Stir caused by recent fire in Germany - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By Rbns
#1451912
It's time for Germany to give aid to the PKK as Kurdish integration in Turkey is obviously a crime against humanity.

Erdogan is a moron if he thinks anyone with half a brain cares what he wants. Turkey is a miserable country of herdsmen and looters. Its population is as dumb as it is lazy and therefore impossible to integrate in any modern society. Every single Turk who is not willing to assimilate in Germany should be send back to Anatolia where he belongs.

Electricity thieving Turks became victims of their own clumsiness, big fucking deal. The Turkish victim complex shows its ugly face once again. Just because some Turkish thieves died in a fire, it doesn't mean that the evil Germans are out to get the poor victimised Turks.

I never read the rules of this forum, but I bet this post is a clear violation.
User avatar
By Vanasalus
#1451986
Nope, Merkel used the word "assimilation" before. I quite vividly remember it. And I can search for the link if you wish.

Please do.


Sorry, I could not locate it yet.

That being said, Merkel shoudn't make such a commotion about the German-Turkish communities. I understand that they have established parallel communities in Germany which creates worries about integration, but in the end it will diminish and find its respective place. Just like the Italian-Americans had parallel communities and the seperation diminished over time, leading to a more harmonized existence of the Italian-Americans. It takes time and Merkel should understand it instead of bitching about assimilation which will only create more resentment to the process.


Pricesely. These things spontaneously happen at an appropoate juncture. No government should have the tendecy to change it with force and/or pseudo/forece.

What makes Merkel say "The notion of multiculturalism has fallen apart" or "Anyone coming here must respect our constitution and tolerate our Western and Christian roots". hat are the standards of measuring toleration of Christian roots.
User avatar
By Nets
#1452011
Annatar wrote:It's time for Germany to give aid to the PKK as Kurdish integration in Turkey is obviously a crime against humanity.

Erdogan is a moron if he thinks anyone with half a brain cares what he wants. Turkey is a miserable country of herdsmen and looters. Its population is as dumb as it is lazy and therefore impossible to integrate in any modern society. Every single Turk who is not willing to assimilate in Germany should be send back to Anatolia where he belongs.

Electricity thieving Turks became victims of their own clumsiness, big fucking deal. The Turkish victim complex shows its ugly face once again. Just because some Turkish thieves died in a fire, it doesn't mean that the evil Germans are out to get the poor victimised Turks.


Whoa. Chill out Annatar. I like Turkey and Turks. Collectively, they are the best face Islam puts out to the rest of the world.

Annatar, there are good Turks and bad Turks, just like anywhere else.

I think you make several good points about host-country integration, but framing it in bigoted language negates these.
Last edited by Nets on 13 Feb 2008 17:16, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Annatar
#1452038
Annatar, there are good Turks and bad Turks, just like anywhere else.


Obviously. However, in my experience(and the experience of most Germans) Turks tend to be on the bad side far more often than on the good side.

[Admin edit: Cut for violation of rule n°3. Do not do it again.]
User avatar
By Doomhammer
#1452062
Collectively, they are the best face Islam puts out to the rest of the world.

Sigh.

You found a republic, you try to modernize and do eveything imaginable to reject religion and lo... here we are. :|

Obviously. However, in my experience(and the experience of most Germans) Turks tend to be on the bad side far more often than on the good side.

Annatar
Idealogy: National Conservatism

Figures.
:lol:
It would because you probably pay attention to the bad more than the good. I know this because... well most people do it. Yeah. Human nature. We love to externalize everything and we love to see only what we are ready to believe.

large amounts of them also disrespect the law, refuse to work, terrorise the population and foment hate for Germans.

I'm this - - close to saying something which people will condemn me for under Godwin's law.

In anycase, didn't your dear old Max Weber write the same stuff about the poor drunken lazy Catholics?

This goes for most Muslims in Germany but Turks also adhere to an extremely perverse form of nationalism which leads their leader to come to Germany with a disgusting claim to power.

Narcissism. Yeah. Uniquely Turkish thing.

For quite some time I thought that the Turks in Germany simply are a bad example because we let the Islamist Turks in and not the secular ones.

How do you expect many rural Turks to integrate to German society when they failed to integrate into the urbanized society in Turkey?

This recent diplomatic row and the reports by the Turkish media did however show that it's the vast majority of Turks who are backward lunatics and not only the ones in Germany.

I regret asking, but how?

If the USA had to put up with the same shit as Germany does, you wouldn't be particularly fond of Turkey and Turks either.

The next time German does away with its minorities and looses yet another war, I hope its leaders will have enough common sense and prudence to not invite so many workers from so many different places again.


It's time for Germany to give aid to the PKK as Kurdish integration in Turkey is obviously a crime against humanity.

You already are. Get with the program.

Erdogan is a moron if he thinks anyone with half a brain cares what he wants.

You just made a comment that will redeem yourself. :up:

Turkey is a miserable country of herdsmen and looters.Its population is as dumb as it is lazy and therefore impossible to integrate in any modern society.

Wow. Even the resident Greeks here are more politically correct when speaking about Turkey.

Electricity thieving Turks became victims of their own clumsiness

So that's what happened then?
User avatar
By Rbns
#1452079
Doom, please kindly change the topic of this thread.
User avatar
By Annatar
#1452080
In anycase, didn't your dear old Max Weber write the same stuff about the poor drunken lazy Catholics?


What max Weber did write is completely irrelevant to the case at hand. His research was neither confirmed by public opinion nor statistics, while the failure of Turks to integrate themselves is well-known.

How do you expect many rural Turks to integrate to German society when they failed to integrate into the urbanized society in Turkey?


I expect them to behave like good guests because that's what they currently are. If they are unable/refuse to do so they should go home.

I regret asking, but how?


If the Turkish media reports immediately that Nazis burned the house down even though the investigation into the causes of the fire had not even started, it shows the hatred Turks have for Germans, does it not?

I hope its leaders will have enough common sense and prudence to not invite so many workers from so many different places again.


Germany invited relatively few Turkish workers.

Here's the number of Turks living in Germany from 1961 onward:
# 1961: 6.800
# 1971: 652.000
# 1981: 1.546.000
# 1991: 1.780.000
# 1998: 2.110.000
# 1999: 2.054.000
# 2001: 1.998.534
# 2004: 1.764.318
# 2006: 1.738.831

Strangely enough the Italian, Yugoslavian and Greek workers Germany hired integrated themselves into German society. Only the Turks failed to do so.

You already are. Get with the program.


Great news then. :)

So that's what happened then?


According to the latest reports, it's the most likely theory.
User avatar
By Doomhammer
#1452084
Doom, please kindly change the topic of this thread.

Buzz kill. ;)

Germany invited relatively few Turkish workers.

Yes. And most stayed there. Natural increase coupled with regular immigration (which you could have halted if you wanted to) produces this.

Strangely enough the Italian, Yugoslavian and Greek workers Germany hired integrated themselves into German society.

They are all model German citizens then? Well, congratulations then.

Great news then.

We must increase our efforts to colonize your puny countries post-haste.

According to the latest reports

O'rly?

it's the most likely theory.

It probably is.
User avatar
By Rbns
#1452091
Annatar wrote:If the Turkish media reports immediately that Nazis burned the house down even though the investigation into the causes of the fire had not even started

What? I thought the fire was caused by the malfunction of electricity and that the people who lost their lives, including children, were thieves?
User avatar
By Annatar
#1452095
Yes. And most stayed there. Natural increase coupled with regular immigration (which you could have halted if you wanted to) produces this.


And if Germany tries to stop immigration, Turks complain because their import-wives have to learn 400 words of German.
After all forced marriage is a wonderful thing and integral part of Turkish culture. Who is the Federal Republic of Germany to insult Turkishness?
It would obviously be discrimination towards the Turkish population if Germany prevented Turks from acting out their great traditions such as honor killings and forced marriage. After all assimilation is a crime against humanity.

They are all model German citizens then?


Yes, the majority of them are.

O'rly?


Not according to the Turkish media of course. Your media cares more for showing German flags with swastikas in them than for the findings of the investigators.

What? I thought the fire was caused by the malfunction of electricity and that the people who lost their lives, including children, were thieves?


When the Turkish media started their slanderous campaign against the German people, investigation into the cause of the fire hadn't even occured. Now we know more about the case and the evidence is pointing in the direction of electricity theft by the residents of the house as the cause of the fire which makes the residents thieves.
User avatar
By Doomhammer
#1452112
Not according to the Turkish media of course. Your media cares more for showing German flags with swastikas in them than for the findings of the investigators.

When the Turkish media started their slanderous campaign against the German people

Annatar, stop being a pity whore. I don't think the Turkish media even needs to dehumanize Germans while German stereotypes pervade all across the world.

the findings of the investigators.

It'll probably be published once an official explanation is found. You yourself have said that is only a theory.

After all forced marriage is a wonderful thing and integral part of Turkish culture.

prevented Turks from acting out their great traditions such as honor killings and forced marriage.

Wonderful. You have figured it all out.
Those are all customary law here. Really. :roll: Go do some research and stop bleeting out your ignorant notions on culture. You are saying that the Turkish media is altering facts but frankly your grasp of "culture" and "history" reflect typical right-wing propaganda (I don't like to over-generalize people, but you attitude must clearly be reciprocated).

Yes, the majority of them are.

Good.
User avatar
By Vanasalus
#1452122
Every single Turk who is not willing to assimilate in Germany should be send back to Anatolia where he belongs.


Why are you so obsessed with assimilation anyway? What danger can one think of if someone chooses to retain his/her cultural heritage in his/her adopted country?

Why is this a problem for Germans, but apparently not for Americans or for Brits?

Do you think foreign cultures constitute a threat for your “superior” culture or “unique” way of life?


And if Germany tries to stop immigration, Turks complain because their import-wives have to learn 400 words of German.
After all forced marriage is a wonderful thing and integral part of Turkish culture. Who is the Federal Republic of Germany to insult Turkishness?
It would obviously be discrimination towards the Turkish population if Germany prevented Turks from acting out their great traditions such as honor killings and forced marriage. After all assimilation is a crime against humanity.


Nothing but ludicrous hypocrisy... If a blonde German with blue eyes go and marry a foreign girl, who knows not a single word of German, it is OK. But, a darker German with brown eyes cannot do the same thing, since his grandfather was born in Turkey.

If this is not a fascist discriminatory policy, I do not know what it is.
User avatar
By Annatar
#1452127
I don't think the Turkish media even needs to dehumanize Germans while German stereotypes pervade all across the world.


There has not been a single state except Turkey whose media spread anti-German propaganda in recent times. There was conflict with Poland a while back but the Polish media at least had the courtesy not to put the entire German population under general suspicion.

Those are all customary law here. Really.


These are acts which the Turkish state has yet to combat effectively.

Go do some research and stop bleeting out your ignorant notions on culture.


As much as laical propaganda your government spouts, Turkey has always been an Islamic state at heart. Atatürk was a good man but not even his efforts were enough to rid Turkey of Islamic practises such as honor killings and forced marriage. Especially such regions as Anatolia where most of the Turks in Germany originate from are ridden with support for Islamic laws.

What danger can one think of if someone chooses to retain his/her cultural heritage in his/her adopted country?


Because it splits the population into groups. Except Germans, there will be Turkish Germans, Polish Germans, Spanish Germans etc. instead of Germans. Assimilation worked well in the German Empire, I don't see why it shouldn't work now.

Why is this a problem for Germans, but apparently not for Americans or for Brits?


Because Germans haven't sold themselves out to the illusion of a beneficial multicultural society.

Do you think foreign cultures constitute a threat for your “superior” culture or “unique” way of life?


Certain parts do, others don't. Turkish music and cuisine don't threaten Germany's culture, Turkish nationalism does.

If this is not a fascist discriminatory policy, I do not know what it is.


It's a measure to prevent Turkish overpopulation in Germany, accelerate integration and a blow to forced marriage and misogynistic Islamic culture.

Fascism has nothing to do with a selective immigration policy.
Last edited by Annatar on 13 Feb 2008 19:47, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Rbns
#1452134
As much as laical propaganda your government spouts, Turkey has always been an Islamic state at heart.

Really? How is Turkish state Islamic? And how does the current government spout laical propaganda?
User avatar
By Annatar
#1452143
Really? How is Turkish state Islamic?


The Turkish people and their values are deeply rooted in Islam. If you honestly believe that the majority of Turks doesn't follow Islamic teachings, you are fooling yourself.

And how does the current government spout laical propaganda?


The current government is still claiming to uphold the laical values of Atatürk while turning Turkey into an Islamic state.
User avatar
By Doomhammer
#1452155
There has not been a single state except Turkey whose media spread anti-German propaganda in recent times.

I haven't really observed any particular anti-German sentiments in the press but there are xenophobic sentiments that some people hold. It's unlikely to be any different from other countries since Germany isn't exactly the most popular country around (could say the same for Turkey).

These are acts which the Turkish state has yet to combat effectively.

You do realize I was being sarcastic, right? I didn't expect a German person to understand sarcasm as all Germans lack a sense of humour. (Note: Just to make sure you understand, this comment is in fact a clever ploy. It is ironic because it makes refence to you insinuating that only Turkish media denigrates Germans, thus making Germans seem boorish and humourless. However, including this note is a way to make fun of you for the exact reason of not having enough sense of humour to understand an obviously sarcastic remark. So you understand, yes?)
For the record, Turks approve of your cars and work ethic. A tiny minority even approve of Hitler. ;) :lol:

rid Turkey of Islamic practises such as honor killings and forced marriage.

You know, that sort of thing happens in some villages and even then it is a rare occurence. Besides, aren't Euro-liberals very much in favor of upholding every sort of religious freedoms? Heh. :hmm:

Especially such regions as Anatolia where most of the Turks in Germany originate from are ridden with Islamic laws.

Anatolia isn't really a region in the country (if that's what you mean). Since 95% of Turkey is Anatolia and since I don't believe you are implying that these acts are committed everywhere and in high frequency, I think it would be best if you were told that the said acts only occur (and rarely too) in (mostly) rural South Eastern Anatolia.

where most of the Turks in Germany originate from are ridden with Islamic laws.

They stone women and stuff? I am unaware of any such practices in Turkey. Moreover I don't know of any legal provision that encourages sharia law. It would seem that you are probably irked by some of the Turks there saying they commit some action which you would normally dissapprove and that they have attributed it to religion (which may be unfounded in some cases because people do stupid stuff and think it's written in some holy text. To be fair, this is a common occurence but I doubt the majority of the forum would be pleased if I were to mention some examples. lol they know who they are).
So you see, it is not the Turks you have a problem with. It is with islam and you project this on to Turks because some of them may appear a bit... well, zealous with their attitudes.

Whatever the case, I would outlaw religion everywhere if it were up to me, but you can't really stop people from being stupid. :hmm:

The Turkish people and their values are deeply rooted in Islam.

It is true for a minority but most people just get on with life "claiming" they are religious but have no problem chugging down beer and raki. ;)

If you honestly believe that the majority of Turks doesn't follow Islamic teachings, you are fooling yourself.

You seem to be an authority on the issue.

The current government is still claiming to uphold the laical values of Atatürk while turning Turkey into an Islamic state.

:up: Would you be interested in being a spokesperson for CHP in Germany? ;)
Last edited by Doomhammer on 13 Feb 2008 20:11, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Vanasalus
#1452157
Because it splits the population into groups. Except Germans, there will be Turkish Germans, Polish Germans, Spanish Germans etc. instead of Germans.


Well, here in USA, I see Korean Americans, Chinese Americans, Jewish Americans, Arab Americans and African Americans everyday, but yet I do not see the friction arising from their coherent coexistence. If you, in Germany, cannot succeed it, there must be some fundamental flaw in your culture and mentality.

Assimilation worked well in the German Empire, I don't see why it shouldn't work now.


I always thought the Nazism rose on the grounds of a peoples yearning for unity and integrity, and it eventually transformed your country into a butchering machine, massacring millions of innocents on the base that they are not German.

I am well aware that expecting different ends with the exactly the same means is a clear sign of ones stupidity.

It's a measure to prevent Turkish overpopulation in Germany, accelerate integration and a blow to forced marriage and misogynistic Islamic culture.


Nothing but empty rhetoric… Since Turks somehow have higher tendency to marry with other Turks, wohalaaaa, their marriages are all "forced marriage".
User avatar
By Oxymoron
#1452159
As I have mentioned previously. all my contacts with Turks have been rather pleasant, they are hard working succesful and friendly people. I dont understand why there is such a conflict in Germany.
User avatar
By Rbns
#1452174
Annatar wrote:The Turkish people and their values are deeply rooted in Islam. If you honestly believe that the majority of Turks doesn't follow Islamic teachings, you are fooling yourself.

I happen to be a Turk and I know my people better than you as you do know yours better than me. But that's not the point. You should explain how Turkish state has always been Islamic at heart.
User avatar
By Annatar
#1452187
A tiny minority even approve of Hitler.


I thought MHP supporters make up more than a tiny minority. :p

Besides, aren't Euro-liberals very much in favor of upholding every sort of religious freedoms?


You don't think I'm a liberal, do you?

I think it would be best if you were told that the said acts only occur (and rarely too) in (mostly) rural South Eastern Anatolia.


Point taken.

They stone women and stuff?


Usually they stab them to death. Mostly for not wearing veils, going out with the wrong men, cheating or living like a German woman.

Moreover I don't know of any legal provision that encourages sharia law.


There are certainly Imams that support the introduction of sharia law. Your premier minister probably does too.

It is with islam


I'm quite aware of my dislike for Islam.

you project this on to Turks because some of them may appear a bit... well, zealous with their attitudes.


Well, Turks are the largest Muslim group in Germany so that has something to do with associating them with Islamic barbary.

Would you be interested in being a spokesperson for CHP in Germany?


I would probably get murdered by all the "Grey Wolves" we have here.

If you, in Germany, cannot succeed it, there must be some fundamental flaw in your culture and mentality.


America is a special case when it comes to immigration and integration as the founding of the USA is directly connected with immigration. People therefore are more tolerant concerning other people's cultures.

Germany on the other hand has always been a monocultural society. Germans like their own culture and want to protect it, there's nothing wrong with that. If immigrants can't accept this, they went to the wrong place.

I always thought the Nazism rose on the grounds of a peoples yearning for unity and integrity


Nazism arose rose on the grounds of the German people's yearning for a lot of things. Nazism however has nothing to do with the present situation of Turks in Germany. If you want to talk about the rise of Nazism, make a thread in the history section.

massacring millions of innocents on the base that they are not German.


The nazis murdered people on the base that they were not Aryan. German Jews were often as German as you can be but were killed.

Since Turks somehow have higher tendency to marry with other Turks, wohalaaaa, their marriages are all "forced marriage".


Turkish immigrants have to learn 400 words. If they are unwilling or unable to do that, they don't deserve to live in Germany. It's that simple.

You should explain how Turkish state has always been Islamic at heart.


Since the foundation of Turkey, the army has been the main upholder of Turkey's secular nature. The Turkish state would have fallen back to the Ottoman's Islamic ways, if it weren't for the army. A state which is truly secular at heart wouldn't have needed the army's intervention or threat of intervention to exist. The constant threats to Turkey's secular nature during its history and the current islamisation therefore lead me to the belief that Turkey has always been Islamic at heart.
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