhivkov


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonism

The FYROMacedonian nationalists, in their attempts to justify an "Macedonian" ethnicity entirely a product of 19th century Serbian/ Bulgarian geopolitics, promote a direct and racially pure link between the Macedonian kingdom of antiquity and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. They have seen fit in their 'gallant' crusade against Greek nationalism to resort to race theory, something the world thought it might have seen the last of in 1945.

An extreme "Macedonian" nationalist and white supremecist site: http://macedoniancivilization.blog.com.mk/node/1301
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Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 21:10
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 21:38
One other thing before I leave for my lunch proffessor Mohammed Megalomattis!!!

According to your own illustrious academic resume you are an Egyptologist is that right? What did you make of the recent, rather saddening, controversy sparked when FYRMacedonian nationalist "scientists" announced they had a break-through regarding one of the most famous archeological findings in Egypt, the Rosetta Stone?

If you didnt hear about it, what happened was the Rosetta stone, famous for the desciphering of the Ancient hieroglyphs, was claimed by FYRMacedonian scientists to have provided another breakthrough! They made the miraculous discovery that the one of the three languages, orignally thought to be demotic Egyptian, was acutally the Ancient Slavic Macedonian script the nationalists of FYROMacedonia had been looking for all these years and hadnt been able to find!!! I mean obviously since Alexander the Great and Ptolemy and his egyptian dynasty were not Greeks as the world had previously thought but actually ethnic Slav Macedonians this was a huge discovery!!! Given your resume says your an egyptologist, what do you agree with your colleagues who sadly were in a concensus that the "Slavic Macedonian" script was one of the most pathetic episodes of archeological revisionsim they had ever seen???


Here is wikipedia's breakdown of the the whole sad saga:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone

Quote:
Pseudoscientific theories

Two university professors in electrical engineering from Skopje,Republic of Macedonia, having received no formal education in either history or archaeology, operating under the auspices of the government funded Faculty of Electrical Engineering in Skopje and presented to the official Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts, are claiming that the "Demotic" script is, in fact, a text related to the "old Slavonic Macedonian language" and is Ancient Macedonian. This contradicts all mainstream interpretations of the Stone and goes against scientific evidence that Ancient Macedonian was not a Slavic language and, not least, that Slavic speaking peoples did not reach the Balkan peninsula until the 6th Century CE. This theory is also promoted by the authorities and church in Skopje[2] as a "2,200 Years Old Script and Text in the "Macedonian" Language".

* See also: Macedonism
Lobby Fodder (say hi & be nice to me!)
Lobby Fodder (say hi & be nice to me!)
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 21:10
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 21:49
Quote:
Btw, is it right that Macedonia should be called "F.Y.R"? Why is it up to the Greeks to decide what everyone else can call that country?


The FYR prefix was established by the interim agreement as a temporary solution until an ideal compromise can be made. Tell me why is it Greece's fault when the FYRMacedonian constitution of 1991 basically outlined their aggressive, nationalist irrendentist ambitions against Greece? Why is it Greece's fault that a solution has not been found when FYRMacedonia has constantly violated the interim agreement? One of the more ridiculous episodes of FYRMacedonian aggression against Greece was the short-lived banknote they produced featuring the white tower of Thessaloniki, Greece's second major city:

Image


I' am a Greek from Macedonia, not the FYRMacedonia. I do not consider myself an "ethnic Macedonian" but a Greek from Macedonia. Neither myself nor Greece would have any problem with FYRMacedonia being named simply Macedonia if they didnt constantly and officially promote racist historical revisionsim, aggressive irredentism and pretty much falsify the hell out of history. I have no problem with a Bulgaria from Macedonia calling himself a Macedonian! I have a problem when the term is used in an artifically ethnic sense to falsify history.

Afterall, the French named a salad after Macedonia, Le'Macedoine, because Macedonia was such a culturally diverse place. At the turn of the century (19th to 20th) there was Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Albanians, Turks, Vlachs, Aremians, Gypsies in Macedonia but not until the mid 19th century did the notion of an ethnic Macedonian exist! Its hilarious Mr. proffessor that in your "academic" struggle against against Greek nationalism you have embraced the white supremecist FYROMacedonian natioanlist movement!
1% Corrupt
1% Corrupt
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 22:43
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 23:44
As I recall someone used the term "bogus-historian"


Quote:
The reason is simple; Alexander I was peacefully submitted to the Iranian Empire, and acted as representative of Mardonius, the Persian Satrap. At those days, Macedonia belonged to the Iranian Empire, and was not an indepe4ndent country; in doing so, Alexander shed his right to the throne of an independent country, being therefore a simple Iranian civilian!


While Alexander I is rightfully defined as such based on the fact that he was the first Alexander of the Temenid dynasty, its quite interesting to note that Mr. Megalommatis ignores the well documented historic fact that Alexander I did indeed rule Makedonia after the Persian retreat which followed their defeat in Plataies. He actually lead the troops that killed the retreating Persians along the Strymon.


Quote:
The Achaeans, the Ionians, and the Aeolians had always difficulties either to understand one another (so different their respective languages were) or to merge into one country.


Not only has Mr. Megalommatis made major breakthroughs in the field of history with his distortions but he also attacks the liguistic field which he obviously, despite his claims, has little to no relation to.
The dialectic forms of the language were mutually intelligible as all linguists and texts indicate, hence why they're titled dialects of the same language and NOT separate languages.

Anyone that has read Thucydides (Attic), Herodotus (Ionic), Alcman or Bacchylides (Doric) or Sappho (Aeolic) knows that all these dialectic forms are indeed mutually intelligible and thus these claims are obviously product of clear ignorance or mallicious intent.


Quote:
To some of these peoples the Semitic Phoenicians were apparently closer, and we know very well that without the Phoenician colonies in the Aegean Sea and the Phoenician infiltration in Athens, there would never be a sort of democratic society in Attica; it was all imported.



Now we find Mr. Megalommatis' own version of Bernal's Black Athena.

Mr. Megalommatis is selectively using Herodotus' version of the story, a Herodotus which he further down dares to title "impostor" !

But why use the "imposter's" version dear Sir, a Herodotus which you obviously deem of little to no value (not to neglect to mention that you implicate him in the great "western conspiracy theory") when you could look into Aristotle which clarifies that the killers of tyrant Ipparchus were not Phoenicians (not the Gephyraei), but Hellenes and to be exact the democratic brothers Armodius and Aristogeiton, and for that the Athenians made celebrations in their honor!!

Anyway, instead ofo posting quotes upon quotes which indicate why Herodotus' account may be questioned (since that isn't the point of debate) lets simply note the lack of archeologic finds in Athens or the lack of an answer to the simple question indicates how absurd this claim is.
Had the Phoenicians allegedly brought democracy to Athens, why oh why, dear Sir did they not practice it in Phoenicia?


Quote:
Others were certainly closer to the Hittites, particularly the earliest element, the Achaeans. Thanks to otherwise prohibited Hittite texts, we know that the Ahhijawa (Achaean) crown prince at (probably) Mycenae spent time with his relatives and friends at Hattushas, the capital of the Hittite Empire, in the east of Ankara, Turkey.




"Otherwise prohibited".. is this some form of attempt to imply conspiracy :?:
Besides the conspiracy theory presented by Mr. Megalommatis, we witness yet another distortion of the facts of the text in question.
He obviously finds it extremely difficult to comprehend that relations between kings of neighboring kingdoms do not indicate that they are of the same breathen. The Achean royals as clarified in the text in question, did indeed visit the Hittite capital but that was solely to study the art of charioteers and not due to blood ties as he fallaciously suggests.


Quote:
So diverse and inimical to one another the ancient Greek states have been that we can hardly use one appellation to regroup them. The only purpose of forging such a term ? that existed for the Ancient Romans as geographical term only


And to think that he titles himself a "historian" !

The intentional (its more than simply obvious by now) distortion of history continues..

The term "Hellas" or Greece were not coined by Romans but even prior to the founding of Rome not to mention its later conquests, we find in Hesiod's "Works and Days" not only the name of Hellas refering to the country in his "Works and Days 653" (ἄγειραν Ἑλλάδος ἐξ ἱερῆς)

but also clear reference to the "race of the Hellenes" in "Works and Days 528" (βράδιον δε Πανελλήνεσσι φαείνει)

But even if we were to look at the term "Greek" used by Romans (although we previously find it in Aristotle), we'd find that it again is not used to describe a geographic region as Mr. Megalommatis fallaciously claims, but the well known degratory term "Graeculi" found in several of Cicero's texts (pro Milone XXI. 55, Pro Scauro I. 4, Philippic V I. 14, in Pis. § 68 foll...etc) is refering to the Hellenes as a race and not as a geographic region.



Quote:
How resolutely the ancient Macedonians rejected the pernicious followers of the Herodotus blasphemy, we attest when we read all the inscriptions engraved at Alexander’s request: “Alexander and the Greeks, except the Lacedaemonians”, the latter being an ordinary appellation of the Dorian Spartans.


Where does the intentional distortion of history end???


The above nitpicked quote found in Arrian I, 16, 11 has NOTHING to do with what Herodotus has written and the Lakedaimonians being alleged followers as he claims. The inscription is actually nothing more than Alexander's votive of thanks to Athens to whom he sent 300 Persian panoplies and the intentional distinction of the Lakedaimonians is because they didn't participate, hence why it reads:

Alexander, son of Philip, and the Greeks, except the Lacedaemonians, from the barbarian inhabitans in Asia


Quote:
The racist academia of Europe seem to insolently forget that, if Athens were possibly a model, Alexander would not opt for Babylon as his Capital.



The intentional distortion of history to achieve his purpose is quite frightening. Babylon, that Mr. Megalommatis neglects to add, was literally torn to the ground by the oh so, tolerant Persians in 482 B.C. While it was indeed chosen by Alexander the Great as his new capitαl, this has little to do with it being viewed as a model. Babylon was chosen strictly due to its strategic position, for it would be totally rediculous to chose Athens or even Pella which were on the very edge of his empire.


Quote:
Persisting on the racist fabrication, bogus-historians of the European universities camouflage the historical reality that Pharaoh Ptolemy II of Macedonian descent had as supreme political model and considered as ideal statesman Amenhotep son of Hapou, a high administrator of the times of Amenhotep III, who lived more than 1100 years before the times of Ptolemy II.


What else will we hear !

Amenhotep son of Hapu dear Sir, was not even known as a statesman in Ptolemaic times, he was worshipped as a God, a God of healing to be exact.


Quote:
Rich conceptual thinkers and intellectuals like Rega Velestinli (how Greek name and surname!)............


One would expect that a citizen of this country and a historian even more, would be interested in learning its history accurately (of course presenting it accurately is out of the question as we've already seen)

How is it possible that a historian would ignore that Rigas Velestinlis is nothing more than his artistic name.
His true name was Antonis Kuriazis, Rigas Velestinlis is nothing more than his choice of an artistic name which derives from the name of his village "Velestino" in Thessaly. Similarly in later sources he is known as Feraios (while he never used it himself) which derives from the region's ancient name, Feres.






Quote:
Quite unfortunately for them, Demosthenes is a far more authoritative source than their chauvinistic fever; we will always opt for Demosthenes when it comes to an evaluation of who is Greek and who is not. And Macedonians of all times were never Greek.



Demosthenes dear Sir, proves you to be a pseudo-historian of the worst kind, one that strives to intentionally distort history even though you are totally ignorant of the issue you dare to debate.

YES Demosthenes dear Sir, indeed does provide us with proof that you know not what you write. Demosthenes PROVES that Philip was indeed Hellenic !
Quote:
Demosthenes, On the False Embassy

308] And as for Philip,—why, good Heavens, he was a Greek of the Greeks, the finest orator and the most thorough—going friend of Athens you could find in the whole world.

And yet there were some queer, ill-conditioned fellows in Athens who did not blush to abuse him, and even to call him a barbarian!

Source:
Perseus.tufts/hopper

(the "queer, ill-conditioned fellows" he is refering to is Aeschines, Philips major supporter, the reason for Aeschines' outrage is clarified in lines 304-306 of the same text READ IT !)

Good day.
1% Corrupt
1% Corrupt
Joined: Sun 08 Apr 2007, 12:57
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr 2007, 05:38
Quote:
Neither myself nor Greece would have any problem with FYRMacedonia being named simply Macedonia if they didnt constantly and officially promote racist historical revisionsim, aggressive irredentism and pretty much falsify the hell out of history.


They cannot do this Alexandre.
Because it is as if they said "we are Macedonian but not related to Macedonians". It's just stupid.
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
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