[Rancid]

[rule 2 violation deleted - Prosthetic Conscience]

[Rancid]

The public shaming of petty criminals is just part of that.

I'm going to start barking (like a dog...literally) at everyone that fucks up at work.

[Finfinder]

If this were a prison, you would be the first bitch here I'd fuck in the ass.

you know, to show you my sensitive and caring side.

You are gay but that's ok that might explain it. How does that make you better than everyone else on POFO, just curious, and can please elaborate on your judgments of people in particular anonymous screen characters on an obscure politics forum. Is that like an award badge or something?

[Tainari88]

Indeed, and the flipside of that freedom and opportunity is the looseness of central control and a certain rough-and-ready attitude towards personal safety and law and order, which is sometimes indistinguishable from vigilante 'justice'. The public shaming of petty criminals is just part of that.

Public shaming practices only work if the person has a bit of shame to begin with. Trump types don't care. They can be shamed and confronted, but since they are bald faced shameless types? Only some kind of confiscation of all money and property is a big blow to them. Poverty and not being able to do a damn thing is what they deserve.

[Pants-of-dog]

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2018/09 ... to-be.html

We're expanding our right-to-be-forgotten experiment: Chris Quinn

Updated Jan 29, 2019;Posted Sep 12, 2018

By Chris Quinn, Editor, cleveland.com

We launched our right-to-be-forgotten experiment two months ago and began fielding requests from people to remove their identities from cleveland.com stories about minor crimes they committed.

So far, we've taken five names out of stories.

One was someone who had been in the health field and stole some drugs from her employer. A judge eventually declared that she not only had completed her sentence but had completely rehabilitated herself. He sealed records of her crime so she could move on with her life, meaning you could not find the records today.

She lost her license to work in her healthcare field, but as she sought to begin a new career, any Google search of her name brought up our stories about her crime, along with her mug shot.

Another was a man who stole some scrap metal years ago, completed his sentence and had his record sealed. Yet our story dogged him.

Our thinking, as I explained in July, is that people should not have to pay for a mistake for the rest of their lives. Because cleveland.com is so big, our content appears high in search engines, meaning that if we published a story about a minor crime you committed, our story often would be the first thing to appear in searches of your name.

In the old days, a story about a minor crime would appear on a newspaper page and quickly begin to fade from memory. It did not haunt you for the rest of time.

Our policy these last two months has been that we would remove names from stories if the records of the crimes had been sealed by a judge and did not involve violence, sex crimes or public corruption.

We have, however, heard from people whose embarrassing stories were not based in the courts. Or they were people who were peripheral to a crime story and never charged. No record existed for a judge to seal. Shouldn't they, too, have the opportunity to have their names removed?

So, we're expanding our experiment. We're taking an idea from our colleagues at our sister site, nj.com, and forming a newsroom committee to consider requests for removing names from stories where search engines can find them. Once a month or so, we will put the requests on the table for discussion.

Why a committee? We are introducing some subjectivity into this, and we want to form a consensus with multiple viewpoints. Originally, this was was simple. Persuade a judge to seal your records, and unless you were involved in violence or corruption, we'd remove your name. With this expansion, we'll have to consider many other factors.

Fairness will be the principle that guides us. We will try to answer the question, case by case, as to whether the harm being done to the people who seek our help outweighs the value to the community of the information remaining public. The amount of time that has passed since the story appeared will be a factor. As will the notoriety. In New Jersey, fewer than half the requests are granted.

The agenda for our first meeting already has multiple requests on it. The way to get on the agenda is to send a note to [email protected], with a link to the pieces in question and your reasons for wanting your name removed. Please provide as much information as you can to help guide us.

This is all new ground for us. Nothing requires that we do this. A good many people argue that we should not do this. And we, of course, have sole authority to make the decisions.

We do not, however, want to be a vehicle for the needless suffering of people who long ago made a mistake, paid for it and tried to move ahead.

We'll see how this new process goes and get back to you on our progress.

[Rancid]

right-to-be-forgotten

This is such an important thing. It goes beyond people that have committed petty crime as well.

[BigSteve]

I don’t think you even find that mug shot funny Big Steve.

Oh, but I do, but only because I learned the back story. At first, I echoed something someone else said about a $100,000 payday, believing that the police did it. But that's not what happened. This guy got worked because he was not only stupid enough to break into someone's shop, but was also stupid enough to take a swing at the guy...

There is a valid discussion surrounding the morality of that mugshot. It’s a shame the Sherrif in that American county can’t see that. They should be having this discussion...

How is it immoral to show that photo?

[Tainari88]

This is such an important thing. It goes beyond people that have committed petty crime as well.

Rancid jails have been privatized. People got to pay $150 dollars a month to some privately owned probation office for a year for throwing a shoe at your husband who had an affair with the receptionist at your beauty salon.

The state makes money, so do the private probation company and the profit off of crime goes on....no one forgets.

It is terrible. But that is what capitalism has led to. A privatized prison system, a privatized probation system, a privatized everything.

$$$$$$ Girl comes in and for underage drinking she is found guilty and sentenced to pay for 24 months $500 dollars and make the private pee in a cup companies rich. That is the way it is.

[Pants-of-dog]

How is it immoral to show that photo?

People literally make money by showing the photo, and the reason they do is people want to laugh at this person’s misery.

It also blurs the distinction between a person arrested, a person charged with a crime, and a person convicted of a crime. It basically finds them guilty in the court of public opinion before they are found guilty in a court of law.

Companies then archive these photos for display on the internet and then charge people money to have them removed, even if the person was never charged with a crime.

Police can unlawfully use these to harass or shame people for personal reasons.

It can be a significant invasion of privacy for the rest of the person’s life.

[Finfinder]

Public shaming practices only work if the person has a bit of shame to begin with. Trump types don't care. They can be shamed and confronted, but since they are bald faced shameless types? Only some kind of confiscation of all money and property is a big blow to them. Poverty and not being able to do a damn thing is what they deserve.

Interesting,.... is the point, virtue comes with a voter registration card reading Democrat? With at least 2 fake investigations , a shit show Supreme Court and other nomination processes, lead by the liberal gaslight media, they must not have read the registration form.

[Tainari88]

Interesting,.... is the point, virtue comes with a voter registration card reading Democrat? With at least 2 fake investigations , a shit show Supreme Court and other nomination processes, lead by the liberal gaslight media, they must not have read the registration form.

No, Fin, I think they don't have a moral leg to stand on either. Both parties stink badly. Thus the need people have to get rid of both sides.

People clinging to some kind of hope that they can get past the corruption. You can't--too many years of letting them take control. That crap needs to be nipped in the bud from the beginning. But, people grow complacent and let things slide for decades. They don't really take politics seriously. They should. It affects most people's lives for the good or for the bad. You don't pay attention the power vacuum is filled for you.

But? Thems the breaks.

You might think the Republicans are going to survive and thrive. They won't. Obama was elected for two terms because there are a lot of superificial bubblehead liberals who think a Black man is enough to mollify people with real concerns about the system. They believe in superficial forms of political correctness that no one believes anymore.

You believe in the system Fin. I never did.

Different life experiences hombre. Most individual's politics is about their own formation and social and economic backgrounds. It is true that few commit class suicide. Most people are just products of those who raise them.

[Finfinder]

No, Fin, I think they don't have a moral leg to stand on either. Both parties stink badly. Thus the need people have to get rid of both sides.

People clinging to some kind of hope that they can get past the corruption. You can't--too many years of letting them take control. That crap needs to be nipped in the bud from the beginning. But, people grow complacent and let things slide for decades. They don't really take politics seriously. They should. It affects most people's lives for the good or for the bad. You don't pay attention the power vacuum is filled for you.

But? Thems the breaks.

You might think the Republicans are going to survive and thrive. They won't. Obama was elected for two terms because there are a lot of superificial bubblehead liberals who think a Black man is enough to mollify people with real concerns about the system. They believe in superficial forms of political correctness that no one believes anymore.

You believe in the system Fin. I never did.

Different life experiences hombre. Most individual's politics is about their own formation and social and economic backgrounds. It is true that few commit class suicide. Most people are just products of those who raise them.

Actually I can't find anything in your post I disagree with. Im registered Independent I would describe myself of more of a constitutionalists and moderate. I have been saying for a long time after 16 years of milk toast Bush and Obama I'm done with Republicans. I'm done with politicians going in poor and coming out rich. Honestly I want something that is fair and not rigged if a Dem wins fine I just want it to be fair and square.

You'd probably be surprised that I'm not a giant fan of Trumps personality although after 8 years of Obama and the Republicans doing nothing about being turned into door mats over things like the IRS scandal, bengahzi, fast and furious, the Clinton Foundation and so much more. I think Trump is the perfect personality and refreshing for those of us who are sick and tired of do nothing congress enriching themselves . Trump says in open what others say behind closed doors he just has political courage not seen in a long time. I think unelected partisan bureaucrats are finally getting the criticism they deserve and that part of the swamp needs to be drained. In the end I can easily justify my vote by the judges that are being appointed that is all I can have faith in.

[Rich]

This sort of thing probably ultimately derives from the 'frontier justice' of the American West in the 19th century. It wasn't unusual for miscreants to be tarred and feathered or ridden out of town on a rail, with little or no 'due process'. American society was a bit rough around the edges back then, and to some extent it still is. Civilisation never really arrived to some areas of the US....

I don't follow what's uncivilised about this. American justice seems pretty soft compared to most civilisations over the last six thousand years. In particular I believe some historians argue that the justice system under Stalin had some rough edges. Mao certainly wasn't averse to a bit of shaming and even Pol Pot's justice system had an authoritarian undertone.

[Potemkin]

I don't follow what's uncivilised about this. American justice seems pretty soft compared to most civilisations over the last six thousand years. In particular I believe some historians argue that the justice system under Stalin had some rough edges. Mao certainly wasn't averse to a bit of shaming and even Pol Pot's justice system had an authoritarian undertone.

Indeed, but what all these societies had in common was a shared economic and cultural backwardness, and the fact that all of these societies were predominately rural in nature. I would propose that it was these primitive characteristics in Russia, China, Cambodia et al., which I characterised as an absence of 'civilisation', which led to their rather rough-and-ready approach to 'justice'.

[Ter]

People literally make money by showing the photo, and the reason they do is people want to laugh at this person’s misery.

It also blurs the distinction between a person arrested, a person charged with a crime, and a person convicted of a crime. It basically finds them guilty in the court of public opinion before they are found guilty in a court of law.

Companies then archive these photos for display on the internet and then charge people money to have them removed, even if the person was never charged with a crime.

Police can unlawfully use these to harass or shame people for personal reasons.

It can be a significant invasion of privacy for the rest of the person’s life.

Please make a note in pofo's archives that Ter agrees with POD, a remarkable event.

[BigSteve]

People literally make money by showing the photo, and the reason they do is people want to laugh at this person’s misery.

How does the county make money off the fact that I laugh at these idiots?

It also blurs the distinction between a person arrested, a person charged with a crime, and a person convicted of a crime. It basically finds them guilty in the court of public opinion before they are found guilty in a court of law.

No, it doesn't.

The only people who do that are those too stupid to understand that this is merely showing the public who's been arrested. Nothing more, nothing less...

Companies then archive these photos for display on the internet and then charge people money to have them removed, even if the person was never charged with a crime.

Please enlighten us on which companies do that. In the case of my county, the photos are removed by the Sheriff's office once the individual gets bailed out or is arraigned...

Police can unlawfully use these to harass or shame people for personal reasons.

How?

These idiots already have their faces strewn across the internet. What are the police going to do in addition to that? Furthermore, how would the police use them for "personal reasons"?

It can be a significant invasion of privacy for the rest of the person’s life.

Well, the courts here disagree with you. This is perfectly legal and Constitutional. Having a photo posted on the internet, as a result of being arrested, is hardly an invasion of privacy...

[ness31]

How is it immoral to show that photo?

*shrug* it just lacks basic human decency in my opinion and doesn’t serve any purpose. But each to their own I suppose

[Rich]

Indeed, but what all these societies had in common was a shared economic and cultural backwardness, and the fact that all of these societies were predominately rural in nature. I would propose that it was these primitive characteristics in Russia, China, Cambodia et al., which I characterised as an absence of 'civilisation', which led to their rather rough-and-ready approach to 'justice'.

So that's most interesting. What's notable about Sumer, often thought of the as the first civilisation is the incredibly high levels of urbanisation, maybe 80 or 90%. Why did everyone live in the cities? For protection. The problem with Sumer is that it was small government. Small city states that could only protect its citizens from raiders by housing them and the grain accumulation inside the city walls. It was only the big government empires that succeeded Sumer that were able to offer sufficient protection to allow a rural agrarian society.

I think I now understand the incredible vision of the American founders. I think right from the beginning they wanted to create the biggest government the world had ever seen. They were deeply unhappy with the lack of militarist aggression and expansionism of the British monarchy and government. The British were rabid peace mongers, a bit like the Israelis after 1967, or Bismark, constantly giving back the territories they captured from the French and other European territories. They also made ridiculously generous peace treaties with the (American) Indians. And even more stupidly seemed interested in honouring them, even when they had served their usefulness.

The founders balanced their desire for big government with the protection of the Slave owning elite. Again the 1808 transatlantic slave trade guarantee was a clever balancing of the business needs of the deep south with its voracious need to import labour, a bit like the British NHS and the less profitable, but less deadly near South that wanted to farm slaves for export to the Deep South as a product.

[BigSteve]

*shrug* it just lacks basic human decency in my opinion and doesn’t serve any purpose. But each to their own I suppose

Bear in mind that we're not talking about some upstanding citizen. We're talking about someone who got drunk, broke into a business which was closed, and then attacked the owner of that business after the owner called the police.

Why do you think such a piece of shit deserves to be shown any decency?

[Tainari88]

Actually I can't find anything in your post I disagree with. Im registered Independent I would describe myself of more of a constitutionalists and moderate. I have been saying for a long time after 16 years of milk toast Bush and Obama I'm done with Republicans. I'm done with politicians going in poor and coming out rich. Honestly I want something that is fair and not rigged if a Dem wins fine I just want it to be fair and square.

You'd probably be surprised that I'm not a giant fan of Trumps personality although after 8 years of Obama and the Republicans doing nothing about being turned into door mats over things like the IRS scandal, bengahzi, fast and furious, the Clinton Foundation and so much more. I think Trump is the perfect personality and refreshing for those of us who are sick and tired of do nothing congress enriching themselves . Trump says in open what others say behind closed doors he just has political courage not seen in a long time. I think unelected partisan bureaucrats are finally getting the criticism they deserve and that part of the swamp needs to be drained. In the end I can easily justify my vote by the judges that are being appointed that is all I can have faith in.

I think there are a lot of folks who feel about the entire system like you do Fin.

But allowing a bunch of thieving and lying politicians enter a system poor and come out rich is what capitalist morals are about Fin. I don't like the Supreme Court Justices appointed. Most of them will give all the power to corporations and won't hold the bankers responsible and won't liberate the unincorporated territories bad statutes and codes. No, the system is almost without redemption at this point. It will limp along but I think the takeover from China is going to be almost guaranteed down the road.

I am concerned about the PRC, it has a very deep underbelly of corruption and human rights violations. But the PRC also is highly pragmatic and also flexible when it comes to political and economic survival. It is highly intelligent in how it is coping with Latin American markets Fin. So? It is going to be interesting seeing how the Chinese citizens themselves start pushing the system and forcing rights out of the ones with iron fists eh?

If any nation can find some philosophies for balance eventually and hopefully it will be China. Just out of sheer AGE and length of human history.

But? The track record for coping with workers is awful. They need to change their attitudes and start giving workers a lot of power.

Otherwise they will be going down the tubes as well.