60% of Israelis say: 'Talk to Hamas' - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in the nations of the Middle East.

Moderator: PoFo Middle-East Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum moderated in English, so please post in English only. Thank you.
#1464658
Poll: Most Israelis Want Truce With Hamas
Two-Thirds Support Talks With Arch-Enemy; Israeli Air Strike Kills 5 Hamas Militants


JERUSALEM, Feb. 27, 2008

(CBS/AP) As Israel's military continues its targeted campaign against Palestinian militants a new poll released Wednesday shows that almost two-thirds of the Israeli public supports direct peace talks with the arch-enemy, the militant group Hamas.

The poll, carried out by the Dialog company and published in the left-leaning Haaretz daily, showed that 64 percent of Israelis believe Israel should talk to Hamas now to bring a halt to the steady barrage of rocket fire from the Gaza Strip and to win the release of a captured soldier, Cpl. Gilad Schalit.

Cpl. Schalit was seized in June 2006 by Hamas militants and has been held in Gaza since then as talks on a prisoner swap have stalled.

"The poll reflects the view among a growing number of Israelis that a truce is the only way to stop daily Palestinian rocket attacks," reports CBS News correspondent Robert Berger.

Only 28 percent of Israelis reject talks with Hamas, according to the poll, that included 500 respondents and had a margin of error of 4 percentage points.

The findings run contrary to Israeli government policy and most of the rhetoric coming from both civilian and military officials. The official line from leaders has been, and remains, that no negotiations will be held with Hamas until the rocket attacks stop and the group recognizes Israel's existence, reports Berger.

Several Hamas officials have proposed a truce with Israel.

Israel's government has opposed a truce with Hamas due to fears the Islamic group which wrested control of the Gaza Strip could use it to rearm for another round of conflict.

However, some Israeli officials have recently expressed support for such talks. Those officials include former heavyweights in Israel's defense establishment and Eli Moyal, mayor of the town of Sderot, which is bombarded almost daily by Gaza militants.

In the short term, the possibility of any cease-fire agreement seems unlikely, given intensifying violence between Hamas militants and Israeli forces.

An Israeli aircraft blew up a minivan carrying Hamas gunmen in southern Gaza on Wednesday, killing five militants, including two key commanders involved in rocket attacks on Israel, the group said.

After the strike, burned bodies in camouflage uniforms were visible in the white minivan. Berger reports Palestinian officials said a senior rocket engineer and a rocket squad commander were among the dead.

The air strike came on the heels of a Palestinian rocket attack on Israel that left a 10-year-old Israeli boy wounded Monday in Sderot. His arm was partially severed and reattached in surgery.

Berger says the number of Israelis supporting negotiations is far more than in previous polls. "The idea of talking to Hamas was once unthinkable because the group was behind dozens of bloody suicide bombings a few years ago and its charter calls for the destruction of Israel.

"But, recently radio talk shows have featured some former defense officials who say the only way to stop the rocket fire is to talk to Hamas about a truce," said Berger, who confirmed the significance within Israel of the Sderot mayor's comments.


Full Story

Of course, this will never happen. Even as we speak, the extremist Israeli government is drawing up plans to invade Palestine and scupper any hope of a negotiated settlement.

I'm intrigued too, that 60% of Israeli see negotiation as a possibility, whereas pro-Israel posters on this forum do not. I can only assume that the posters to this forum represent a more militant extremist viewpoint than the average Israeli might hold.
User avatar
By MVictorP
#1464670
Often, I realized that Israeli-born Jews often are more moderate -and modern- than those of the Diaspora.

The problem, as I can read it, comes from the fact that the zionist establishment in Israel, while a minority, is too-well impregnated in the country's institutions to be relegated at the place it should occupy -40%, according to this article.

And then, there is the fact that, while they priviledge a more paeceful approach, these 60% Israelis may also accept their country's current policies as an acceptable B-plan.
By JieMi
#1464688
Seriously though, what is Hamas going to do when you request a conference? Shoot more rockets, duh. They want land, and Israel isn't going to partition some so that a minority, which can travel to any of the neighbouring countries for political asylum, is appeased.
By Maas
#1464912
sounds like some one has no problems with driving away their aboriginals as long as they can get asylum from an other country.
User avatar
By Arthur2sheds_Jackson
#1465010
Another Israeli opinion poll with slightly differing results

Ha'aretz said:
A vast majority - 81 percent - of Israelis support increasing the targeted killings of Palestinian militants, according to a poll administered by Tel Aviv University's "Peace Index" survey.

The poll also found that 60.5 percent believe that Israel should not reach a cease-fire agreement with the Hamas in which the Israel Defense Forces would cease targeted killings if Hamas stops firing Qassam rockets towards Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/941792.html

I thought 60% was too high a figure.

There isn't a single zionist in here who thinks its worth the effort to conduct dialogue with Hamas, they just want the slaughter to continue.
User avatar
By Oxymoron
#1465011
There isn't a single zionist in here who thinks its worth the effort to conduct dialogue with Hamas, they just want the slaughter to continue




Yes lets see what we can discuss with Hamas:

Hamas' charter (written in 1988 and still in effect) calls for the destruction of the State of Israel and its replacement with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

Hamas head Khaled Mashal speaking in Cairo had clarified that "Anyone who thinks Hamas will change is wrong"

Hamas regards the territory of the present-day State of Israel — as well as the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — as an inalienable Islamic waqf or religious bequest, which can never be surrendered to non-Muslims. It asserts that struggle (jihad) to regain control of the land from Israel is the religious duty of every Muslim (fard `ain)

TV denouncing foreign demands that Hamas recognize Israel's right to exist.[56] After the establishment of Hamas government, Dr Al-Zahar stated his "dreams of hanging a huge map of the world on the wall at my Gaza home which does not show Israel on it...I hope that our dream to have our independent state on all historic Palestine (including Israel). This dream will become real one day. I'm certain of this because there is no place for the state of Israel on this land".
User avatar
By Nets
#1465089
Oxy wrote:There isn't a single Zionist in here who thinks its worth the effort to conduct dialogue with Hamas, they just want the slaughter to continue


Last time I checked I am a Zionist and I think dialogue with Hamas is a good idea. Sure, they are coldblooded monsters, but the PLO* is no different and we talked to them. If dialogue means a cease fire it gets my :up: . Plus, I think they can deliver a hell of a lot more than Abbas, they have disicpline. Al-Aqsa (Fatah) has far less self-control and central planning than Hamas.

Plus, I don't buy the whole non-recognition sticking point. So what, Hamas doesn't recognize Israel -- big shit as if Hamas's stupid recognition was worth anything.

Once again I reiterate, I despise Hamas, and I fully support the current IDF air strikes in Gaza. But if there is a way Hamas can arrange a cease fire on its side ... then talking to it is good.

Talking never killed anyone.


* [I know, that ended up being a disaster. There is blame on both sides for that though.]
User avatar
By Arthur2sheds_Jackson
#1465096
^ Well said NetsNJFan87.

I hereby retract my earlier statement.

It was based on an earlier thread regarding the possibility of dialogue between the two sides in which the prominent zionist nutters in here responded.

I heard every possible attempt to try to justify the ongoing slaughter and every reason not to simply sit down and talk.

Sad really :*(
User avatar
By Nets
#1465114
It was based on an earlier thread regarding the possibility of dialogue between the two sides in which the prominent zionist nutters in here responded.


They disagree with you (and me as well at times). They are not nutters though.

I heard every possible attempt to try to justify the ongoing slaughter


What slaughter? The air strikes?

....and every reason not to simply sit down and talk.


But remember, there are reasons. I think the benefits outweigh the costs, but their are costs here, and I understand the reluctance.
User avatar
By Oxymoron
#1465161
Talking never killed anyone.


Tell that to Chamberlain.

Listen NetJet talking with your enemy is fine and all, but Hamas has no intentions of negotiating.They will sign a cease fire only if they are getting hurt by Israeli air strikes and only for as long as it takes for them to regroup and resume Rocket attacks.

If they would show willingness to compromise Israel will go to lengths to secure peace. Look at the west Bank I dont see airstrikes their, I dont see Rocket attacks. Fatah showed willingness to accept Israel and live in peace but Hamas is a bone in the Palestinians throat.
Last edited by Oxymoron on 01 Mar 2008 00:25, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By MB.
#1465167
That's a pretty witty one liner, but still fucking useless, Oxymoron.
User avatar
By War Angel
#1465180
Talking never killed anyone.

Aye. Forfeiting combat and giving in into talks has, however.

As it were, Hamas itself is not ready to converse with Israel... so even if 100% of Israelis wanted to lick Hamas' bumhole, it would still be pretty pointless.
By sploop!
#1465362
I just want to echo two_sheds' sentiment, and point to what Nets has said as a good example of taking what I feel is a pragmatic and common-sense approach to a problem. Nets appears to be interested in putting peace over dogma, and I think (cold-blooded anti-semite that I apparently am) that is to be congratulated.

I don't expect everyone to shake hands and make up - but I genuinely believe that if you can't talk to your enemy, there is no hope.
User avatar
By Nets
#1465743
Nets appears to be interested in putting peace over dogma, and I think (cold-blooded anti-Semite that I apparently am) that is to be congratulated.


Sploop, it isn't a matter of ideology or dogma, or even peace. It is a matter of which course of action saves the most Israeli lives.

Whether the best option is a military incursion or negotiations can be debated. I happen to think talking in this case is a good idea, but as you said it is a pragmatic view, not a peaceful one. The Gaza Palestinians deserve no peace....but if giving them peace means them reciprocating, then so be it.
User avatar
By War Angel
#1465947
It is a matter of which course of action saves the most Israeli lives.

You've just burnt yourself, my friend. :lol:

Anyway, I think talking is always a good idea. Talking, as in "do as we say or we'll rip you all new arseholes." or possibly "Cease all acts of aggression within 48 hours or be annihilated.", etc. :D
By Maas
#1466083
It is a matter of which course of action saves the most Israeli lives.

In that case
It's a rather dangerous thing to go into palestine and battle Hamas and blow up the ammo factory. The succes of it is rather short term since they'll rebuild everyhing in a couple of weeks and than go on with it.

Outweighing that with a ceasefire result...
Yeah... it's a pitty that such a thing doesn't come with the heroism of war and the kewl explosions that War angle likes
By sploop!
#1473410
Faced with a doomsday scenario, Israel must sit down with Hamas

* Sam Kiley
* The Observer,
* Sunday March 9 2008

Quick to celebrate, and quick to erect the green flags of its movement outside the home of the Palestinian who murdered eight Jews in Jerusalem last week, Hamas is setting the agenda for politics in the region and a trap for Israel.

It is a doomsday scenario and goes like this: Hamas claims responsibility for the Jerusalem murders (which it apparently did on Friday), continues to rain rockets into the Israeli towns of Ashkelon and Sderot, Israel's government orders a massive invasion of Hamas-controlled Gaza to 'topple' Hamas. So far, so local.

But while Israel is flattening Gaza and carrying out Deputy Defence Minister Matan Vilna'i's threat of a shoah or (near) holocaust, Hizbollah launches a massive attack on Israel in the north with modern rockets supplied through Syria by Iran. The US navy, which recently moved three battleships close to Lebanon's shores, is ordered to help defend Israel and fires cruise missiles into Hizbollah and Syrian army positions. Iran retaliates. The rest is ashes.

A bit far-fetched? A narrative for one of Tim LaHaye's 'end time' Armageddon prophecy novels, which sell in their millions to America's Christian fundamentalist audience? Maybe.

Since Israel's disastrous invasion of Lebanon in 2006 in response to rocket attacks and the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers by its fighters, Hizbollah has been itching for a rematch. When Imad Fayez Mugniyeh, Hizbollah's military chief and author of dozens of terrorist attacks, was assassinated last month, the Islamic movement promised bloody revenge.

Hizbollah has no doubt been flooded with military hardware from Iran, where Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has made no secret of his desire to destroy Israel. He also shares some of the fantasies of extremist Christians that the end is nigh, that this is desirable, and that a messiah (or mahdi) will rise out of the ashes of a final battle between good and evil at Armageddon (a real place, now called Megiddo, in northern Israel).

Even if Hamas and Hizbollah's ambitions remain more mundane, trapping Israel into a massive attack on Gaza remains a significant threat to the Jewish state, not least because in a US election year another Middle Eastern conflagration will strengthen growing American fears that Israel is not a strategic asset in the region but a liability.

Hamas remains popular on the West Bank, and dominant in Gaza, as much for what it stands for as for what it is not. It is not the Palestinian Authority or Fatah, the movement founded by Yasser Arafat, which has been in on-off talks with Israel since 1993. The negotiations, from a Palestinian perspective, have yielded nothing, but have produced a class of sharp-suited professional talkers, President Mahmoud Abbas, Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei, and chief negotiator Saeb Erekat among them.

Hamas, meanwhile, has been 'martyred'. Aid from the EU and the US intended to keep the administration of the Palestinian territories alive was cut the moment Hamas was elected in 2006, and is now only channelled to the West Bank, which is under PA/Fatah control.

Since Hamas took over from the PA/ Fatah in a civil war in Gaza last year, the enclave of 1.5 million people has been under a strangulating siege imposed by Israel in response to the Islamic movement's almost daily rocket attacks. Gazans feel collectively punished for the actions of Hamas and are often more likely to support the organisation.

Ahmed Yusef, senior adviser to the Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, (who is in hiding from Israeli attack) said Hamas wanted negotiations with Israel. Although it is committed to the destruction of the 'Zionist entity', he said 'we could put that to one side for five or 10 years and see how peace worked out'.

This is hardly an olive branch. Hamas has been labelled a terrorist organisation by the US, the UK, and most of Israel's backers. Yusef said: 'So what? Negotiations are between enemies, not friends.'

But Hamas's desire for negotiations does offer Israel a way out of Hamas's doomsday trap, and, according to a recent poll in Israel's leading daily newspaper Ha'aretz, 64 per cent of Israelis agree. They said what was until recently unthinkable - that Israel should talk to Hamas.

If Israel defied Washington and talked to Hamas, Palestinian support for its rocket attacks, which in any case cause much more suffering to Gazans than Israelis, would naturally wane and that could lead to the ceasefire the whole region so desperately needs.

source
User avatar
By War Angel
#1473425
Matan Vilna'i's threat of a shoah or (near) holocaust

:roll:

Hizbollah launches a massive attack on Israel in the north with modern rockets supplied through Syria by Iran.

Huh? Why?

The US navy, which recently moved three battleships close to Lebanon's shores, is ordered to help defend Israel and fires cruise missiles into Hizbollah and Syrian army positions.

This is even less likely. Why the hell would the USA intervene? :eh:

Iran retaliates. The rest is ashes.

Ashes where? Certainly, in a fight between Israel & the USA vs. Iran and Hizballah, Israel and America won't be on the losing side... or the ones left in ashes.

If Israel defied Washington and talked to Hamas, Palestinian support for its rocket attacks, which in any case cause much more suffering to Gazans than Israelis, would naturally wane and that could lead to the ceasefire the whole region so desperately needs.

Mmm, NO. Based on past experience (so much past experience.. *sighs*), the Palestinian support of terror attacks NEVER wanes, certainly not because of peace-talks, which only piss them off further.

Isn't oil and electricity bought and sold like ev[…]

@Potemkin I heard this song in the Plaza Grande […]

Russia-Ukraine War 2022

The "Russian empire" story line is inve[…]

I (still) have a dream

Even with those millions though. I will not be ab[…]