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#1649167
I'm sick and tired of liberal scum being associated with us. I propose that we cut alignment with them and become neutral on the issues that we usually stand on together with them, as well as distance ourselves from their populist image. Maybe even align with conservatives as far as pretending to be stupid goes.

Discuss.
By Michaeluj
#1649176
Liberals are so stupid. :p

Sorry. Couldn't resist.
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By foilist13
#1649178
I agree that Communists are not Liberals. There are many distinct differences and Communists and Liberals do not agree on many issues. I also think that Liberals are foolish and Communists are not.
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By Kiroff
#1649186
Exactly. See, we're the real mavericks. We bring real reform unlike those elitist fatcats in Washington DC who want to destroy our country and values with their liberal media and ideas about taking our money and giving it to poor people with their 'transfer programs' and 'taxes.'
By Khalq
#1649307
Kiroff wrote:I'm sick and tired of liberal scum being associated with us.

That's news. Since when?

Kiroff wrote:I propose that we cut alignment with them

Since when were communists aligned with liberals on any topic in the first place?

Kiroff wrote:become neutral on the issues that we usually stand on together with them

Issues like ...?

Kiroff wrote:as well as distance ourselves from their populist image

Populism (i.e. talk a lot and do nothing) is for revisionists and demagogue proponents of the System. Communists are not populists, have never been and will never be.

Kiroff wrote:Maybe even align with conservatives

Why not fascists while you're at it?
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By Kiroff
#1649494
That's news. Since when?


You must've missed the memo. Somewhere around the 1960's.

Issues like ...?


Social liberalism, idealism, trying to correct wrongs with stupid solutions, "white guilt." I don't know if you've turned on the commercial news anytime in the last few years, but whenever liberals try to do one of the above, it's called socialism.

Why not fascists while you're at it?


The ultimate divide in American and Canadian politics is between city and country. Communists' goal is to unite the two. Therefore, we will need support from both parties(city and country that is), and not be associated with "pinko liberal faggots" by one of the parties and "bloodthirsty murderers" by the other. The conservatives are for the advancement of the countryside, in part by trying to degrade the cities to recentralize on the countryside, as futile as that is, because even if they succeed, there will just be new cities, and the liberals are for a further grip of the cities on the countryside. That's why we, as communists must not associate with one rather than the other.
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By Kasu
#1649636
There's certain issues I agree with liberals on, but they might not be liberals or not, just people who believe in certain points.

First of all, I agree that we need to turn to alternative fuels and energy sources, as oil won't last forever.

I believe in conservation, the environment and wildlife should be protected. Also, Global Warming is a real threat and needs to be dealt with.

I believe that animal cruelty should also be taken care of..


Equality, you know, no racism, sexism, nationalism, etc

I'm against the death penalty, against wars, against imperialism. Also, I agree with most social permissive ideals, as the people should be able to do what ever they want in their own homes, as long its not hurting someone else.

Pro-choice, not against drugs, pro gay marriage, etc. Why shouldn't I support things like these?

I don't really think communists should disassociate themselves from these ideals, they should be universal moral principles, no one ideology should have a monopoly on them. But, the most immediate issue should be putting the means of production in the hands of the proletariat.
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By FallenRaptor
#1649668
We should support any other movement insofar as changing the current social conditions to benefit the working class, but we also should remain separate from those movements and not compromise on our own ideals. In America, we should support liberals in certain issues but keep out of the overall partisan nonsense and focus on the main antagonism in society, capitalists vs. wage-laborers. There's no need for us to bicker with conservatives over issues like abortion or gay marriage.
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By Kiroff
#1649698
Equality, you know, no racism, sexism, nationalism, etc


So you don't believe that those things are forced on us by the conditions we are in?

I don't really think communists should disassociate themselves from these ideals, they should be universal moral principles, no one ideology should have a monopoly on them. But, the most immediate issue should be putting the means of production in the hands of the proletariat.


And who determines these 'morals' and ideals?

We should support any other movement insofar as changing the current social conditions to benefit the working class, but we also should remain separate from those movements and not compromise on our own ideals. In America, we should support liberals in certain issues but keep out of the overall partisan nonsense and focus on the main antagonism in society, capitalists vs. wage-laborers. There's no need for us to bicker with conservatives over issues like abortion or gay marriage.


So because the changes fascists would bring upon us would slightly improve the well-being of the working class, we should support them? See, I could understand supporting social democrats, but that would require dismantling the 2-party system for good.
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By FallenRaptor
#1649758
So because the changes fascists would bring upon us would slightly improve the well-being of the working class, we should support them?

Uh no. :eh: We should support policies that benefit the working class and oppose those policies that go against the well-being of the working class, but we shouldn't just fully support any group and make ideological compromises, and we sure as hell should not support fascists.
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By Noelnada
#1649759
My heart bleed for American communists. :lol:
By Khalq
#1649801
Kiroff wrote:You must've missed the memo. Somewhere around the 1960's.

Must be a North American thing. Everywhere else the difference between liberal and communist is quite clear, as far as I know.

Kiroff wrote:trying to correct wrongs with stupid solutions

Communists don't try to Band-Aid a rotten system (a stupid solution). They act to overthrow the system (a much better and radical solution).

Kiroff wrote:Social liberalism

Welfare state, if that's what you mean, is nothing but a liberal tool for preventing or at least delaying the revolution. Once people are aware of that, they'll realize communism is contradictory to liberalism.

Kiroff wrote:idealism

All people form ANY political sides are idealists as they all have ideals they fight for or at least believe in. That's moral idealism.
The Marxist philosophy is dialectical materialism (i.e. the opposite of philosophical idealism).

Kiroff wrote:"white guilt."

This is a problem with communists who ignore the Marxist method of analysis. Communists are both anti-imperialists AND internationalists. They should not be ashamed of what their capitalist governments have done or are doing and more importantly, they should know who's the CLASS ally and who's the CLASS enemy, both at home and in the rest of the world.

Kiroff wrote:I don't know if you've turned on the commercial news anytime in the last few years, but whenever liberals try to do one of the above, it's called socialism.

Maybe if Communist Parties clarified their stance and cared to oppose and denounce liberal policies and ideology coming from both the government and from libertarian think tanks, the situation wouldn't be so f***ed up. For the communist struggle to be successful, it must be done on three fronts at the same time: political, economical and philosophical/ideological. And what about the "News" and their usual crap? It's propaganda from A to Z and should be denounced, like the rest, pitylessly.

Kiroff wrote:The ultimate divide in American and Canadian politics is between city and country. Communists' goal is to unite the two.

And in the end, communism is internationalist. Workers all over the world have the same basic interests whether in the city or the country. Again, this artificial division should be fought against.

Kiroff wrote:Therefore, we will need support from both parties

As it has always been the case: urban proletarians and agricultural workers (precisely those who depend on land and machine owners).

Kiroff wrote:and not be associated with "pinko liberal faggots" by one of the parties and "bloodthirsty murderers" by the other.

Labels are irrelevant when people are class conscious and aware of what communism means. So again, it's the Communist Parties' responsibility to "enlighten".

Kiroff wrote:The conservatives are for the advancement of the countryside, in part by trying to degrade the cities to recentralize on the countryside, as futile as that is, because even if they succeed, there will just be new cities, and the liberals are for a further grip of the cities on the countryside. That's why we, as communists must not associate with one rather than the other.

I'm not sure I follow you anymore. In your first post, were you proposing an alignment of "images" for disinformation purposes or an actual political alliance? Why propose a communist alignment with conservatives, if you understand they've got all things upside down?
Also why do think conservatives and liberals are so different? Conservatives are just liberals who happen to be more religious than others and who use religion and traditions to justify the system even more. Conservative/liberal, conservative/labour, republican-neocon/democrat, fundamentalist zealot/reformist, ... their differences are ONLY in their policy's irrelevant details and NOT in their allegiance to the capitalist system.
The only forces communists must associate with are the progressive forces in society whoever they may be, not proponents of the system (i.e. reactionaries), which both "conservatives" and liberals/libertarians are.
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By Kiroff
#1649809
I'll answer the specifics later, but I must say, saying something is that way, doesn't make it so in the eyes of everyone else. And I meant aligned in the approach, not their shit ideology or any of that crap they actually believe in.
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By Kasu
#1649948
I can assure you the feeling is mutual.


I'm sure the liberals just HATE being called communists. "to think they'd consider me a communist, HA! I have the most pro-capitalist ideology in the world, what nonsense!"
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By Eauz
#1649955
It all originated when the Social Democrats in Germany used cut and paste of Marx's literature to produce policies that seemed communist and then added parts of the communist manifesto, ridiculing the whole goal of the literature.
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By pikachu
#1649957
Why not fascists while you're at it?
I would support them, if they had the intention of doing the same.
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By Kiroff
#1651063
So yeah, with the authority vested in me by the power of Communism, all ties with liberals have been severed. Anyone found to be cooperating with them will be severely punished.

Hmm, looks like first up is CP-USA. They're up on the Soviet-Empire Vengence Tour 2009 list.
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By Nets
#1651186
Kiroff, it's like you and the other commies are getting together and saying "Gee, how can we make ourselves even more irrelevant and marginal in society"?
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By Kiroff
#1651249
No, just having some good old-fashioned fun. :hippy:

Except without hippies.
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