The US is violating the Vienna-convention! - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#1600369
The Mexican citizen Jose Ernesto Medellin has been sentenced to death and his execution is scheduled to August 5, 2008.

This is against the Vienna-convention, of which the US has signed too!

http://www.berlingske.dk/article/200808 ... 708020017/

It's in Danish, but I will translate the most important part:

Jose Ernesto Medellin lived in the US, but he was a Mexican citizen, and according to the Vienna-convention from 1963 any arrested foreigner shall be allowed to talk to a representative from his native country.

In other words: After the arrest the Mexican consul in Houston should have been called. The US has signed the Vienna-convention, and the US clearly violated the convention, said the Mexican government who brought the case for the International Court of Justice in Hague.

The Vienna-convention says »to maintain international peace and security« persons who travel abroad »without delay« shall be allowed to talk to representatives from their homeland., if »they are imprisoned or detained in any way«,

Mexico told the names of 52 of its citizens, who were on death rows in the US, and who were not allowed a consular consultation.

Texas rejected the demand for a new trial, and a circuit court in Texas said that Mexico and Medellin have no demands, but the International Court of Justice reached another conclusion:
The Vienna-convention was clearly violated, and since the US government has signed the Vienna-convention, Texas should obey it too.
By sploop!
#1600390
Here's a bit more on that story...

Supreme Court to Hear Appeal of Mexican Death Row Inmate


By LINDA GREENHOUSE
Published: May 1, 2007


WASHINGTON, April 30 — The Supreme Court on Monday agreed to hear an appeal from a Mexican citizen on death row in Texas whose case has embroiled the World Court, the Bush administration and the State of Texas in a conflict that has only deepened in the two years since the justices last considered how to resolve it.
Skip to next paragraph
Texas Department of Criminal Justice

The World Court found that José E. Medellín did not receive help from Mexico required by a treaty.

The inmate, José E. Medellín, is one of 50 Mexicans on death rows in various states who, the World Court found in 2004, had been charged and tried without the assistance from Mexican diplomats to which an international treaty entitled them.

The United States is a signatory to the treaty, the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, which requires local authorities to inform foreign nationals being held on criminal charges of the right to consult with their country’s diplomats. The requirement was, until recently, widely ignored.

In the World Court, formally known as the International Court of Justice, Mexico sued the United States on behalf of its citizens who had been sentenced to death without receiving the required “consular notification.” The court ruled that the United States was obliged to have the defendants’ cases reopened and reconsidered.

Initially, the Bush administration described Mexico’s suit as “an unjustified, unwise and ultimately unacceptable intrusion in the United States criminal justice system.” But in early 2005, with Mr. Medellín’s death-penalty appeal pending before the Supreme Court, the White House announced that it would abide by the World Court’s decision by instructing the states to reconsider the convictions and sentences of the Mexican nationals on death row. The Supreme Court then dismissed Mr. Medellín’s case to enable the Texas courts to comply with that directive.

The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals refused to relax its procedural rules that barred any reconsideration. One of the court’s judges, in a concurring opinion, accused the White House of an “unprecedented, unnecessary and intrusive exercise of power over the Texas court system” — language that echoed the criticism that the administration had once directed at Mexico.

Now, however, the administration has entered the case on Mr. Medellín’s behalf and urged the Supreme Court to overturn the Texas court’s decision. The case, Medellín v. Texas, No. 06-984, will be argued next fall. The government’s brief, filed by Solicitor General Paul D. Clement, told the justices that the Texas court’s decision, if not reversed, “will place the United States in breach of its international law obligation” to comply with the World Court’s decision and would “frustrate the president’s judgment that foreign policy interests are best served by giving effect to that decision.”

Mr. Medellín was a gang member in Houston when he was convicted in 1993 of participating in the gang rape and murder of two teenage girls. In urging the Supreme Court not to hear the case, the Texas solicitor general, R. Ted Cruz, recounted the crime in vivid detail and said that the Texas court had applied its usual rules in concluding that Mr. Medellín was procedurally barred from reopening his case. The president had no constitutional authority to pre-empt the state’s procedural rules, Mr. Cruz said.

Mexico filed a brief on Mr. Medellín’s behalf, noting its desire to provide “critical resources to aid in the defense of its nationals facing the death penalty.” Mexico noted that last month, the Texas court had denied relief to five other Mexican death-row inmates who are also governed by the World Court decision. “Bilateral relations between the United States and Mexico” will “unquestionably” be affected by these cases, Mexico’s brief said.

source

Regardless of whether Mr. Medellin is guilty of committing this horrific crime or not, it seems to me that if you sign up to a convention then you should either abide by it, or withdraw completely. The US doesn't seem to have a particularly good record of sticking to the agreements it signs up to of late. Hopefully that will change when the republicans get kicked out of office at the next election.

Oh, just in case anyone is interested, here's a quick list of those broken treaties, including the Vienna Treaty...

1. Ottawa Treaty (the land-mine ban)
2. Treaty on the Rights of the Child (only holdouts are the U.S. and Somalia)
3. Protocol to enforce the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention (vote was 178-1, the US the only holdout)
4. United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women
5. International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights
6. Convention on Biological Diversity
7. International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families
8. Stockholm Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants (POPs)
9. International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings
10. International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism.
11. Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees
12. Convention on the Non-Applicability of Statutory Limitations to War Crimes Against Humanity
13. Forced Labor Convention
14. Freedom of Association and Protection of the Right to Organize Convention
15. Right to Organize and Collective Bargaining Convention
16. Convention on Consent to Marriage, Minimum Age to Marriage and Registration of Marriages
17. Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness.
18. Convention on the International Right of Correction
19. International Criminal Court
20. Kyoto Accords (greenhouse gas reductions)
21. UN Convention on Biological Diversity (regulating genetic engineering)
22. UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples
23. Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty [prohibiting programs like "Stars Wars"]
24. Basel Convention on the Control of Transboundary Movements of Hazardous Wastes and their Disposal
25. Convention on the Protection and Use of Transboundary Watercourses and International Lakes
26. International Convention against the Recruitment, Use, Financing and Training of Mercenaries
27. International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid
28. Convention concerning Minimum Age for Admission to Employment
29. Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
30. Code of Conduct on Arms Transfers (prohibiting sale of arms to human rights violators & aggressors)
31. Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty
32. Inter-American Convention Against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, and Other Related Materials
33. UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (bans toxic waste dumping, etc.)
34. UN Moon Treaty [declaring the moon part of the Common Heritage of Mankind]
35. Framework Convention on Tobacco Control
36. UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
37. Protocol to enforce the Convention Against Torture
38. United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime
User avatar
By Nets
#1600393
19. International Criminal Court
20. Kyoto Accords (greenhouse gas reductions)


You can't say the US broke treaties it didn't sign.
By sploop!
#1600398
Granted. Maybe this, then

Oh, just in case anyone is interested, here's a quick list of those broken and unsigned treaties, including the Vienna Treaty...

It's an impressive list though, isn't it?
User avatar
By Andres
#1600415
it seems to me that if you sign up to a convention then you should either abide by it, or withdraw completely.
You should read the legal arguments of why he has not received a retrial. The main argument is that the US federal government signed the agreement, not the government of Texas. Since the crime was tried in a state court, the US federal executive has no legal authority (and Bush actually emitted a presidential order ordering the retrials, but it was challenged and overturned in court) to order a state court to retry a case. Basically Bush wants to comply with the treaty, but he is powerless at this time to do so.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#1600420
About America's environmental negligence, Nets wrote:You can't say the US broke treaties it didn't sign.


As an ostensibly Christian nation, America has broken the most important "treaties" of all: the ones it made with the creator of the universe.
By sploop!
#1600440
the US federal government signed the agreement, not the government of Texas.


Does that imply that no treaty signed by the federal government is worth the paper it is written on? Surely this is a get-out clause any state can employ to get out of obligations placed upon it by the federal government? It sounds crazy to me.
User avatar
By Suska
#1600447
Its not as though the Mexicans go out of their way over American criminals, besides this is penny ante stuff compare to other offenses. The Pinky Show makes a fair argument that the war in Iraq is illegal. Ralph Nader calls Bush the most impeachable president America has ever had, I agree.

President Truman: The Charter of the United Nations, which you are now signing, is a solid structure upon which we can build for a better world. History will honor you for it. Between the victory in Europe and the final victory in Japan in this most destructive of all wars, you have won a victory against war itself... If we had had this charter a few years ago, and above all the will to use it, millions now dead would be alive. If we should falter in the future in our will to use it, millions now living will surely die... You have created a great instrument for peace and security and human progress in the world. The world must now use it!

Pinky: The United States was among the first to sign the Charter of the United Nations. Today the UN includes 192 nation members - practically every independent state in the world.

Now, Article 6 of the U.S. Constitution says that any treaties signed by the United States becomes part of the supreme law of the land. In other words, ever since the United States signed the United Nations Charter back in 1945, our nation has been legally bound under international and domestic law to obey all articles of the Charter of the UN. This is why it's so important to study the Charter - many people don't realize that a violation of the Charter is also a violation of the U.S. Constitution.

So what does the UN Charter say about war? Well, first of all the Charter condemns the use of force, by any nation. Participating in armed conflict is illegal in all but two situations.

The first exception is that a country can defend itself if it's attacked by another country. The logic of this 'self-defense' exception is, I think, pretty self-explanatory.

The second exception is that a country may legally use force if the UN Security Council authorizes it. The Security Council system was created in order to discourage a rogue nation from using violence as a means of achieving its own interests, without regard for the rest of the international community. Makes sense?

So let's examine the first one - was the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq a legitimate act of self-defense?

After the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, President George W. Bush and senior members of his administration repeatedly told the American public that attacking Iraq was the right thing to do for various reasons, the two most important ones being:

Number One: Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein had close ties with Osama bin Laden and was actively funding and sheltering Al-qaeda terrorists. True? No. A careful review and analysis by the bipartisan 9/11 Commission concluded that this allegation was in fact false.

Number Two: The Bush Administration claimed that Saddam Hussein had 'weapons of mass destruction' at his disposal - chemical, biological, and possibly even nuclear weapons - and that he was ready to use them. Was this true or false? Well, this also turned out to be false - it is now widely accepted that this claim was completely untrue.

Okay, but what about before the invasion started? Isn't it possible that President Bush and his most trusted advisers really did believe that Iraq posed an imminent threat to the U.S. at the time?

Well, it's possible... but... 'probably not'. Documents such as the infamous Downing Street Memo, for example, provide a glimpse unto how and why the Bush administration was quite willing to systematically distort or misrepresent intelligence information in order to have them conform to their desires. Of course the primary goal was to increase public support for the invasion they wanted. Other documents show that the U.S. government had planned to overthrow Saddam Hussein's government even before the attacks on 9/11, in order to gain access and control to Iraq's vast oil fields - the second or third largest in the world, greater than all the oil in the U.S., the North Sea, China, the Caspian Sea, and West Africa all combined. Military and political analysts also note that overthrowing Iraq's government was something the Bush Administration wanted so that they could extend the range of permanent U.S. military bases in the Middle East - something the State Department has coveted for at least 50 years. So to summarize, it appears highly unlikely that decision-makers at the highest levels of the White House seriously thought of Iraq a real threat to national security.

Any way you look at it, the U.S.-led war in Iraq cannot be justified as a matter of self-defense. There is nothing in the Charter of the UN that says a nation may attack another 'preemtively'. In other words, you can't legally start a war in order to prevent one you think might happen.
By sploop!
#1600449
Now, Article 6 of the U.S. Constitution says that any treaties signed by the United States becomes part of the supreme law of the land.


andres - does this not go to the heart of the argument you mentioned?
User avatar
By Andres
#1600484
sploop! wrote:andres - does this not go to the heart of the argument you mentioned?
This topic has come up before. The last I remember can be found here. Please read it fully.
User avatar
By Adam_Smith
#1600505
Quote:
Now, Article 6 of the U.S. Constitution says that any treaties signed by the United States becomes part of the supreme law of the land.


andres - does this not go to the heart of the argument you mentioned?
I have not investigated details of this particular case but it may be a factor that treaties do not become supreme law of the land until ratified. It is customary upon signing to comply with treaty terms so far as existing law permits pending ratification, but the Constitution does not require this.
User avatar
By Andres
#1600518
Adam_Smith wrote:I have not investigated details of this particular case but it may be a factor that treaties do not become supreme law of the land until ratified.
The problem is not the ratification. The convention was approved by the Senate on September 14, 1965, and it entered into force for the US on December 24, 1969.
By sploop!
#1600532
Mad as a box of Badgers...

Basically, someone forgot to say the magic word 'binding', so it doesn't count...?
User avatar
By Andres
#1600545
Basically, someone forgot to say the magic word 'binding', so it doesn't count...?
Not precisely. What is not binding is not the Vienna Convention, but rather the rulings by the ICJ. In effect I see it as, and this sounds a lot less absurd than just the lack of the word binding in the treaty, each ruling counting as a new 'treaty'. There then needs to be legislature accepting that each ruling of the ICJ (on the appropriate theme) will be binding, something that will not happen.

There is something ironic though, remember that there were some conservatives like Bill Oreilly which cry that 'activist' judges take rulings from other countries as precedence? Well Roberts in that ruling points to the fact that there is no country which subservience (sp?) its judicial system to the ICJ. Basically they are doing what every other country does.
User avatar
By amanamuse
#1600558
Qatz wrote:As an ostensibly Christian nation, America...

That's the worst indictment of the US I've seen so far. I'd rather the US break every treaty it's ever signed than for that to be true. "Christian" has been used for infinitely worse things than breaking treaties. "Christian" has no place in the US government.
User avatar
By Todd D.
#1600574
What's interesting is that the Bush administration was arguing on Medellin's behalf, and the US Supreme Court rejected their arguments as a State's Rights issue.
By John08
#1600579
Oh, just in case anyone is interested, here's a quick list of those broken treaties, including the Vienna Treaty...


You think that's a complete list? Hundreds of Native American tribes, thousands of treaties dealing with them. Basicly all were brocken.

This really doesn't surprise me.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#1600701
"Christian" has no place in the US government.

Really, amanamuse? And what should replace it? Self-interest and pure materialism?

Because that's all that's really out there besides Abrahamic texts and Zen sand gardens.
By John08
#1600770
Zen sand gardens


If I had my choice between the Pope and the Dali Lama being President, I'd vote for the Dali Lama. No Dali Lama (that I'm aware of) has order a war. For that matter, I cann't think of too many times when Buddhists committed genocide, or used there religion to justify war.

A Buddhist Theocracy is far safer then anytime Chirstianity sticks it's nose in governmental issues.

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