[sploop!]

Last Updated: Thursday, 6 March 2008, 09:15 GMT

Gaza conditions 'at 40-year low'

Gaza's humanitarian situation is at its worst since Israel occupied the territory in 1967, say UK-based human rights and development groups.

They include Amnesty International, Save the Children, Cafod, Care International and Christian Aid.

They criticise Israel's blockade on Gaza as illegal collective punishment which fails to deliver security.

Israel says its military action and other measures are lawful and needed to stop rocket attacks from Gaza.

Israel pulled its troops and settlers out of the Gaza Strip in 2005, but retains control over Gaza's airspace and coastline, and over its own border with the territory.

Israel's Defence Ministry rejected the criticism in the report, blaming the Hamas militant group which controls Gaza.

"The main responsibility for events in Gaza is the Hamas organisation, to which all complaints should be addressed," a statement read.

'Disaster'

The groups' report, Gaza Strip: A Humanitarian Implosion, says the blockade has dramatically worsened levels of poverty and unemployment, and has led to deterioration in education and health services.

More than 1.1 million Gazans are dependent on food aid and of 110,000 workers previously employed in the private sector, 75,000 have now lost their jobs, the report says.

"Unless the blockade ends now, it will be impossible to pull Gaza back from the brink of this disaster and any hopes for peace in the region will be dashed," said Geoffrey Dennis, of Care International UK.

Last week Israeli forces launched a bloody and destructive raid in northern Gaza, in which more than 120 Palestinians - including many civilians - were killed.

Israel says the measures are designed to stamp out frequent rocket fire by Palestinian militants.

Recent rocket attacks have hit deeper into southern Israel, reaching Ashkelon, the closest large Israeli city to the Gaza Strip.

Occupying power

The UK-based groups agree that Israel has the right and obligation to protect its citizens, urging both sides to cease unlawful attacks on civilians.

But they call upon Israel to comply with its obligations, as the occupying power in Gaza, to ensure its inhabitants have access to food, clean water, electricity and medical care, which have been in short supply in the strip.

"Punishing the entire Gazan population by denying them these basic human rights is utterly indefensible," said Amnesty UK Director Kate Allen.

"The current situation is man-made and must be reversed."

Other recommendations from the groups include international engagement with the Hamas movement, which rejects Israel's legitimacy and has been shunned by Israel's allies, and the Fatah party of Palestinian West Bank leader Mahmoud Abbas.

"Gaza cannot become a partner for peace unless Israel, Fatah and the Quartet [the US and UN, Europe and Russia] engage with Hamas and give the people of Gaza a future," said Daleep Mukarji of Christian Aid.

source

Sanctions causing Gaza to implode, say rights groups

Ian Black, Middle East editor The Guardian, Thursday March 6

Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are living through their worst humanitarian crisis since the 1967 war because of the severe restrictions imposed by Israel since the Islamist movement Hamas seized power, a report says today.

Movement is all but impossible and supplies of food and water, sewage treatment and basic healthcare can no longer be taken for granted. The economy has collapsed, unemployment is expected to rise to 50%, hospitals are suffering 12-hour power cuts and schools are failing - all creating a "humanitarian implosion", according to a coalition of eight UK humanitarian and human rights groups.

The data was collated before the recent escalation in Hamas rocket fire and Israel's incursion, which saw 106 Palestinians, at least half of them civilians, killed in five days alone. One Israeli civilian and two soldiers were killed in the same period.

The situation in Gaza is "man-made, completely avoidable, and with the necessary political will can be reversed", say the groups, which include Oxfam, Amnesty and Save the Children.

In Jerusalem yesterday the US secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, said she had received assurances from Israeli and Palestinian leaders that they would resume the peace negotiations suspended by the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, after the Gaza offensive. Rice gave no time frame but said Abbas had not made the resumption conditional on a ceasefire.

The NGOs said that while Gaza's 1.5 million Palestinians had seen a "long-term pattern of deterioration" stemming from decades of occupation and from sanctions on Hamas, "the severity of the humanitarian situation has increased exponentially due to the Israeli government's imposition of the blockade in response to indiscriminate rocket fire against Israel".

The depth of the crisis was underlined by last month's mass breakout across the border into Egypt and by the latest violence. Israel has reportedly asked UN agencies to examine opening up "humanitarian corridors", possibly anticipating further large-scale military action to suppress Palestinian rocket fire.

The report challenges the Israeli argument that Israel is no longer bound by the laws of occupation since it "disengaged" from Gaza in summer 2005.

It also urges the UK and EU to condemn the blockade and calls on Tony Blair, representing the Quartet of Middle East peacemakers (the US, EU, UN and Russia), to make a statement on the extent of the humanitarian crisis. Israel and the Palestinians should agree to reopen the crossings into the strip and both sides should halt attacks, the report says.

Geoffrey Dennis, chief executive of Care International UK, said: "The escalation in violence, from rocket attacks and military strikes, will make life even more unbearable in Gaza. Unless the blockade ends now it will be impossible to pull Gaza back from the brink of this disaster and any hopes for peace will be dashed."

The appeal follows a report by John Dugard, the UN special rapporteur on Palestinian human rights in the occupied territories, in which he described Palestinian terrorism as the "inevitable consequence" of Israeli occupation and laws that resemble apartheid. Palestinian terrorist acts are to be deplored but "must be understood as being a painful but inevitable consequence of colonialism, apartheid or occupation", wrote Dugard, whose report accused Israel of acts and policies consistent with all three. Israel dismissed his conclusions as one-sided and inflammatory.

source

I noticed the following words: apartheid, colonialism, occupation, illegal, disaster, humanitarian, crisis, blockade, deterioration, 106, implosion, indefensible, obligations, bloody, destructive. I noticed that Tony Blair is completely fucking useless as a peace envoy. I noticed Israel blaming Hamas.

I didn't notice much action.

[Ter]

Yes, well, there is this small matter of rockets being shot into Israeli civilian areas on a daily basis. Palestinian children are taught to hate the Israelis from a young age, by their parents and in school. Suicide terrorism is glorified. And then Israel is blamed.

By the way Sploop, I am getting very tired of these useless discussions. I really don't want to hear "legitimate resistance" one more time, because then I will have to say "the right to self-defence". And then we can all go back to the situation before 1948 and commiserate with what happened then.

Ter

[Oxymoron]

The Elected goverment of the people of Gaza are shooting rockets into Israel that is called WAR!

[sploop!]

By the way Sploop, I am getting very tired of these useless discussions.

You have the right not to take part, of course, but you should hang on in there...

Personally, I think it's news when a state goes about the destruction of a people. I don't think the discussion is useless, though. It wouldn't be much good me advocating negotiation if I am unable to stick at it myself, even when there seems to be no hope that we are going to understand eachother.

This is a political forum. It's about people engaging with viewpoints that differ from their own. If we all agreed, this forum would be pointless. And if we all said 'Well, we've done Israel' then we'd never discuss Israel again, and that would be a (war) crime.

The Elected goverment of the people of Gaza are shooting rockets into Israel...

Are you sure that is true, Oxy? I'm not convinced.

[Oxymoron]

Are you sure that is true, Oxy? I'm not convinced.

Your not convicinced that rockets are being shot into Israel?

[Nets]

Are you sure that is true, Oxy? I'm not convinced.

Srsly?

Fawzi Barhoum, a spokesman for Hamas in Gaza, said that like Hezbollah, Hamas had “gone from the stone to the rocket.”......Hamas has claimed responsibility for most of the rocket fire. Hamas took over Gaza last June after routing forces loyal to President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah.

[sploop!]

No, no - I am sure rockets are being fired - I just don't know for sure that Hamas are responsible, although without a doubt they are being held responsible.

Maybe this is a bit like punishing a whole town for the behaviour of the local council's children?

a spokesman for Hamas in Gaza

Hamas seem to have a lot of spokesmen. How can anyone be sure that what is said is representitive of the reality of Hamas. This is where negotiation might help.

[Vanasalus]

The Elected goverment of the people of Gaza are shooting rockets into Israel that is called WAR!

Does Israel recognize that elected government? Nope.
Does Israel recognize independent Palestine? Nope.
Do Gazans enjoy the freedoms that people of the sovereign nations enjoy?
Nope.
Do ordinary Gazans suffer by collective punishment? Yes.
Is their suffering well documented? Yes, it’s been so for decades.
Is the government of Israel being dominated by a bunch of fascist beasts? Absolutely, since 1948.

[Oxymoron]

Does Hamas recognize Israel? Nope
Does Hamas want a two state solution? Nope
Do Israelis suffer collective punishement? Yes
Is their suffering well documented? Yes
Is the goverment of Israel under constant threat of destruction? Absolutely Since 1948

[Vanasalus]

Does Hamas recognize Israel? Nope

Why should they while the opposite side does not recognize Palestine?

Does Hamas want a two state solution? Nope

Too yesterday… As all know, the problem is not about idea of two-state solution. The problem is how it will shape in terms of division of land, rights of refugees, etc.

Do Israelis suffer collective punishement? Yes

Quite true. Israelis suffer from terrorists. On the other hand, Palestinians suffer from terrorism perpetrated by a “democratic” government.

Is the goverment of Israel under constant threat of destruction? Absolutely Since 1948

And of course, Israel needed demons to keep Jewish people, both at home and abroad among Diaspora, in line. As clearly seen from pro-Israel pundits around, she has been quite successful.

[Oxymoron]

Quite true. Israelis suffer from terrorists. On the other hand, Palestinians suffer from terrorism perpetrated by a “democratic” government

Hamas was democratically elected.

The problem is how it will shape in terms of division of land, rights of refugees, etc.

Right and the Palestinian goverment of Abbas is willing to negotiate so is Israel, while Hamas call for destruction of Israel and establishment of a Islam goverment in its place.

And of course, Israel needed demons to keep Jewish people, both at home and abroad among Diaspora, in line. As clearly seen from pro-Israel pundits around, she has been quite successful.

Lets try to keep the conversation civil and on point let it be based on facts not opinion.

[Vanasalus]

Hamas was democratically elected.

There are tens of Palestinian fractions and each fraction has tens of fractions within. I strongly doubt any of the attacks were ordered by Prime Minister Haniye or by his government. As you are quite aware, If it were so, he would have been dead for a long time.

But, issue of fractions is an interesting topic. Traditionally, Israel always seeks to destroy evolution of strong Palestinian leadership. Today Hamas is bad, yesterday Arafat and his Fatah was bad. Before that, first Intifada and the Palestinian intellectuals orchestrating civil uprising were bad. Surely, tomorrow someone else will be the bad guy.

Bad guys change with time for the convenience. But Israel’s dependence on the existence of bad guys never changes. And it will not change until Israel becomes a truly democratic state respecting international law.

Right and the Palestinian goverment of Abbas is willing to negotiate so is Israel, while Hamas call for destruction of Israel and establishment of a Islam goverment in its place.

I have been listening the same song so far. But, nothing really happens in substance. Settlements in West Bank continue to rise, innocent people continue to perish.

Lets try to keep the conversation civil and on point let it be based on facts not opinion.

As far as I am concerned, my manners are quite civilized in this discussion. But, why do seem so appalled from my comments?

[Oxymoron]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/ap_ ... lestinians

Hamas and the smaller militant group Islamic Jihad jointly claimed responsibility for the ambush. Islamic Jihad said the attack was revenge for an Israeli strike Wednesday that killed one of the group's commanders in southern Gaza. Hamas, the larger militant group that rules Gaza, said its men also participated in the attack.

innocent people continue to perish.

In the west Bank?

As far as I am concerned, my manners are quite civilized in this discussion. But, why do seem so appalled from my comments?

No I have no problem with your opinion, but if you want to have a dialouge on the issue then lets concentrate on facts. If not we will just make this into youtube clips and demonization of both parties thread.

[Tonic]

sploop!

A little over 40 years ago, Gaza was controlled by the Egyptians. The implication is that it wasn't so bad when the Israelis were in charge of Gaza but when the Egyptians were in charge, well, that's another story.

Israel has no more responsibility to Gaza. Now it's enemy territory. Even Hamas leader confirms Gaza is not occupied by Israel.

Tue., February 05, 2008

"Make-believe

By Zvi Bar'el



Gaza is not occupied, so why should Israel have any role [at the Gaza-Egypt border crossing] when it has no presence on the border between Egypt and Gaza?" argued Mohammed Nuseir, a member of Hamas' political bureau, on Saturday.

This is an interesting position for several reasons. First, it is the first time an official Hamas representative has explicitly stated that the Gaza Strip is no longer occupied. This means that Hamas will absolve Israel of responsibility for what happens there, as long as Israel no longer actually controls the Gaza-Egypt border.

At the same time, it puts Egypt in the difficult position of being Gaza's only outlet to the world - which means that it will also be held responsible for the Strip's economic plight.


That is exactly what is giving Cairo headaches. Egypt would be happy to serve as a shopping centre for 1.5 million Gaza residents and provide them with services that could bring over $1.5 billion a year into its coffers. But it does not want to be responsible for security in Gaza. Its baseline position - that Gaza is occupied territory, and any solution to its problems is inseparable from a solution in the West Bank - remains unchanged.

Therefore, Egypt has adopted a policy of pretense. It pretends that there is a responsible government in Gaza with which it is willing to negotiate on opening the border crossings, but refuses to recognize this government as the government of Palestine. It pretends that an open-door policy in Gaza can be isolated from a comprehensive political solution, but insists on the necessity of such a solution.

Egypt is not thereby violating any agreements, because it never signed the one made in 2005 concerning the border crossings. The signatories to that pact were Israel, the Palestinian Authority, the European Union and the United States. Yet it is discarding the sanctions against Hamas that the entire Arab world, including Egypt, initially agreed to (but later renounced).

Egypt is also embarrassing PA President Mahmoud Abbas: Not only is it undermining his demand that Hamas restore the situation in Gaza to what it was before the organization's military takeover of the Strip in June 2007, but Abbas will now have to join any agreement that Cairo reaches with Hamas, instead of being in sole control of the crossings. This was evident in the statements made by Abbas' aides over the weekend - that they would "applaud Hamas if it manages to obtain a better agreement than the one signed in 2005."

No deal was signed at this weekend's Egypt-Hamas talks, but the parties are expected to call another meeting soon, to which PA representatives, and perhaps even Abbas, will be invited. The beginnings of an agreement were already evident yesterday, when Egypt and Hamas cooperated in controlling the flow of traffic through the breached border barrier.

Egypt wants to use the border-crossing issue as a lever to promote dialogue between Hamas and Abbas' Fatah faction. But Hamas will now be entering such talks with a big advantage: The border with Egypt will already be open.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/950736.html

[Willravel]

Perhaps if we are to compare the behavior of Israel and Palestine, we should account for the massive differences between them.

Militarily alone, Israel is a superpower. They have a massive military, funding and aid by the US, and are probably capable of taking on Lebanon, Jordan and Syria simultaneously. Palestine barely has a government, their PSS really can't do anything much.

Economically, Israel is one of the strongest nations in the Middle East. Palestine? It's third world in most places.

Israel has the most powerful ally in the world. Palestine sorta has some of the Arab countries, but their support wavers and is usually just in the form of "death to israel" posters on cnn.com a lot of the time.

[Oxymoron]

Militarily alone, Israel is a superpower. They have a massive military, funding and aid by the US, and are probably capable of taking on Lebanon, Jordan and Syria simultaneously. Palestine barely has a government, their PSS really can't do anything much.

So basically your saying that Mexico has a right to shoot rockets into Texas and the US cant retaliate because we are a Superpower.

Your saying that Nepal can shoot rockets into China, and China cant retaliate?

[Willravel]

So basically your saying that Mexico has a right to shoot rockets into Texas and the US cant retaliate because we are a Superpower.

This forum has too many red herrings and strawmen. It's really starting to get on my nerves.

Please reread my post. Where did I say that the differences excused anything? No where. You read that into my post. Besides, the US and Mexico are allies, and the US is not in the practice of annexing Mexico. At least not recently.

Your saying that Nepal can shoot rockets into China, and China cant retaliate?

How about China and Tibet? Can we agree that's a better comparison?

[danholo]

The UK-based groups agree that Israel has the right and obligation to protect its citizens[...]

I disagree. They are proposing no alternative. It's ludicrous to demand one to give hand outs to its enemy.

[Oxymoron]

How about China and Tibet? Can we agree that's a better comparison

Agreed.

Please reread my post. Where did I say that the differences excused anything? No where. You read that into my post. Besides, the US and Mexico are allies, and the US is not in the practice of annexing Mexico. At least not recently.

First of dont get flustered this is just a forum. In any case what was the point you were trying to make by showing the military and financial difference between Hamas and Israel?

[Willravel]

what was the point you were trying to make by showing the military and financial difference between Hamas and Israel?

There are a few back and fourths above in this thread that start with Vanasalus and continue with you. You go back and fourth with comparing them, but it seems rather unfair to put them both in the same basket, really. When you take into account how Israel and Palestine differ, the comparison takes on a different meaning.