[Private]

Fake Shoah Memoir Threatens Holocaust Industry

by PENNY SCHWARTZ (JEWISH TELEGRAPH AGENCY)

(EDITOR'S NOTE: Screenwriter-director David Mamet wrote that in Israel, they have a saying -- "There's no business like Shoah business." Shoah is translated as "Holocaust.")

In the wake of the recent disclosure by the author of a Holocaust memoir that her best-selling book is a fake, historians are worried that such incidents will cast doubt on legitimate Holocaust scholarship and memoirs.

Holocaust deniers already are having a field day with the story, observers say.

A prominent article about the hoax is featured on the Web site of Holocaust denier David Duke, who asserts that the case casts doubt on all "outlandish Holocaust tales."

Deborah Dwork, a Holocaust scholar who says she warned the publisher of the book, "Misha: A Memoir of the Holocaust Years," a decade ago that the book's veracity was suspect, is most concerned about how young minds will be affected by such fakery.

The effect on young people, "who are not grounded in history and who may only vaguely remember talk that a memoir was not true," she said, "opens the door to greater readiness to acceptance of Holocaust denier arguments.

source
===================================

My question is quite simple. Will the effect of the recent fake memoir help the spread of anti-semitism. Can anything be done to stop this spread? I hate that David Duke @$$hole

[Oxymoron]

Any body who believed she lived with wolves is an idiot to begin with. Nobody believes that Merlin was a magician although Archeologist and historians believe that King "Arthur" was real.

[War Angel]

(EDITOR'S NOTE: Screenwriter-director David Mamet wrote that in Israel, they have a saying -- "There's no business like Shoah business." Shoah is translated as "Holocaust.")

Err, no we don't.

Anyway, just 'cause some bitch lied (and if I am not mistaken, she's not even Jewish), doesn't mean the whole friggin' Holocaust didn't happen.

Case closed.

[Nets]

I hate that David Duke @$$hole

For some reason I highly doubt this.

[Frank_Carbonni]

Private, what is it with you and Jews?

Do you, MVictorP, Bright, and Qatz get together and have a massive "The Holocaust Never Happened" Party?

[skinster]

Why do you always dodge the news in favour of personal attacks?

[Frank_Carbonni]

Not always. I just focus on those I do not like.

Maybe if 95% of Private's posts weren't about Jews, I might show him some respect.

[skinster]

Maybe if 95% of Private's posts weren't about Jews, I might show him some respect.

So what if they're about Jews?

It would be better if you were to apply some substance to your posts and discuss the article at hand instead of acting childish with the regular name-calling. This is not just directed at you but others on here who I'm sure know who they are.

[Thompson_NCL]

To be honest I'm really sick of every thread on this forum turning into an attack on Israel or Jews. I am also equally tired of the Holocaust mind you... so ideally we could come to some kind of arrangement here? No more flaming the Jews and they won't mention the Holocaust! Deal?

[Frank_Carbonni]

Okay, I'll add some substance.

This is not uncommon, there have been a number of con-artists throughout the years who have claimed to be Holocaust survivors have used their claims to secure book deals or use it to bilk charities, but that doesn't mean there was no such thing as the Holocaust (like a number posters on here seem to imply).

[skinster]

Thanks.

But I don't think anyone was implying that the Holocaust didn't happen. That would be retarded.

[QatzelOk]

I just focus on those I do not like.

It might be more interesting for everyone if, instead, you focussed on the things you don't understand.

[Private]

Not again. Yawn! Personal attacks again?
People always seem to suppress any information regarding the Holocaust. Nobody in their right mind belives the holohoax conspiracy nutters. There is tons of proof around to show that many Jews died in WWII. Actually the figure is possibly the only thing thats debatable. But that does not even matter. The number was such that it can still be called as a Jewish holocaust. My only concern was the advantage modern nazi's and racists take of situations such as the fake memoirs. By locking them up, the nutters who claim the holocaust did not happen, will only push them underground and recruit more supporter/s. We should be fighting for free-speech and let those fools make their case then refute all their foolish claims, write books, make films, do what is needed to debunk this sh!t once and for all. Thats the only way to tackle the world wide anti-semitism problem.

Here, this is what I am talking about. An example of an idiots claims-

I fielded several calls from CNN producers the other day. "Somebody" had given them my name as someone they might want to interview to provide counterpoint to their coverage today, which predictably will gush in support of all things Jewish. They discussed sending out a camera crew to film me being profiled with my commentary. Obviously, the idea was to get a foil to make look foolish...the typical, inarticulate and irrational "hater" to be vilified on camera. I know that always is the media's agenda when its minions approach me, but I am willing to play along, anyway, because I count on being able to hold my own with anybody on politically-incorrect subjects.

One of them asked if I believed in the Holocaust. "Do I believe Jews died or do I believe 6,000,000 Jews were gassed and cremated?" I responded. The latter, she said. "No - that's complete rubbish, as a little logic will demonstrate," I replied. "Here, let me explain."

"Consider why Germany, fighting a war on two fronts, desperate for fuel and materiel of every sort, would bother to load millions of Jews on railroad cars and transport them hundreds, even thousands, of miles to concentration camps. Camps built specifically to house them, where they would be fed, clothed, even tattooed so they could be inventoried...just to kill them."

"Look," I continued, "it doesn't even begin to make sense. If they wanted Jews dead, they would have done it the same way that Russian Jews had been doing it to millions and millions (20 to 80 million, depending upon to whom you talk) of White Christians for the past thirty years at the time: with a bullet to the base of the skull, wherever they might be found."

There was a long pause. I used it to add: "As my buddy Al likes to say, 'In all of German-occupied Europe, there were 2.4 million Jews. After the war, 3.8 million Jews applied for Holocaust reparations. Tragically, the remaining 6 million were lost.'"

More silence. (I imagined her feverishly taking notes.) "Did you know that WWII wasn't the first time that Jews claimed 6,000,000 of their number were eradicated in a genocidal frenzy?" I asked. "No - no, I didn't," came the tentative response. "WWI," I said. "They made the exact, same claim, but they would like us to forget about that now. And that wasn't the first time either. You might ask what is so magic about the 6 million figure - well, it derives from their Talmud, which teaches that their Messiah will not come until 6 million Jews are slaughtered." I resisted the almost-overwhelming urge to point out that Israel's current Jewish population is just about 6 million and then ask if she believed in religious prophecy.

"How do you know this is true?" she asked.

"Well, the Talmud is there for anybody to read. Besides, they keep changing the plaques at Auschwitz. First it was 4 million killed there, said the memorial plaque, which now has been replaced with a plaque that claims 1.5 million. Even so, the 6 million figure never got knocked down by the 2.5 million Auschwitz reduction." (Go here for a particularly illuminating article which puts the final Auschwitz figure at about 140,000, based on documents released following the Soviet collapse.)

More silence, then she asked if I had any other thoughts on Auschwitz. "Where do I begin?" I began.

"Did you know that, when the Russians were about to "liberate" Auschwitz, most of the Jewish prisoners, including Elie Wiesel, famed Nazi hunter, and Otto Frank, Anne Frank's father, elected to move to another camp with their German captors, rather than await the arrival of the Russians? If the Germans were so bad and such rampant killers, why not wait for the Russians? By the way, did you know that the last part of Anne Frank's handwritten diary was done in ball-point pen, which wasn't even invented until after the end of the war?" (Anne Frank died of typhus before war's end.) "Did you know that Otto has paid court-ordered restitution to at least one individual who claimed to have been hired to write the diary?"

"What about all the pictorial evidence?" she asked.

"Mostly faked," I replied. "All those pictures of skinny people and bodies stacked like cordwood were actually of Czechs and Poles and Germans. And they died of Typhus, which was rampant in the camps, not gas chambers. Simon Wiesenthal, whose Southern California museum is supported by taxpayer dollars, has been shown repeatedly to use faked photographs in his exhibits. A great many photographs were faked for the trumped-up Nuremberg trials, for which German confessions were extracted by torture, a notoriously unreliable interrogation technique. Tellingly, several confessions, written out in English, were signed by German officers, though they didn't speak a word of English.

"There's a famous photo of Auschwitz where smoke from alleged crematoria was added by Wiesenthal to "prove" the existence of ovens. Problem is, eventually the original surfaced, with no smoke to be seen. And Allied flyovers never reported any billowing smoke from any of the camps, either."

"Do you have these pictures?" she asked.

"Yep, and documentary proof of everything I say. And, I can put my hands on it in mere minutes, at most."

For example, now you see it.......now you don't.

The first photo was downloaded from Wiesenthal's own web page at http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/, though removed, of course, once the original was found in Auschwitz Album 1978 (1st edition, Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York, 1978, photo No. 165). No wonder the Jews had to invent a word for that characteristic to which they refer as "chutzpah," a word which simply has no English equivalent.

I went on to point out that there is absolutely no evidence of skinshade lamps, soap rendered from human fat, gas chambers, crematoria or of huge pits of either ash or bodies. More silence. "The sole gas chamber at Auschwitz is acknowledged and now labeled to be a reproduction constructed by the Russians. A phony reproduction, according to camp records."

"Why would they lie about all these things?" asked the CNN producer.

"To engender an ethnocentric feeling of unity among Jews and simultaneously guilt trip all the rest of us into submission. Besides, it's been a huge moneymaker for them. Don't forget the Mossad's motto: 'By Way of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War.'"

New America. An idea whose time has come.

-ed

It is far past time for an international investigation conducted by truly impartial scientists, researchers and scholars into the reality of Auschwitz to properly and as accurately as possible bring history into accord with the facts. Peoples of all religions and persuasions have a right to such facts. So far, as the following data demonstrates, much of it from the world's foremost Jewish Holocaust scholars, we are a long way from a consensus on the truth of what happened at Auschwitz in WWII.

The Plaques At Auschwitz

The ever declining numbers of alleged dead at Auschwitz are graphically illustrated by the plaques from the camp.

The first is the plaque that was on display at the Auschwitz camp from 1948 until 1989 and states "4 million" victims perished.

The second plaque currently on display at Auschwitz has the dramatically reduced number of victims to now only "1.5 million"...a casual reduction in the number of deaths by an incredible 2.5 million.

So, the official deaths at Auschwitz drop by a stunning 2.5 million, but the legendary overall Holocaust figure of 6,000,000 dead remains the same...


The Historically Claimed Numbers Of Dead At Auschwitz

9,000,000

Source: Cited by the French documentary, Night and Fog, which has been shown to millions of school students worldwide.

8,000,000

Source: The French War Crime Research Office, Doc. 31, 1945.

7,000,000

Source: Also cited by the French War Crime Research Office.

6,000,000

Source: Cited in the book Auschwitz Doctor by Miklos Nyiszli. It has since been proven that this book is a fraud and the "doctor" was never even at Auschwitz, even though the book is often cited by historians.

5,000,000 to 5,500,000

Source: Cited in 1945 at the trial of Auschwitz commander Rudolf Höss, based on his confession which was written in English, a language he never spoke. (Note - It is now well-known that severe torture and forced 'confessions' of captured Nazis and military were common before the Nuremberg war crimes trials which were completely dominated and directed by Jews...much to the shock and frustration of non-Jewish prosecutors and staff.*)

5,000,000

Source: Cited on April 20, 1978 by the French daily, Le Monde. Also cited on January 23, 1995 by the German daily Die Welt. By September 1, 1989, Le Monde had reduced the figure down to 1,433,000.

4,500,000

Source: In 1945 this figure was cited by another witness at the aforementioned Höss trial.

4,000,000

Source: Cited by a Soviet document of May 6, 1945 and officially acknowledged by the Nuremberg War Crimes trial. This figure was also reported in The New York Times on April 18, 1945, although 50 years later on January 26, 1995, The New York Times and The Washington Post slashed the figure to 1,500,000 citing new findings by the Auschwitz Museum officials. In fact, the figure of 4,000,000 was later repudiated by the Auschwitz museum officials in 1990 but the figure of 1,500,000 victims was not formally announced by Polish President Lech Walesa until five years after the Auschwitz historians had first announced their discovery.

3,500,000

Source: Cited in the 1991 edition of the Dictionary of the French Language and by Claude Lanzmann in 1980 in his introduction to Filip Muller's book, Three Years in an Auschwitz Gas Chamber.

3,000,000

Source: Cited in a forced confession by Rudolf Höss, the Auschwitz commander who said this was the number of those who had died at Auschwitz prior to Dec. 1, 1943. Later cited in the June 7, 1993 issue of Heritage, the most widely read Jewish newspaper in California, even though three years previously the authorities at the Auschwitz museum had scaled down the figure to a minimum of 1,100,000 and a maximum of 1,500,000. (see below).

2,500,000

Source: Cited by Rudolf Vrba (an author of various fraudulent accounts of events he claims to have witnessed at Auschwitz) when he testified on July 16, 1981 for the Israeli government's war crimes trial of former SS official Adolf Eichmann.

2,000,000

Source: Cited by Leon Poliakov (1951) writing in Harvest of Hate; Georges Wellers, writing in 1973 in The Yellow Star at the Time of Vichy; and Lucy Dawidowicz, writing in 1975 in The War Against the Jews.

2,000,000 to 4,000,000

Source: Cited by Yehuda Bauer in 1982 in his book, A History of the Holocaust. However, by 1989 Bauer revised his figure to 1,600,000.
(Yehuda Bauer is a world famous Jewish historian and scholar of the Holocaust. He is a Professor of Holocaust Studies at the Avraham Harman Institute of Contemporary Jewry at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehuda_Bauer)

1,600,000

Source: This is a 1989 revision by Yehuda Bauer of his earlier figure in 1982 of 2,000,000 to 4,000,000, Bauer cited this new figure on September 22, 1989 in The Jerusalem Post, at which time he wrote "The larger figures have been dismissed for years, except that it hasn't reached the public yet."

1,500,000

Source: In 1995 this was the number of Auschwitz deaths announced by Polish President Lech Walesa as determined by those at the Auschwitz museum. This number was inscribed on the monument at the Auschwitz camp at that time, thereby "replacing" the earlier 4,000,000 figure that had been formally repudiated (and withdrawn from the monument) five years earlier in 1990. At that time, on July 17, 1990 The Washington Times reprinted a brief article from The London Daily Telegraph citing the "new" figure of 1,500,000 that had been determined by the authorities at the Auschwitz museum. This new figure was reported two years later in a UPI report published in the New York Post on March 26, 1992. On January 26, 1995 both The Washington Post and The New York Times cited this 1,500,000 figure as the new "official" figure (citing the Auschwitz Museum authorities).

1,471,595

Source: This is a 1983 figure cited by Georges Wellers who (as noted previously) had determined, writing in 1973, that some 2,000,000 had died.

1,433,000

Source: This figure was cited on September 1, 1989 by the French daily, Le Monde, which earlier, on April 20, 1978, had cited the figure at 4,000,000.

1,250,000

Source: In the book, The Destruction of the European Jews, by Raul Hilberg (1985). (Raul Hilberg (June 2, 1926 - August 4, 2007 in Williston, Vermont) was one of the best-known and most distinguished Jewish Holocaust historians. His three-volume, 1,273-page The Destruction of the European Jews is regarded as the seminal study of the Nazi Final Solution. He was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences on April 26, 2005. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Raul_Hilberg)

1,100,000 to 1,500,000

Source: Sources for this estimate are (Jewish historians) Yisrael Gutman and Michael Berenbaum in their 1984 book, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp. This estimate was later also cited by Walter Reich, former director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, writing in The Washington Post on September 8, 1998. The upper figure of 1,500,000 is (the new) "official" figure as now inscribed at Auschwitz, with the earlier figure of 4,000,000 having been removed from the memorial at the site of the former concentration camp.

1,000,000

Source: Jean-Claude Pressac, writing in his 1989 book Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers. This is interesting since he wrote his book to repudiate so-called "Holocaust deniers" who were called that precisely because they had questioned the numbers of those who had died at Auschwitz.

900,000

Source: Reported on August 3, 1990 11, by Aufbau, a Jewish newspaper in New York.

800,000 to 900,000

Source: Reported by Gerald Reitlinger in his book, The Final Solution.

775,000 to 800,000

Source: Jean-Claude Pressac's revised figure, put forth in his 1993 book, The Crematoria of Auschwitz: The Mass Murder's Machinery, scaling down his earlier claim of 1,000,000 dead.

630,000 to 710,000

Source: In 1994 Pressac scaled his figure down somewhat further; this is the figure cited in the German language translation of Pressac's 1993 book originally published in French. Again, this is substantially less than Pressac's 1989 figure of 1,000,000.

135,000 to 140,000

Source: This is an estimate based on documents held by the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross. It is known that International Tracing Service has a complete set of registration documents. This is thought to include a complete set of roll-call data which includes twice daily tallies of those who died. Although the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross has such records, they have never officially published an accurate count of those who died, or even an accurate report as to exactly which documents they hold. However, totals from these records have been obtained by various interested parties.

The estimate of 135,500 is roughly corroborated by the "Auschwitz death books." The death books themselves are wartime German camp records, which were captured by the Soviets towards the end of the war, and hidden in Soviet achieves, until released to the Red Cross in 1989.

The death books consist of 46 volumes which document each death at Auschwitz (each death certificate consists of the deceased person's full name, profession and religion, date and place of birth, pre- Auschwitz residence, parents' names, time of death, and cause of death as determined by a camp physician). The records for the most important years, 1942 and 1943, are almost complete (there are also a few volumes for the year 1941, but none for the year 1944 or January 1945 (when Auschwitz was evacuated)).

The Auschwitz death books contain the death certificates of some 69,000 individuals, of whom about 30,000 were listed as Jews. You may view various entries in the Auschwitz Death Books by clicking on links to the Auschwitz museum.

The Grand Total?

Using all available wartime records from the various camps it has been estimated that between 400,000 and 500,000 people died in the entire German concentration camp system (from all causes).

http://rense.com/general62/auch.htm

Someone (pref- wealthy Israelis) should write books to refute all these stupid claims and make them all look foolish. I might cost loads of dollars, but it would be worth it, imho.

[QatzelOk]

Using all available wartime records from the various camps it has been estimated that between 400,000 and 500,000 people died in the entire German concentration camp system (from all causes).

This is from Rense.com. But who isRense.com?

[Rodion]

might cost loads of dollars, but it would be worth it, imho.

Straight out of Hitler's chat log, I imagine.

[Private]

Straight out of Hitler's chat log, I imagine

I don't know what you mean Rodion. Please explain

Anyway, here is another one of his silly claims. Do you see what I mean?

You might ask what is so magic about the 6 million figure - well, it derives from their Talmud, which teaches that their Messiah will not come until 6 million Jews are slaughtered." I resisted the almost-overwhelming urge to point out that Israel's current Jewish population is just about 6 million and then ask if she believed in religious prophecy.

"How do you know this is true?" she asked.

"Well, the Talmud is there for anybody to read.

Can someone explain what this idiot is talking about?
Does anyone have the Talmudic verse which was taken out of context or misinterpreted?

[War Angel]

Why the fuck are we discussing Holocaust denial? It's such a dumb, boring subject. I mean, if you wanna masturbate to anti-Semitic shit, do it on your own free time, away from this forum, Private.

[QatzelOk]

if you wanna masturbate to anti-Semitic shit, do it on your own free time, away from this forum, Private.

This forum IS free time.

And no one is masturbating to this thread. I questionned the source of those figures, and posted a wiki link.

If you want to be useful, War Angel, why don't you tell us what's wrong with the source that Private posted, instead of just using vulgar words and an aggressive tone to kill a discussion?

[Truth-a-naut]

Do you, MVictorP, Bright, and Qatz get together and have a massive "The Holocaust Never Happened" Party?

It's not just any ordinary party, it's a Nazi party!

[QatzelOk]

It's not just any ordinary party, it's a Nazi party!

This makes no sense.

You can question the accuracy of History without siding with any of the protagonists. To accept our official History as "the truth" is to side with the Allies' post-war propaganda.

In other words, the official History is mired in bias and needs to be seriously questionned if you actually want to get closer to the truth.

If.