[Political Interest]

It is the culture and morality of the collective society, through media and entertainment that helps explain why Western culture has declined so much.

Even going back to the 1990s you can see what sort of abysmal nonsense was on TV and on the radio in those days.

At some point it became fashionable to be obnoxious, in your face and provocative. I don't know where this came from but a lot of Westerners have such an attitude now.

I like the Western culture that existed up until about 1965 much more. Then it started to decline at rapid pace.

[B0ycey]

It is the culture and morality of the collective society, through media and entertainment that helps explain why Western culture has declined so much.

Even going back to the 1990s you can see what sort of abysmal nonsense was on TV and on the radio in those days.

At some point it became fashionable to be obnoxious, in your face and provocative. I don't know where this came from but a lot of Westerners have such an attitude now.

I would say there is always been obnoxious, in your face and provocative people in society even before TV. I would also say the Amish wouldn't be excluded from that and would have its fair share of dicks in their society. The issue is, to be Amish is to be submissive. That is everyone accepts a underlying moral truth, don't question it and then accept it and act according to it. Do you remember Victoribus Spolia? He made an entire thread on 'Objective Morality' and its premises was based on accepting the word of God which explains a lot of what the Amish is all about. So the Amish are no different to us. And to some extent this is true of Islamic Fundamentalism. But because they have lost their free will, they will act in the interest of that belief. And that is the difference I guess between us. Morality to a Western Society is subjective, we act accordingly to whatever we personally accept to be Morality correct, try and entice that belief onto others and that causes conflict in society whilst to the Amish it is objective. The balance of course is finding the middle ground.

[late]

You can pry my virtual gun from my cold, dead, virtual hands...

[Political Interest]

I would say there is always been obnoxious, in your face and provocative people in society even before TV. I would also say the Amish wouldn't be excluded from that and would have its fair share of dicks in their society. The issue is, to be Amish is to be submissive. That is everyone accepts a underlying moral truth, don't question it and then accept it and act according to it. Do you remember Victoribus Spolia? He made an entire thread on 'Objective Morality' and its premises was based on accepting the word of God which explains a lot of what the Amish is all about. So the Amish are no different to us. And to some extent this is true of Islamic Fundamentalism. But because they have lost their free will, they will act in the interest of that belief. And that is the difference I guess between us. Morality to a Western Society is subjective, we act accordingly to whatever we personally accept to be Morality correct, try and entice that belief onto others and that causes conflict in society whilst to the Amish it is objective. The balance of course is finding the middle ground.

I agree. We in the West used to have similar restrictions on behaviour. There were always good and bad people in our society but if someone was less than ideal they had to compensate by having some redeemable qualities. There are increasingly fewer restrictions on socially acceptable behaviour and the worst elements of society are taking advantage of this. General weirdness is being more accepted than it was before as well. Some people act like they are stark raving mad. I can only wonder what the Chinese and Russians must think of us, and not only them but the entire world outside America and Europe.

[Unthinking Majority]

I would say there is always been obnoxious, in your face and provocative people in society even before TV.

We haven't always been so drugged out and obsessed with having pre-marital sex or leaving our children fatherless and posting pictures of our fake boobs and fake ass and fake tans on instagram while 35 year old fellas jerk off looking at them while living in their parents basement because they're lazy porn addicted losers too scared to ask out a real female and the only goals they've accomplished in life happened in a video game. Achievement unlocked.

On the other hand, 200 years ago half your kids died before the age of 5 and your husband raped you so you had 8 kids anyways, and if you got a bad infection you were dead so people lived until they were like 50 because the nearest hospital was a 5 day horse-ride away and black people were treated like animals and they burned witches, and gay people were murdered too. And if you survived all that they sent you off to war to die.

[B0ycey]

We haven't always been so drugged out and obsessed with having pre-marital sex or leaving our children fatherless and posting pictures of our fake boobs and fake ass and fake tans on instagram while 35 year old fellas jerk off looking at them while living in their parents basement because they're lazy porn addicted losers too scared to ask out a real female and the only goals they've accomplished in life happened in a video game. Achievement unlocked.

I guess the point I was making is the same type of people we have today have always been around. Sociopaths aren't linked to society but personality or more specifically genetics. And there will be sociopaths in the Amish community as well, mainly the top of the hierarchy given they would like the control I suspect.

But really that is one aspect of the point I was making anyway. You may criticise Western Society for being plastic or sloth like. But it is the free will that makes people desire our society. People don't actually become Amish very often despite it having an appeal because of the sacrifices you have to make. Life as an Amish person isn't all about big families, large homes, being debt free and community. It is about being submissive to God, to act according, hard manual labor and to give up on technology.

[Igor Antunov]

Kumpfy

[MistyTiger]

The thing is Igor, you can live with the Amish. Just move to Pennsylvania, do all the bible work, prove your worth and in time be accepted by the community. But something tells me you won't do it.

I agree. He would not do it. He would miss the porn. I'm pretty certain that the Amish do not have adult video stores.

The truth is the Amish do a lot of things right which is why they appeal to people. Perhaps they are even the perfect Communist. But they also do a lot of things that people wouldn't like. Forget gender roles, which is debatable anyway because a lot of women and men do instinctively set amongst themselves anyway. The main issue is they are religious. Like really religious. Your existence is to God and if you doing something the elders don't like you are basically ostracised. Then there is technology. No games or PoFo any more. Best be picking up those books instead. Especially the bible which you need to know inside out btw. And manual labor, thats right, everything old school. You are also isolated. Best not like entertainment or a few drinks on a hot day. You can look forward to watching your kids playing in an empty field as you haven't got a TV any more. In other words, the things everyone wants from society like a home, debt free, shared amenities, healthcare, schooling, community and whatever else the Amish do that you like (and so do I), you trade all that for your liberty, self worth, luxury and freedom.

Maybe Igor can visit an Amish community and learn how to make natural soap. If they use castor oil, it might be a little stinky.