Racism definition & use - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

For discussion of moral and ethical issues.
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15149966
wat0n wrote:Right, that I can understand. I do wonder though if her experience is actually representative of what you're saying. After all, Kamala Harris may be Black-Indian but both her parents fall into the high-income, highly educated part of the US population (her father, an immigrant from Jamaica, used to be tenured at Stanford's Department of Economics; her mother is a JD from Stanford).

In that sense, Kamala Harris not just successful (being a Senator is success in my book) herself but grew up in a household where success is the norm (getting doctoral degrees from Stanford are also examples of success in my book), and that is more successful than most Americans are. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I think, as long as she has her feet on Earth (and it seems she does).

Kamala is more white than your average white person. However, she is clever and knows what to say in the right moment.
#15149997
The abject racist @Julian658 said
"Kamala is more white than your average white person."


This is not even a good troll from you. Please endeavor not to add 'monumental dumb ass' to your already deserved label 'typical racist'.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15150098
Drlee wrote:The abject racist @Julian658 said

This is not even a good troll from you. Please endeavor not to add 'monumental dumb ass' to your already deserved label 'typical racist'.


For all practical purposes Kamala is not an African American. IN fact I think you are much more African American than Kamala. That explains why you yell "RACISM" 24/7.
#15150100
Julian658 wrote:For all practical purposes Kamala is not an African American. IN fact I think you are much more African American than Kamala. That explains why you yell "RACISM" 24/7.


It's quite amazing that you do not comprehend how racist this is.

Apparently for you if a person is acting in a professional manner then they are White, if they point out your racism they are acting like African-Americans.

:knife:

You need to be seen by someone for severe cognitive dissonance.

He's telling you this is racist, because it is.

Do you have anything to contribute other than open racism?

Why is racism so important to you? Have you even taken the moment to ask yourself?
#15150101
noemon wrote:Apparently for you if a person is acting in a professional manner then they are White, if they point out your racism they are acting like African-Americans.


Well, using his standards, I think he acts like a stereotypical African-American.

Unfortunately, most Trump supporters in America also do.
#15150103
noemon wrote:Well what you 're also saying is racist and you should not be aping racists because you are endorsing the African-American label as something inherently bad.


Using his standards.

I have a different ruler, although I don't deny that I am racist (against my own, as a matter of fact)
#15150105
noemon wrote:Using his racist standards makes you racist and attempts to legitimise those standards. That should be obvious.


I think using his standards to show that he's as bad as how he (wrongly) see others is a good way to show how his standards are wrong.

But I want to defend my freedom to be racist. I have my ruler of judgement based on statistical observations, but just like all statistical observations, exceptions exists and are as normal as the majority.

His fault is to apply his racism in discussions. IMHO it should be kept to oneself as much as possible, and applying it in social interaction or human-related decision making is a no-no.

For example, I am free to choose where to live and to avoid being near certain races of people, but if I have something to do with them (even not direct interaction), they are human all the same.
#15150106
I think using his standards to show that he's as bad as how he (wrongly) see others is a good way to show how his standards are wrong.


No. You 're wrong. You 're not showing anything to him by trying to insult him by calling him "African-American", you are merely endorsing that as an insult, which is racist.

There is a limit on the amount of racism that can be tolerated in here for educational purposes. Try not to push those limits and consider the question: what are you gaining from showing off your racism?
#15150112
noemon wrote:No. You 're wrong. You 're not showing anything to him by trying to insult him by calling him "African-American", you are merely endorsing that as an insult, which is racist.


He deserves getting it as an insult because this is what he's done.

Those who don't do that, on the other hand, don't deserve it. Otherwise, I would actually be the aggressor.


noemon wrote:There is a limit on the amount of racism that can be tolerated in here for educational purposes.


My take is that it should never be started, but if someone started it he or she deserves to be at the receiving end of it.
#15150113
Patrickov wrote:He deserves getting it as an insult because this is what he's done.

Those who don't do that, on the other hand, don't deserve it. Otherwise, I would actually be the aggressor.


Maybe he deserves an insult for being racist(even though that is debatable) taking the high-road is always the wiser decision to take, but even if we agree that he does then that should be an actual insult that insults him alone and not African-American people. Why should they be insulted? :eh:
#15150116
noemon wrote:Maybe he deserves an insult for being racist(even though that is debatable) taking the high-road is always the wiser decision to take, but even if we agree that he does then that would be an actual insult that insults him alone and not African-American people.


Rest assured that I don't share his view that African is inferior.

I said he acts like a "stereotypical African-American", which is different from actual African-American. And by declaring him acting like one, I think I have emphasised that
1. such stereotype is wrongly-branded, and
2. those people using such stereotype are the real ones who fit such stereotype, rather than the group of people they think as such.
#15150119
Patrickov wrote:Rest assured that I don't share his view that African is inferior.

I said he acts like a "stereotypical African-American", which is different from actual African-American. And by declaring him acting like one, I think I have emphasised that
1. such stereotype is wrongly-branded, and
2. those people using such stereotype are the real ones who fit such stereotype, rather than the group of people they think as such.


No it is not different and your ridiculous excuses do not make sense and are contradictory. When you 're wrong, consider the possibility of being wrong instead of digging your heels in, especially for no discernable reason whatsoever. What are you trying to achieve? the right to insult people by calling them "stereotypical African-Americans" ?

If you think this stereotype is wrong then DON'T USE IT!!! Right now you are defending your action to use it. And again for what reason? :eh:
#15150121
noemon wrote:It's quite amazing that you do not comprehend how racist this is.

Apparently for you if a person is acting in a professional manner then they are White, if they point out your racism they are acting like African-Americans.

:knife:

You need to be seen by someone for severe cognitive dissonance.

He's telling you this is racist, because it is.

Do you have anything to contribute other than open racism?

Why is racism so important to you? Have you even taken the moment to ask yourself?


Yes, it can be taken as racism if the other person is looking for racism 24/7. It can only be taken as racism if we develop a culture where some subjects are taboo because others may be offended. That plan markedly reduces dialog.

This is a quote from John McWhorter, one of my idols. He is talking about the Robin DiAngelo who wrote a book about how people are unknowingly racists.


A corollary question is why Black people need to be treated the way DiAngelo assumes we do. The very assumption is deeply condescending to all proud Black people. In my life, racism has affected me now and then at the margins, in very occasional social ways, but has had no effect on my access to societal resources; if anything, it has made them more available to me than they would have been otherwise. Nor should anyone dismiss me as a rara avis. Being middle class, upwardly mobile, and Black has been quite common during my existence since the mid-1960s, and to deny this is to assert that affirmative action for Black people did not work.

In 2020—as opposed to 1920—I neither need nor want anyone to muse on how whiteness privileges them over me. Nor do I need wider society to undergo teachings in how to be exquisitely sensitive about my feelings. I see no connection between DiAngelo’s brand of reeducation and vigorous, constructive activism in the real world on issues of import to the Black community. And I cannot imagine that any Black readers could willingly submit themselves to DiAngelo’s ideas while considering themselves adults of ordinary self-regard and strength. Few books about race have more openly infantilized Black people.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ty/614146/

I acknowledge that many, including you are into PC culture which in a sense stifles dialogue. IN this video Zizek who is a lefty explores this issue. When I say Kamala is whither than whites there is implicit sarcasm in the form of a joke. Zizek states that if we cannot talk in this manner racism actually increases.



To summarize. I am not going to infantilize Dr. Lee, he is a grown man and is not fragile.
#15150124
Julian658 wrote:Yes, it can be taken as racism if the other person is looking for racism 24/7. It can only be taken as racism if we develop a culture where some subjects are taboo because others may be offended. That plan markedly reduces dialog.


It is not a matter of perspective. It is matter of fact. Using the term 'African-American' as an insult is racist. Using the term American as an insult is racist and the term Jew and whatever ethnos or community you feel you have the right to use as an insult.

Legitimising this sort of racist language is what makes racism worse, not the other way around.

Use it again and you will be carded and your post removed as per our Forum Rules.

Fair warning provided to you and to the rest of the racists watching.
#15150126
noemon wrote:And again for what reason? :eh:


It is fair to make him have a taste of his own medicine.

In an episode of South Park, the word "fag" is used to insult a group of annoying Harley bikers, instead of homosexuals. At the end, homosexuals themselves use the very word to insult those Harley bikers.

I am applying the same principle against racists. They are being inferior to whatever race they (secretly) think inferior to them, so they deserve the term rather than the group in concern. To avoid confusion I added "stereotypical" so as to differ the real African-Americans.
#15150129
Patrickov wrote:It is fair to make him have a taste of his own medicine.

In an episode of South Park, the word "fag" is used to insult a group of annoying Harley bikers, instead of homosexuals. At the end, homosexuals themselves use the very word to insult those Harley bikers.

I am applying the same principle against racists. They are being inferior to whatever race they (secretly) think inferior to them, so they deserve the term rather than the group in concern. To avoid confusion I added "stereotypical" so as to differ the real African-Americans.


"South Park did it, I can do it too is not an argument".

Homosexual people were upset with South Park and took it as an insult which it was.

Your discussion in here has succeeded in showing things several things about yourself and character and not much else of anything.

You moral compass is broken. When racist are racists, we do not become racists to "show them", we lead by example.

Most importantly we do not endorse racist terms because that makes us racists.

If you want to insult Julian, it can be done without insulting African Americans. Unless you are merely pretending and you just want to insult African Americans all along in which case you just deserve to be insulted yourself.
#15150130
noemon wrote:It is not a matter of perspective. It is matter of fact. Using the term 'African-American' as an insult is racist. Using the term American as an insult is racist and the term Jew and whatever ethnos or community you feel you have the right to use as an insult.

Legitimising this sort of racist language is what makes racism worse, not the other way around.

Use it again and you will be carded and your post removed as per our Forum Rules.

Fair warning provided to you and to the rest of the racists watching.

Have you ever read the things Dr. Lee says about me? I am from Latin America and he openly says derogatory insults to me because I am Latin. I am not talking about subtle. stuff. I did not take it personally because I do not believe in extreme PC. I also realized he was very upset.
#15150132
Julian658 wrote:Have you ever read the things Dr. Lee says about me? I am from Latin America and he openly says derogatory insults to me because I am Latin. I am not talking about subtle. stuff. I did not take it personally because I do not believe in extreme PC. I also realized he was very upset.


I have not seen anything like that by DrLee, no. You need to provide evidence but even if he did it would still not make it right.

It is not "PC" to be told that you cannot use 'African-American' as an insult. It is common human decency expected by normal people.

Latinos must confront 'ingrained' anti-black racism amid George Floyd protests, some urge wrote:
Ana Sanz, 26, marched for about 10 miles with a sprained ankle on Monday in Washington, D.C., to protest the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis and to demand accountability for the dehumanization of black people at the hands of law enforcement.

But Sanz, an Afro-Latinx from Washington who works with women overcoming domestic and sexual violence, said it's also time for something else — for her fellow Latinos to confront the racism and anti-blackness within the community.

Proximity to "Eurocentricity and whiteness is how our ancestors survived" through oppression, a painful legacy that still prevails and needs to be eradicated, Sanz said.

Although she was shaken by military-grade helicopters that felt like a "tornado," she said, the turbulent protests did not stop long-overdue discussions about anti-black Latino racism and discrimination.

White-presenting Latinos should use this time to "reconcile with the privilege" their light skin gives them in systems tainted with white supremacy and figure out ways to use it in a productive way, Sanz said.

Jasmine Haywood, an Afro-Latina who has researched anti-black Latino racism, told NBC News that millennial Latinos like Sanz are looking to break cycles of internalized racism and the ways Latinos perpetuate and uphold white supremacy.

"What Latinos need to realize is that our oppression is bound up and intertwined with the oppression of the black community," Haywood said. "Until they are liberated, until they are free from injustices and oppression, we will never be liberated."

Haywood said anti-blackness sentiments are "ingrained in our cultures" in part because generations of Latinos were "taught to seek partners that have a certain European or white phenotype or lighter skin to lighten their family trees."


George Zimmerman, the son of an Afro-Peruvian mother and a white father, shot and killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager. Jeronimo Yanez, a Latino police officer, fatally shot Philando Castile, 32, during a traffic stop. In a research paper she co-authored, Haywood described those instances as "violent white supremacy being deployed through white-passing U.S. Latinx bodies."

Nearly 60 million Latinos live in the United States, most of whom can trace back their heritages to Latin America and the Caribbean. A 2016 Pew Research Center survey reported that a quarter of all U.S. Latinos identify as Afro-Latino or Afro-Caribbean or of African descent with roots in Latin America.

'We are tired of it': Latinos denounce police violence as they protest George Floyd death
José Vilson, a math teacher in New York City who happens to be a black Latino man, grew up visiting the Dominican Republic during the Christmas holidays. "When you go to Santo Domingo, which is the capital, almost everybody there is about as dark, if not darker, than I am. You can obviously see they're descendants of enslaved people," he told NBC News.

While Latinos largely acknowledge their ethnicity and African roots — dating to Latin America's colonial period, when mixing occurred among indigenous people, white Europeans, slaves from Africa and Asians — many still struggle to consider themselves as black. In Pew's survey, 39 percent of Afro-Latinos identified as white, while only 18 percent identified as black; even more Afro-Latinos (24 percent) said their race was "Hispanic" — which is an ethnicity, not a race.

"They don't see the correlation of how ethnicity and race are two different aspects of their identity," Sanz said, adding that some feel that "their Latinx history and culture will be erased" if they identify as black or white, "which is not the case — and that again is possibly erasing the experiences of black and indigenous people."

At the same time, Latinos of every color face overt and subtle racism and discrimination, whether they were born in the U.S. or not. Hate crimes against them are on the rise. Many Latinos are harassed and even arrested for speaking Spanish in public, and they continue to face practical roadblocks to gain access to health care and economic and educational opportunities.

Afro-Latinos 'first seen as black'
But despite their ethnic identification or the language they may speak, Afro-Latinos are "first seen as black to white America," unlike white-presenting Latinos, Haywood said, adding that people witnessed "a prime example" of that discrepancy during the recent arrest of a reporter.

CNN correspondent Omar Jimenez, whose mother is black and whose father identifies as Colombian, was arrested on live TV last week while he was covering the protests in Minneapolis — even though his media credentials appeared visible. A colleague, fellow correspondent Josh Campbell, "a white reporter also on the ground," was not arrested, according to CNN.

"He's an Afro-Latino male, and his Latinidad didn't save him in that situation. He was still arrested because he's a black man, period," said Haywood, who works at Lumina Foundation, an Indianapolis-based organization seeking to expand educational opportunities for people.

"White-passing Latinos really need to come to terms with their privilege in the context of anti-blackness," whether they were born in the U.S., Latin America or the Caribbean, and they "need to just accept the reality that we also come from a racist society that is embedded in white supremacy," Varela said.

"If you look at Latin America, in general, we literally carry around that baggage and bring that system with us," Varela said.

"There's been really uncomfortable, real conversations going on for years around this issue, and I'm actually encouraged that this could be the tipping point, but the important observation here is that right now, black voices need to be amplified," Varela said.

Haywood compared white supremacy to air — "you can't help but breathe it in and be a part of it" — but she said acknowledging one's racial biases is the first step in confronting anti-black racism.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 44
Self clarification

Been thinking a little bit about what irks me abou[…]

Nah, nonsense. It's wholly accurate. I'm not refe[…]

There are two things about talking points, whethe[…]

Yea, ok.. whatever.