Separation of children from mothers in Texas - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#1511462
The San Angelo children, more than 400, are very liable to be separated permanently from their mothers, I read. The State of Texas seems to have convinced the presiding judge, Judge Walthers, that its allegations of abuse of these children are true. The evidence presented does not seem to be in the reports I have seen. What is prominently reported is that the religious leaders of that sect have been teaching that conventional society is bad.

To teach that is not in my judgment, in itself, sufficient to justify the court's action. Other religions also teach that the larger society is bad and filled with the work of the Devil. I think the Amish teach their young a similar view of the outside world. Many arguments are possible to sustain such a belief: our militarism, high rate of incarceration, drug use, destruction of the natural environment.

Another claim in the media is that the leaders of that community do not view the family as the nuclear family that most of us know. Other societies also view the family as a broader group, and in some cultures there are many "fathers" and "mothers" for each child, because they all live together and share parental responsibilities.

I think that unless the children are being physically or sexually abused, Texas may be causing great harm to these children in its do-good frame of mind. So far, no reports claim any pattern of physical or mental abuse.

If we truly believe that government must not impose the predominant religious culture on individuals, then what Texas is doing may be in contradiction of that principal of our constitutional law.
By Zyx
#1511465
goedel wrote:I think that unless the children are being physically or sexually abused, Texas may be causing great harm to these children in its do-good frame of mind. So far, no reports claim any pattern of physical or mental abuse.


The girls of that religious sect were married and sexed at twelve by men more than four times their age and taught to repeatedly reproduce as that was their only duty in life.

Honestly, I would not find it comforting to have those children return to that filthy delusion of a lifestyle. I do not contend that our life is the best, but by gosh that regime was too oppressive for my taste or sympathy.

Texas, the state of Patriarchy, gets my approval for this response. Some practices, no matter how religious, are just improper.

Sorry goedel.
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By Oxymoron
#1511638
I think they are lucky that no further charges are filed against the community for Rape.
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By Nets
#1511650
For once, I'm just going to have to say "ditto" to what Kumatto said, [even if I do object to his near constant use of "sex" as a verb improperly]. These FLDS communes are just Pedophilia rings dressed up as religions. We need more raids, and more child rescues from these sick freaks.
By goedel
#1511829
Yes, those were the allegations, but I did not see any evidence cited in the news reports. For example, I did not see that witnesses were called, (what they acutally said and who they were) who testified to the truth of those allegations. Also, were those allegations, if true, part of a pattern that applied to all of the children, 425 or more of them?

A very large number of cases were heard together in a brief time under circumstances of great media pressure. I understand that the privacy of the children had to be protected, but still I find the circumstances rife with the possibility for Texas-style justice. Texas is the state with close to 400 people awaiting execution and the highest rate of executions in the world.
By goedel
#1512143
I wish to thank those who have expressed their disagreement with me. You are probably right. It's just Texas justice I distrust.
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By Lightman
#1512204
FLDS is a pedophile church. Those children need to be taken away from their abusers, and their abusers need to be punished. Now, foster care is not a good situation, but it's certainly better than being raped.
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By Takkon
#1513272
Moving beyond the legal ramifications, its not the polygamy perse that bothers me, its the reclusive nature of the group that makes me suspicious.

They are only getting so much attention because America finds the idea of polygamy so blasphemous.
By Koga
#1513341
I believe there's a communist seed growing in American soil. And it's starting to crop up.


Oh sure, they claim these cults are dangerous and abusive. I mean let's face it, who doesn't hate slavery and oppression?


But how long before they start accusing you or I?

Because you believe in God?
Or because you refuse to recognize them as God???


I do think cults can be unhealthy, but I see no physical harm done to them, so I can't judge. If being a brainwashed douchebag makes them happy, then let them be happy.


Obviously the same cannot be said about twelve year children, who had no choice in the matter and were simply born into that mess, and maybe child services should intervene.


But you know.. I don't tend to listen to the same government that keeps abortion so easily accessible. By this logic, prochoice women should have their tubes tied and have to wear some sortof patch with a skeleton fetus.


And I see nothing wrong with polygamy or reclusive living. I live recluse. And I wouldn't mind having two or three women jacking me off lol!

Granted I'd never go for polygamy, because I have enough trouble dealing with one person, let alone three. Too much pressure. It's kind of contradictory to be reclusive and polygamy..

But I wouldn't be opposed to it. I think it's stupid and whorish personally. But then I think alot of things are stupid and whorish. Not going to stop you from doing what you want to do unless it involves hurting other people.
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By Lightman
#1513465
The problem isn't the polygamy; on that I could care less. The problem is that they are raping children.
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By Looter
#1513504
When they show pictures of the women, they all have these high foreheads, like they've been inbreeding and they are mutants. I don't know if this is media distortion, but that's the impression I get.
By PBVBROOK
#1513524
Hmmmm. Paedophelia? No good. But marriage at 16 or even younger is legal in most states. :hmm:

Is it rape when one is married? No one is alleging force so this may or may not be statuatory rape at worst.

Just playing the devils advocate...do all of those here who are calling this rape believe that all sex under the age of 18 is rape? Even when consensual? Even in marriage? And should children under 18 be absolutely barred from marriage? Should all arranged marriages, including the very common Hindu marriages in the Indian (dot not feather) community?

This should be easy for the Atheists as they dislike all religious practices but for those of us who believe that religious practice is protected behavior, how far can the state go in interfering? For the libertarians, where is the state's interest in this?

Finally. Are we to conclude that all marriages of girls under 18 include one girl and one paedophile? Consider India. 44% of all girls between the ages of 15 and 19 are already married? Is India a nation of paedophiles?

Jst the devil's advocate here.
By Koga
#1513626
This sort of thing is normal practice in Islamic countries.


Why is it evil when we do it but not when they do it?


I'm just looking for consistency here.
By Syphodias
#1513636
This sort of thing is normal practice in Islamic countries.


Why is it evil when we do it but not when they do it?


Has anyone in this thread actually said that it is evil only when Christians do it? The only reason Islam hasn't been mentioned is because this is about one particular incident involving Christians.
By humanrights
#1513698
If we truly believe that government must not impose the predominant religious culture on individuals, then what Texas is doing may be in contradiction of that principal of our constitutional law.


I think that point can be pursued by a good lawyer.

It's goodie-goodies that make me sick whether they're judges, politicians, policemen or cult leaders.

There are principles of natural law that are known to all of us even without pundants, preachers, politicians, professors, pollsters or police telling us what to believe. The French declaration of human rights sums up a few natural rights. So does the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Our own declaration of rights is feeble without ammendments IX and X, but alludes to other rights.

If those girls were in any way pressured into staying in this group against their will, then they had their rights violated. Since they couldn't leave the group without a job, it could be easily proved that they were pressured into something they didn't want to do.

On the other hand, I am pressured into staying with this stupid, evil, brainwashing cult of a government against my will too. Hell, I want out of the cult of brainwashing Americans too!

I want neither Democrats or Republicans to represent me! I want to sucede! I'll never get what I want though. I'm stuck with this government! At least I love the rest of America the way the indians do.
By sploop!
#1513922
What PBVBROOK said. We should leave the religious nut-cases to do their raping thing. We have no right to interfere in the practices of another's religion.

Yeah, right...
By PBVBROOK
#1514071
What PBVBROOK said. We should leave the religious nut-cases to do their raping thing. We have no right to interfere in the practices of another's religion.

Yeah, right...


Can you read? If you gave a tinkers damn about the rights of accused people you wouln't post such garbage. No. Fascists like you want us to "string them up" without a trial. If they are religious they must be bad. You know who you sound like?
By Zyx
#1514087
Image

Oh gosh . . . women are usually pretty.

**strikes incest allowance off cultural pet projects list**

goedel wrote:It's just Texas justice I distrust.


Agreed. That is probably why this sect was allowed to relocate in Texas. Also, notice how none of the male rapis . . . fathers were arrested . . . I feel great that the children were separated from their 'mothers' but the men, who had the power, should have been :x I nearly feel like doing a eugenics argument. :*(

I say, Texas, acting late as it has, is good to have acted, at least.
By Donald
#1514506
From what it looks like these raids are causing more damage than they are helping. It's a bit unusual seeing hundreds of mothers balling their eyes out as the state seizes their offspring.

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