[sploop!]

In reply to:
http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1649436#1649436

"The difference between the people of Israel and the nations of the world is an essential one. The Jew by his source and in his very essence is entirely good. The goy, by his source and in his very essence is completely evil. This is not simply a matter of religious distinction, but rather of two completely different species."

This is the central claim in Romemut Yisrael Ufarashat Hagalut [The Superiority of Israel], a 2003 book written by Rabbi Saadya Grama which uses classical Jewish sources in defense of a race-based theory of Jewish supremacy.

Among other things, Grama argues:

• The differences between Jews and gentiles are not religious, historical, cultural or political. They are, rather, racial, genetic and scientifically unalterable. The gentiles are at their very root and by natural constitution “totally evil” while the Jews are “totally good.”

• Jewish successes in the world are completely contingent upon the failure of all other peoples. Only when the gentiles face total catastrophe do the Jews experience good fortune.

• The Jews themselves brought about their own destruction during the Holocaust, since they arrogantly endeavored to overcome their very essence, dictated by divine law, by leaving their ghettoes and trying to assimilate into Christian European society. The confrontational approach of the Zionists, their boycott of German products and anti-Nazi demonstrations in particular, only exacerbated the peril to European Jewry.

Grama also argues that in opposition to Zionism’s advocacy of Jewish national self-assertion and self-defense, which he views as an imitation of "gentile ways," the Torah mandates that the Jews, while in exile, should employ such means as appeasement, deception, duplicity and even “bribery” in their dealing with gentiles, so as to avoid their wrath.

Gama’s doctrine is part of a stream of rabbinic tradition — from the 11th- and 12th-century Hebrew romantic poet Yehuda Halevy to the 18th century chasidic sage Levi Yitzhak of Berditchev — which sees the differences between Jew and gentile as innate, rather than merely religious. Perhaps the most extreme version of this view is found in the central text of Chabad chasidism, Tanya, whose author, Rabbi Shneur Zalman of Lyadi, Chabad’s founder, maintained that Jewish and gentile souls are fundamentally different, the former "divine" and the latter "animalistic." That viewpoint has gained ground in recent decades, particularly among ultra-orthodox Jewish thinkers.

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh, who is considered one of the leading ideologues of the Israeli Chabad movement, has written and spoken widely on the superiority of Jews and was briefly imprisoned in Israel for racial incitement. Yated Ne’eman, an Orthodox weekly in upstate New York that is affiliated with one of Israel’s main charedi dailies, has published essays on the question of whether medical research can be understood to apply to Jews given the innate physiological differences between Jews and gentiles.

Grama frequently quotes Biblical verses that advocate terribly harsh treatment of the pagan inhabitants of ancient Canaan, implying that the same standards ought to be applied to his non-Jewish neighbors in America.

The book’s blurb includes flowery endorsements from the most revered religious scholars at the renowned Lakewood yeshiva, [an academy of advanced Talmud studies] including the institution’s foremost religious leader, or rosh yeshiva, Rabbi Aryeh Malkiel Kotler.

Kotler enthused that Gamma had written "on the subjects of the Exile, the Election of Israel and her exaltation above and superiority to all of the other nations, all in accordance with the viewpoint of the Torah, based on the solid instruction he has received from his teachers."

LM Edit: Removed
More Acceptable Source

Quite clearly, the Jews are as prone to stupidity and arrogant racism as anyone else. I'm just amused at the thought of Dempsey, Oxymoron and Rodion throwing stones in a fucking greenhouse.

[Verv]

I am really not sure how accurate this is of Jews that I know... I've never really been with any Jews who view goyim with legitimate contempt.

I've even met quite conservative Jews who seem very open to... rocking out... And... Being nice.

[Nets]

Rodion? What has Rodion ever said to piss you off, Sploop!? Anyways, this must be bittersweet for you, he would have made a nice addition to your Anti-Zionist coalition if he weren't a racist quack.

It is funny though that you posted this in ME, where it doesn't belong.

Anyways, the second source you posted had the headline

Charedi Rabbis Rush To Disavow Anti-Gentile Book

Why do we never hear such condemnations from Muslim clerics when Muslim preachers call Jews and Christians the descendants of pigs and apes?

Quite clearly, the Jews are as prone to stupidity and arrogant racism as anyone else.

When the real line should be "Quite clearly, the Ultra-Orthodox Jews are as prone to stupidity and arrogant racism as any other fanatical religious sect.

This is pretty funny though, its a self-published book by some nobody author, but you use it to generalize across a whole group of people to suit your ideology, Sploop! Imagine if someone did the same thing by posting, say, Radio Islam and using it to point how susceptible Muslims (in general) are to racism. It is nonsense.

If your point is that there are retarded bigots everywhere, than that is fine. Any stronger point than this would need a better argument.

[sploop!]

^ You clearly didn't read the post that prompted this one...

[Nets]

What do you mean?

[Oxymoron]

The difference being that Sharia law is practiced by a huge majority of Islam where wife beating is fully acceptable, while Jewish extremists are treated as such and are a huge minority of our population.

[babilonian]

Sploop... try me with your stones.

I really find it hard to argue with you guys anymore. How could we have an argument when one side, washes everything aside when it comes to their errors and just hold on to the other ones mistakes or errors.

Your books call jews pig, apes. You expect stones/trees to yell at you to kill jews hiding behind them.

Should I quote you the sources or should it be clear enough for you what I'm trying to say?

You defend Islam by washing everything aside when it pleases you, even if what is said and written makes no sense and brings a bad picture of a good religion.
But would rather quote a fanatic jewish ideas that most jews don't practice or preach anymore. AT LEAST THEY DON'T PREACH IT IN THEIR SYNIGOGES. MUSLIMS ON THE OTHER HAND STILL PREACH HATE IN THEIR MOSQUES. NO IN THE WEST because THEY'RE LISTENING, BUT AT HOME.

I read you posts on the subject of resistance or zionisim. you had a very fierce argument and i was very impressed. You brought out very good points and had the upper hand in my openion.but you guys ruin it because you are consumed with hate and it blinds your judgment.

[babilonian]

Oxy... don't become an Arab.

Latest statistic shows that the majority of married men in Egypt are being abused by their wifes.

take it from me... if an arab beats his wife, she deserves it. They still act like women living in the stone ages and refuse to move forward. Still living in gosip land where they spend hours on the phone talking about who went where and did what. Or giving reports to their moms about every move her husband made. I know somethings women can't live without, as do men. But ... can't really describe it... try dating an Arab girl and you'll get a better idea. Or try something closer to you...like a cafcazy jewish girl...you can find them in NY

[Rodion]

I would like it stated for the record, that there are fairly limited hazards to throwing stones in a greenhouse. The structure is supported by a metal and/or wooden skeleton in all but anecdotal cases.

[sploop!]

Please read this thread:

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=96016

What is the purpose of this post? Is it news? Does it matter that it perpetuates a view of Islam that is, on the whole, laughably inaccurate?

I don't think I am blinded by hate, but I am really fed up with stoopid posts about Islam. I'm not even religious!

You wrote this:

But would rather quote a fanatic jewish ideas that most jews don't practice or preach anymore. AT LEAST THEY DON'T PREACH IT IN THEIR SYNIGOGES. MUSLIMS ON THE OTHER HAND STILL PREACH HATE IN THEIR MOSQUES. NO IN THE WEST because THEY'RE LISTENING, BUT AT HOME.

I am simply going through exactly the process the 'one eye cleric' post is about. I have picked out something stoopid, posted it and linked it, and I invite you to spot the difference between the two.

Some Muslims say stoopid shit. Some Jews say stoopid shit. It isn't news. I'm just objecting to the other thread, and thought it might be more interesting to be a bit provocative instead of just whinging. Honest!

[babilonian]

I believe you. That sounded very honest from you.

but let me say this. ever since i joined this forum, all i've been reading about is zionism this and jews that.

you read stuff about islam because its a side effect, a reaction to what is being always mentioned here. Just look how many threads are there about zionism and jews. Or even look at how many threads that turn into discussions about jews and zionists when it has nothing to do with it.

As for the false stuff about Islam. I agree with you on that 100%, but its Muslims who are spreading it and preaching it and have it in their books. I saw many times on TV, so called Muslim scholars mentioning that GOD turned the Jews into pigs and apes. You know what...I tried to prove that and went on a quran site and did a search and nothing came up when I tried to search Pig, Pigs, or apes. I really don't know what the hell they're talking about. As for the Hadith that says muslims will kill all jews including ones hiding behind rocks and trees. THAT IS IN BUKHARI AND MUSLIM. However its too bad that the majority of muslims don't believe in such bull shit and yet are unable to remove these stupid hateful things from their texts because of the few extremists that have hijacked Islam.

[MVictorP]

Why do we never hear such condemnations from Muslim clerics when Muslim preachers call Jews and Christians the descendants of pigs and apes?

Because that kind of deny would make for a less sensationalistic canard? Or because owners of the said canards are having a wee bit of a conflict of interests? In the papers that I read, there has been numerous denies by various Imams about Islamic extremists.

Anyway, I don't know much about Jews and pigs, but I do beleive that we, christians (imperfect Jews... ) are rumored to have a common ancestror with apes. I have no idea from which stock Muslims came from. Camels?

* * *

I suspect many, if not all orthodox Jews beleive this tripe to a certain degree, but are hypocrit about it. The disdain they show goyims in everyday life speak volumes about it.

[Nets]

I suspect many, if not all orthodox Jews beleive this tripe to a certain degree, but are hypocrit about it. The disdain they show goyims in everyday life speak volumes about it.

Stop being so paranoid. I guess the world is just full of big, Jewish meanies who don't like you, MVictorP. You see Jewish supremacists around every corner, it is ridiculous.

By the way, MVictorP, I'm still waiting for you to elaborate on the "greedy international jews" that caused WWII, and for you to substantiate your claims of Jewish domination of media, finance and government.

[MVictorP]

You see Jewish supremacists around every corner, it is ridiculous.

I see that, and for your part, you see antisemites and Jewish victims around every corner. I am your vital counterpart, so balance is served.

By the way, MVictorP, I'm still waiting for you to elaborate on the "greedy international jews" that caused WWII, and for you to substantiate your claims of Jewish domination of media, finance and government.

Since how long do you wait? I have never seen that challenge from you as far as I can remember. The memory I have about the times we argued was that you usually leave the discussion. Be re-assured, I aim to please.

My opinion of Jewish power responsible for the entry of the US in WWI and having backstabbed Germany soon after comes from Benjamin Freedman:

About US entry in WWI:

Within two years Germany had won that war: not alone won it nominally, but won it actually. The German submarines, which were a surprise to the world, had swept all the convoys from the Atlantic Ocean, and Great Britain stood there without ammunition for her soldiers, stood there with one week's food supply facing her -- and after that, starvation.

At that time, the French army had mutinied. They lost 600,000 of the flower of French youth in the defense of Verdun on the Somme. The Russian army was defecting. They were picking up their toys and going home, they didn't want to play war anymore, they didn't like the Czar. And the Italian army had collapsed.

Now Germany -- not a shot had been fired on the German soil. Not an enemy soldier had crossed the border into Germany. And yet, here was Germany offering England peace terms. They offered England a negotiated peace on what the lawyers call a status quo ante basis. That means: “Let's call the war off, and let everything be as it was before the war started.”

Well, England, in the summer of 1916 was considering that. Seriously! They had no choice. It was either accepting this negotiated peace that Germany was magnanimously offering them, or going on with the war and being totally defeated.

While that was going on, the Zionists in Germany, who represented the Zionists from Eastern Europe, went to the British War Cabinet and -- I am going to be brief because this is a long story, but I have all the documents to prove any statement that I make if anyone here is curious, or doesn't believe what I'm saying is at all possible -- the Zionists in London went to the British war cabinet and they said: “Look here. You can yet win this war. You don't have to give up. You don't have to accept the negotiated peace offered to you now by Germany. You can win this war if the United States will come in as your ally.”

The United States was not in the war at that time. We were fresh; we were young; we were rich; we were powerful. They [Zionists] told England: “We will guarantee to bring the United States into the war as your ally, to fight with you on your side, if you will promise us Palestine after you win the war.”

In other words, they made this deal: “We will get the United States into this war as your ally. The price you must pay us is Palestine after you have won the war and defeated Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey.”

Now England had as much right to promise Palestine to anybody, as the United States would have to promise Japan to Ireland for any reason whatsoever. It's absolutely absurd that Great Britain -- that never had any connection or any interest or any right in what is known as Palestine -- should offer it as coin of the realm to pay the Zionists for bringing the United States into the war.

However, they made that promise, in October of 1916. October, nineteen hundred and sixteen. And shortly after that -- I don't know how many here remember it -- the United States, which was almost totally pro-German -- totally pro-German -- because the newspapers here were controlled by Jews, the bankers were Jews, all the media of mass communications in this country were controlled by Jews, and they were pro-German because their people, in the majority of cases came from Germany, and they wanted to see Germany lick the Czar.

The Jews didn't like the Czar, and they didn't want Russia to win this war. So the German bankers -- the German-Jews -- Kuhn Loeb and the other big banking firms in the United States refused to finance France or England to the extent of one dollar. They stood aside and they said: “As long as France and England are tied up with Russia, not one cent!” But they poured money into Germany, they fought with Germany against Russia, trying to lick the Czarist regime.

Now those same Jews, when they saw the possibility of getting Palestine, they went to England and they made this deal. At that time, everything changed, like the traffic light that changes from red to green. Where the newspapers had been all pro-German, where they'd been telling the people of the difficulties that Germany was having fighting Great Britain commercially and in other respects, all of a sudden the Germans were no good. They were villains. They were Huns. They were shooting Red Cross nurses. They were cutting off babies' hands. And they were no good.

Well, shortly after that, Mr. Wilson declared war on Germany.

About backstabbing Germany at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919:

Now, that is where all the trouble started. The United States went in the war. The United States crushed Germany. We went in there, and it's history. You know what happened. Now, when the war was ended, and the Germans went to Paris, to the Paris Peace Conference in 1919, there were 117 Jews there, as a delegation representing the Jews, headed by Bernard Baruch. I was there: I ought to know. Now what happened?

The Jews at that peace conference, when they were cutting up Germany and parceling out Europe to all these nations that claimed a right to a certain part of European territory, the Jews said, “How about Palestine for us?” And they produced, for the first time to the knowledge of the Germans, this Balfour Declaration. So the Germans, for the first time realized, “Oh, that was the game! That's why the United States came into the war.” And the Germans for the first time realized that they were defeated, they suffered this terrific reparation that was slapped onto them, because the Zionists wanted Palestine and they were determined to get it at any cost.

Now, that brings us to another very interesting point. When the Germans realized this, they naturally resented it. Up to that time, the Jews had never been better off in any country in the world than they had been in Germany.

You had Mr. Rathenau there, who was maybe 100 times as important in industry and finance as is Bernard Baruch in this country. You had Mr. Balin, who owned the two big steamship lines, the North German Lloyd's and the Hamburg-American Lines. You had Mr. Bleichroder, who was the banker for the Hohenzollern family. You had the Warburgs in Hamburg, who were the big merchant bankers -- the biggest in the world. The Jews were doing very well in Germany. No question about that. Now, the Germans felt: “Well, that was quite a sellout.”

(Source)

And here is an image of the March 24, 1933 front page of the British Daily Express (more than five years before Kristalnacht), not saying that Jews caused WWII, natch, but adding an often missing piece of the puzzle as to why were Jews persecuted in Germany, apart from irrational mass hysteria and Nazi voodoo magic rituals.

As for proof that Jews are on top of media and finance, and political lobbying, I will simply say this, again, Nets: It's all false. There are no Jew power whatsoever in these domains. Those who claim otherwise are, undoubtely, antisemites. You guys are piss-poor both in terms of money and influence. And martyrs.

You are right.

[Grunch]

Stop being so paranoid.

I am under the impression that Orthodox Jews don't marry outside of their very small sect for reasons of "purity". This is more or less how marriage is spoken about in Unattached.

[Lightman]

And here is an image of the March 24, 1933 front page of the British Daily Express (more than five years before Kristalnacht), not saying that Jews caused WWII, natch, but adding an often missing piece of the puzzle as to why were Jews persecuted in Germany, apart from irrational mass hysteria and Nazi voodoo magic rituals.

As for proof that Jews are on top of media and finance, and political lobbying, I will simply say this, again, Nets: It's all false. There are no Jew power whatsoever in these domains. Those who claim otherwise are, undoubtely, antisemites. You guys are piss-poor both in terms of money and influence. And martyrs.

I suppose it is quite unreasonable to boycott goods from a country whose government has explicitly stated in its ideological manifesto that a group you are a member of is inferior and that ""the sacrifice of millions of soldiers would not have been in vain" if several thousand of your group were gassed ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_kampf ). Similarly, I suppose boycotting South Africa was quite an unreasonable action. As is your boycott of Israeli goods.

[babilonian]

In the papers that I read, there has been numerous denies by various Imams about Islamic extremists.

And what are those papers that you read. I would like to get my hands on them and see what they write about exactly.

[Muck]

Interesting to see that you've taken to posting from sites with swastikas on their front page sploop.

[Maas]

I am under the impression that Orthodox Jews don't marry outside of their very small sect for reasons of "purity". This is more or less how marriage is spoken about in Unattached.

I even think it's a thing hard to dispute.
Seems to me that these must be parental aproved marriages.

And that's a small step away from pre-arranged and forced marriages.

[babilonian]

And here is an image of the March 24, 1933 front page of the British Daily Express (more than five years before Kristalnacht), not saying that Jews caused WWII, natch, but adding an often missing piece of the puzzle as to why were Jews persecuted in Germany, apart from irrational mass hysteria and Nazi voodoo magic rituals.

Should I have a good idea now of the news papers that you read?

How exactly is it a crime to boycott products of a certain country that those people see as a threat to them??

Doesn't Muslims boycott Israeli products as well as American products that are Jewish?? Did you know that? Many muslims boycott american jewish companies.