Police shoot at police for holding gun - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15256641
When police shoot at police because they are holding guns.

Off-Duty Vermont Deputy Shot by Cops in New York After Refusing To Drop Gun
On November 20, 2022, around 3:00 a.m. an off-duty deputy from the Rutland County Sheriff's Office was attacked by a group of about three people at the intersection of Caroline Street and Broadway in Saratoga Springs. After the deputy displayed a gun, one of the men in the group fired, with the deputy firing back. Police say seven to eight shots were in the exchange.

Saratoga Springs police officers patrolling in the nightlife district heard shots fired on Broadway, about a block away from their location. The Vermont deputy did not comply when asked to drop the weapon several times. When the sheriff's deputy, who was not in uniform, did not drop his weapon, Saratoga Springs officers opened fire. The deputy, who was not immediately identified, suffered 10 bullet wounds, including one to the chest, but was conscious and was expected to survive. The deputy's girlfriend was grazed by the gunfire and is also in stable condition at this time.

The deputy had gotten into a barroom argument with a group of three people from Utica. After the fight spilled onto the street, the deputy showed his weapon and the Utica man drew his, which was when gunfire broke out. Seven to eight shots were fired between the two, and the deputy shot the Utica man. All three gunshot victims were in stable condition at a hospital. Authorities didn't identify them. The Saratoga Springs officers who fired weapons have been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of an investigation "to find out if any policies or protocols were violated," Saratoga Springs Police Sgt. Paul Veitch said. That investigation is set to be conducted by the Saratoga Springs Police Department, he said.​

YouTube video here: Off-Duty Vermont Deputy Shot by Cops in New York After Refusing To Drop Gun - YouTube

Off-duty Vt. sheriff’s deputy shot by police in NY after gunfight (wcax.com)
https://www.wcax.com/2022/11/21/vt-sher ... -shooting/


It is common and normal for police to shoot at people who are holding a gun and will not drop it, despite being told to do so. Law enforcement officers are not questioned for this, and it is usually considered appropriate and legal.

That kind of raises the question of what is "fair" and morally right, not to mention theoretical legal questions of who has the right to hold a gun and shoot someone else who is holding a gun.

The problem is best illustrated when a police officer ends up shooting another police officer, because of this.

Was this story just an unfortunate accident? Or did that police officer (who was shot) stubbornly refuse to drop his gun because he thought he shouldn't have had to?

It's true this officer was technically off-duty at the time, but something like this could almost just as easily have happened if the officer had been on-duty.
#15256643
If you have a gun raised and the cops tell you to drop your gun you should do it, even if you think it's legally wrong. You can always fight it in court later. In this case it's better to be alive and wrong than dead and have your rights.

It's true this officer was technically off-duty at the time, but something like this could almost just as easily have happened if the officer had been on-duty.


Far less likely.
#15256846
There have frequently been situations in other countries where criminals dress as police. Or where local police are so corrupt, people are afraid of them.

A question can be asked, what exactly the "rules" should be in these sorts of situations - the proper "etiquette", if you will.

Should an individual always defer to another individual if they are dressed in a police uniform?
Does another party have the superior "right of way" if they are comprised of a larger group?

You know it is highly unlikely that any police officer would immediately drop his gun just because another person who had a gun ordered him to.
#15256861
Puffer Fish wrote:When police shoot at police because they are holding guns.

Off-Duty Vermont Deputy Shot by Cops in New York After Refusing To Drop Gun
On November 20, 2022, around 3:00 a.m. an off-duty deputy from the Rutland County Sheriff's Office was attacked by a group of about three people at the intersection of Caroline Street and Broadway in Saratoga Springs. After the deputy displayed a gun, one of the men in the group fired, with the deputy firing back. Police say seven to eight shots were in the exchange.

Saratoga Springs police officers patrolling in the nightlife district heard shots fired on Broadway, about a block away from their location. The Vermont deputy did not comply when asked to drop the weapon several times. When the sheriff's deputy, who was not in uniform, did not drop his weapon, Saratoga Springs officers opened fire. The deputy, who was not immediately identified, suffered 10 bullet wounds, including one to the chest, but was conscious and was expected to survive. The deputy's girlfriend was grazed by the gunfire and is also in stable condition at this time.

The deputy had gotten into a barroom argument with a group of three people from Utica. After the fight spilled onto the street, the deputy showed his weapon and the Utica man drew his, which was when gunfire broke out. Seven to eight shots were fired between the two, and the deputy shot the Utica man. All three gunshot victims were in stable condition at a hospital. Authorities didn't identify them. The Saratoga Springs officers who fired weapons have been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of an investigation "to find out if any policies or protocols were violated," Saratoga Springs Police Sgt. Paul Veitch said. That investigation is set to be conducted by the Saratoga Springs Police Department, he said.​

YouTube video here: Off-Duty Vermont Deputy Shot by Cops in New York After Refusing To Drop Gun - YouTube

Off-duty Vt. sheriff’s deputy shot by police in NY after gunfight (wcax.com)
https://www.wcax.com/2022/11/21/vt-sher ... -shooting/


It is common and normal for police to shoot at people who are holding a gun and will not drop it, despite being told to do so. Law enforcement officers are not questioned for this, and it is usually considered appropriate and legal.

That kind of raises the question of what is "fair" and morally right, not to mention theoretical legal questions of who has the right to hold a gun and shoot someone else who is holding a gun.

The problem is best illustrated when a police officer ends up shooting another police officer, because of this.

Was this story just an unfortunate accident? Or did that police officer (who was shot) stubbornly refuse to drop his gun because he thought he shouldn't have had to?

It's true this officer was technically off-duty at the time, but something like this could almost just as easily have happened if the officer had been on-duty.


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