[Agent Steel]

I believe fat people are the next group of oppressed people to have a civil rights movement. In my unpopular view, I actually sympathize with them. Let me explain why.

I eat like a pig and live a somewhat sedentary life and yet I have never gotten fat. While I have always included some exercise in my routine, I should be a lot more fat than I am. This leads me to believe that I probably have some kind of genetic advantage which makes it easier for me to stay in shape. Fat people put forth the effort to lose weight and yet they fail. I think honestly they must have some kind of medical condition, something with their metabolism, the way in which their bodies process calories, that makes them disadvantaged to people like me. I really think that we should stop putting blame onto them. Now don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people out there who get fat because they are irresponsible and neglect themselves. But I'm talking about people who are trying hard, dieting, exercising, and yet still failing to lose the weight.

We need to show love and compassion for them because their condition is not by choice.

Who agrees with me?

[Drlee]

We need to show love and compassion for them because their condition is not by choice.

No. We need to show love and compassion for them because they are our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, fellow human beings.

But obesity can be a severe medical problem. Or lead to some. And it is equally true that some if not many obese people are literally digging their graves with their spoons. I was one of them.

My doctor told me to lose weight. He did not do this to be unkind but rather because my health was in jeopardy. He told me how. We talked about exercise. I did that. And he told me to stop eating too much and too much of the wrong things specifically.

If you had a child you loved, would you let him/her eat a whole bag of Oreo cookies? Would you let him drink two big gulp cokes every day for a whopping 1200 calories all from processed sugar? Of course you would not. FGS man. You would put your dog on a diet but not your friends? It is unkind in the extreme to some how validate unhealthy behavior.

Now I am not talking about shouting "fatty" and insulting overweight people. I am talking about compassionate care for them. How about walking with them to help them get started. How about, when people come to your house, serving healthy food in reasonable portions?

I am conflicted about the whole "body acceptance" thing. Not all overweight people are unhealthy. Studies clearly show that some degree of excess fat is not a health issue. Indeed some studies show just the opposite. But there is a limit.

We are "mean" to smokers. We shame them all of the time. Why? Is that OK? Are some people so anxious that smoking (or stopping smoking) could be the lesser of two evils? Well not very many. We are very direct about smoking. In whose interest? In the smoker's interest.

Are there some people who find it easier to keep slim and trim? Yes. But life is not fair. Some people just have to work harder to achieve a goal. That may suck for them but sometimes the benefit outweighs the sacrifice.

I am not talking now about the person who is carrying a few extra pounds. I am carrying a few extra these days. I am talking about the morbidly obese; a term by the way that is no longer used. Class III obesity is the term now.

Overweight: BMI 25.0-29.9 kg/m²
Class I Obesity: BMI 30.0-34.9 kg/m²
Class II Obesity: BMI 35.0-39.9 kg/m²
Class III Obesity: BMI ≥ 40.0 kg/m² or 100 pounds over ideal body weight.

What does it mean if we do not try to educate and motivate obese people to lose weight? Just this:

Other problems come from abnormal changes in how our body functions due to having excess body fat (adipose tissue). Examples of these are:

Type 2 diabetes
High cholesterol and heart disease
Increased risk of many cancers
High blood pressure
Fatty liver disease
Dementia
Stroke
Kidney disease
Gout
Asthma
Blood clots
Infertility and polycystic ovary syndrome
Erectile dysfunction
Pregnancy complications
on and on.

And then there are the psychological issues attendant with poor body image. Sadly society discriminates against overweight people. A lot. You and I may choose to be totally accepting of all people regardless of size but we are just a drop in the ocean of our society.

Movements for body acceptance are good in this regard. What we don't want to do is condemn our fellow human beings to a much shorter life, of increased disease and disability. We need to start early on in a child's life and work to teach them to be healthier.

Here is something that cannot be denied. Obesity, as an epidemic, is a very recent phenomena. And it is mostly about what we eat an how much. And about how much we exercise.

[Godstud]

@Drlee QFT,

I had a few problems that disappeared when I dropped 25 kg.

- Blood pressure went down.
- I could do something without getting winded.
- I stopped snoring(My wife appreciated that).
- I started to look better in my clothes and it was a big ego boost to have women looking at me, again. The compliments didn't hurt, either

The benefits of losing weight are many.

The BMI thing is crap, though, for the most part. The FFMI is better. https://www.calculators.org/health/ffmi.php

[wat0n]

FFMI is better but not practical. It's hard to tell what your body fat percentage is.

I also used to be fat. It's far, far better to stop being fat and also grow some muscle.

And yes, stopping being fat is hard. It took me many years to figure out how. Yet only a small percentage are fat due to some medical reason like e.g. a thyroid problem. Medical treatment helps those people lose the weight and the fat quickly.

[Godstud]

Obesity due to medical problems is an extremely small minority(less than 1%). It's a common excuse for being fat. That's about it.

Diet is the predominant factor in weight loss. Change what you eat and how much of it.

[Verv]

Obesity due to medical problems is an extremely small minority(less than 1%). It's a common excuse for being fat. That's about it.

Diet is the predominant factor in weight loss. Change what you eat and how much of it.

I agree with this.

But let me also say that there really might be something wrong with the food that we are eating, too. Our lifestyles have also changed, making us more sedentary.

When I was in school, a considerable amount of time was invested in trying to educate us on nutrition, yet, it did not appear to have any effect.

There is some kind of crisis... I think that it is mostly a crisis of willpower, but that there are some other things happening which make it worse.

[MistyTiger]

Also, some medications can lower metabolism and therefore increase weight gain. My sister is on several such medications. Her circulation is bad in part because of the medication and she also feels sluggish due to the drugs. She also learned to accept the way that "everbody" is. If "everybody" drinks gatorade and eats Burger King, then she will want to follow.

I know a girl who wrote on her facebook profile that she is all about "body positivity". The thing is though, she has only gotten fatter as she has aged. It does not seem like she is doing much to keep in shape. She was the one who said when we were pre-teens, "I exercised last Thursday, it didn't work." She also wore girdles under her clothes I suspect, noticed her smoothing her stomach and looked like she was feeling a bit squeezed. She removed me from her friend list some years ago, could be because I have been slimming down over the years. I do not post full-body shots but my face is less pudgy. She once commented about my "tight cheeks"...face cheeks to be more specific.

[tomskunk]

@Agent Steel

I believe fat people are the next group of oppressed people to have a civil rights movement. In my unpopular view, I actually sympathize with them. Let me explain why.

I eat like a pig and live a somewhat sedentary life and yet I have never gotten fat. While I have always included some exercise in my routine, I should be a lot more fat than I am. This leads me to believe that I probably have some kind of genetic advantage which makes it easier for me to stay in shape. Fat people put forth the effort to lose weight and yet they fail. I think honestly they must have some kind of medical condition, something with their metabolism, the way in which their bodies process calories, that makes them disadvantaged to people like me. I really think that we should stop putting blame onto them. Now don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people out there who get fat because they are irresponsible and neglect themselves. But I'm talking about people who are trying hard, dieting, exercising, and yet still failing to lose the weight.

We need to show love and compassion for them because their condition is not by choice.

Who agrees with me?

That's basically how it is. Some people win the genetic lottery and are privileged in the sense that they can eat like a pig all their lives into old age and still stay skinny no matter what they eat and how little they exercise. They get treated better. Others, who didn't win the genetic lottery, well you're fucked. Too bad for you. You get treated bad too for it and it's not entirely your fault. It's bullshit.

Naturally, society can be very fake and shallow and only judge solely on appearances rather than ability. It's not right. It's not fair. But that's the way it is. It's a fact that people who are not fat get treated better, are promoted more, and make more money, simply because of their appearance. You get some others who are fat, work hard, have better ability in certain fields, but don't get the promotions they deserve simply because of appearance. I shit you not now and I am not exaggerating. This is the way it is. Life isn't fair. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Moreover, if you are fat, you are more likely to get shitty customer service and to be treated shittier. ALLL because, you weren't lucky enough to win the genetic lottery when you were born.

Now, that being said, you hit the nail on the head that just because one doesn't win the genetic lottery when they are born like others might have, that doesn't mean you shouldn't take steps to take care of your health. You should and you need to. But those who didn't win the genetic lottery also don't need to worry about what other people think about them or whether they are accepted by others. The most important thing is that these people accept themselves, love themselves, and take action to take care of their health. Not to mention, stand up for themselves too when it is warranted.

You might not ever be perfectly skinny like some people who were fortunate by being born with good genes or just become physical fitness health nuts to maintain their figure (which I think over-exercise and going to the extremes is bad for anybody), but at least you are trying your best and doing what you can without worrying about what others think. You can't worry about what other people think all the time. That can be bad for both your mental and physical health can lead you to hate yourself. This is where eating disorders come from and such.

Really, making fun of fat people for being fat, you know, it's just going to make it worse for them if they are NOT mentally tough because they will either eat a lot more than they have been because they are depressed or they will resort to eating disorders where they starve themselves. Some might even go crazy on over-exercise. None of this is good for any of them. Really, losing weight requires professional advice in my opinion to do it a mentally and physically healthy way and there is no instant solutions or easy solutions either. Losing weight takes a long time to do it right and the healthy way. You have to stick to it. Plus, many people have very demanding and exhausting schedules too which can make time for exercise scarce. It's tough.

[tomskunk]

@Agent Steel

See another thing contributing to the obesity epidemic is poverty. If you live in poverty, healthy food is expensive so you might not be able to afford healthy food. If that's the case, you better hope you won the genetic lottery when you were born and can eat shitty food and stay skinny. Otherwise, the fact you were born into poverty makes it much more likely you will be obese.

Whereas, those who were not born into poverty and into wealth will be able to more easily afford to buy the more expensive healthy food and eat healthily and are less likely to be obese. This is the reality in the United States. Now, in other countries, like Europe for example, I hear that healthy food is not expensive like it is in the United States. This probably explains why Europeans do not have as much a problem with obesity as the U.S. does. Healthy food is more accessible over there to everybody as opposed to the United States.

Another thing to consider is that just because one is skinny doesn't mean they are necessarily healthy and just because somebody looks chubby doesn't necessarily mean they are unhealthy.

[Godstud]

@Agent Steel You're still young. Wait.

I used to eat anything and everything up until I hit around 30 and then that changed. You might be on easy street now, but wait and see.

Yes, the genetic lottery can make you luckier than most, but it doesn't meant you are healthy.

[Agent Steel]

Good points @Drlee. And thank you for the engagement.

I think what I'm getting at is that we need to stop placing blame on people for being overweight, because for some people, they lack the ability to do it, or, it's much harder for some people. I think we need to understand that people have different genetic factors that make it harder for them to lose weight. I am not advocating for fat acceptance, rather, I'm saying we should stop being mean to people who are fat. We should lend them a helping hand. Berating them, telling them it's their fault, only worsens the problem.

But let me also say that there really might be something wrong with the food that we are eating, too.

Another good point worth mentioning. In America there are dangerous ingredients that go into much of the foods we consume. When I travel to Europe I eat all the same kinds of foods I do in the USA (pizza, pork, candy, chips, cereal, soft drinks, etc.) But for some reason every time I come back from Europe I have lost weight. The food must be processed differently somehow. Where it comes from, how it's made, has much to do with how fattening it ends up being.

[Drlee]

I think what I'm getting at is that we need to stop placing blame on people for being overweight,

I disagree. IF IF IF it their actions that are making them fat then they need to know that. It is the job of their doctor and loved ones to do that, not society in general.

because for some people, they lack the ability to do it, or, it's much harder for some people.

NIH SAYS:

The current obesity epidemic does not have a purely genetic basis, although genetics do play a large role in susceptibility. Changes to lifestyle over the past century have created an “obesogenic environment” in which underlying individual genetic factors contributing to risk can be exposed. With the advent of GWAS, we have finally started to detect robust associations between common genetic variants and obesity. Many of the earliest genetic associations hinted that susceptibility to obesity might act through CNS action, and that the response to obesogenic environment exposure may be neurobehaviorally driven. In addition, other evidence suggests that some genetic variants act peripherally (eg, in adipose tissue).

Although GWAs have been successful in identifying obesity loci, these only explain a small fraction of the interindividual variation, so that additional genetic factors remain to be detected. However, these findings will only yield useful therapeutic interventions, once functional variants are exposed and further molecular and physiologic characterization of the genes and pathways involved is performed.

It is important to understand that although there are genetically determined predisposition to obesity, as it stands now about the only treatment we have is diet and exercise. (A few drugs for obvious causes.) Sadly, as you correctly point out, some people simply have to work harder to avoid obesity than other people do. But they mostly can avoid it with enough discipline and effort.

That some people are fine being obese is fine with me and it is frankly none of my business. It is my responsibility to avoid using terms like sloth and indiscipline to judge others. Though in some cases these terms my actually correct.

I think we need to understand that people have different genetic factors that make it harder for them to lose weight. I am not advocating for fat acceptance, rather, I'm saying we should stop being mean to people who are fat. We should lend them a helping hand. Berating them, telling them it's their fault, only worsens the problem.

Sort of. Telling them that "it" is their fault is critical to showing them what they can do to avoid obesity if indeed that is what they want to do. But that should come from their loved ones (parents, spouse) or doctor.

[tomskunk]

@Drlee

That's where you and I don't agree and part ways on this topic because there are simply factors not under the control of those who suffer from obsiety. One of those factors being genetics. That is an UNDENIABLE FACT. Your source says PURELY genetic. But your source DOESN'T say that genetic plays no role. Genetics DO in FACT play a role. And the fact that somebody was unfortunate enough to be born into poverty is not their fault either. And you blaming them and fat shaming them, based on the FACTS of research, demonstrates, that it DOES make the obesity problem worse. The false notion that it is ALL THE FAULT of those who are obese leads to others justifying prejudice and discrimination and being a bigot and mean towards those who are overweight. That's not right dude.

[Unthinking Majority]

Putting food in your mouth is a choice, so is sitting around watching TV and not exercising.

Some people have body types where if they eat their bodies will store lots of calories as fat and they get obese easily. But I've seen a lot of celebrities and friends get their stomachs stapled and now they're skinny. So they aren't doomed by their genetics, they're doomed by their gluttony and sloth.

[tomskunk]

@Unthinking Majority @Drlee @Agent Steel

I thought this meme was pretty funny. Of course, comedy is truth and there is always truth in comedy. I know we are a fat obese nation. Still, I thought it was funny and you have to be able to laugh at yourself.

[Drlee]

@Drlee

That's where you and I don't agree and part ways on this topic because there are simply factors not under the control of those who suffer from obsiety. One of those factors being genetics. That is an UNDENIABLE FACT. Your source says PURELY genetic. But your source DOESN'T say that genetic plays no role. Genetics DO in FACT play a role. And the fact that somebody was unfortunate enough to be born into poverty is not their fault either. And you blaming them and fat shaming them, based on the FACTS of research, demonstrates, that it DOES make the obesity problem worse. The false notion that it is ALL THE FAULT of those who are obese leads to others justifying prejudice and discrimination and being a bigot and mean towards those who are overweight. That's not right dude.

You did not read what I posted at all. Now go back and read it and tell me where I posted or said anything that does not agree with what you just wrote.

Seriously guy. You are too close to this one.

After you have done that we can reengage.

[tomskunk]

@Drlee

It's no big deal man. Not everybody is going to agree with me and it's not my job to change anybody's mind on anything. Don't sweat it man. I'm not worried about it. I am just familiar with what it is like to struggle with your weight and it sucks. But that's life and I am doing well and so far it seems I have been losing weight the healthy way, so I am happy.

[Verv]

I thought about this again today...

For many people, the only chunk of time they have to themselves in the day is in the evening. They get home at 6:30 PM, and they need to eat and do chores. They also need to raise their children and love their pets. They've got maybe 4 hours of "free time" (scare quotes because this time is seldom free).

An hour of exercise on a weekday is luxurious.

And if you have family, you are not simply going through the process of spending an hour exercising instead of watching TV/playing video games. You are stealing an hour away from your spouse & children.

Thus you have to eat responsibly when there is no time to exercise, and you are no longer young.

Honestly, this is a pretty lackluster setup we've got going, guys.

We made a mistake somewhere.

[tomskunk]

@Verv

I agree with you Verv. Not much time for exercise, especially when you have to steal time away from family. Something has to give somewhere. You have to eat healthy in such circumstances and hopefully, you have the money to do it.

[Verv]

@Verv

I agree with you Verv. Not much time for exercise, especially when you have to steal time away from family. Something has to give somewhere. You have to eat healthy in such circumstances and hopefully, you have the money to do it.

Yes, it really does become a duty because we all have social obligations, and hurting our health is a net loss not just for ourselves, but for our family and the people who depend on us.

I say this not to shame people or to say they are a burden -- I say this only to help motivate people toward their health goals.

Many people are overweight and live very long lives... But I have thought that it would be best for everyone if I can really maximize my time on this earth if only to be able to squirrel away more money for my loved ones and not have all my money evaporate in some health crisis. Early death and costly healthcare are all worries for being overweight.

So, we must diet & eat well not just for ourselves, but for our families.

I try to also remember the some of the women at work are literally eating small, super-healthy meals to be thin. I do not say this because I am pressuring women to be thin, no, women should focus on only being healthy as they see fit, and I think that 'lookism' is extremely toxic, as I would never evaluate my male friends worth by their looks, why shoudl I ever evaluate a woman's worth by her looks... I bring this up only to say that the majority of thin people out there are sacrificing.

It's not magic.

I think it was one of the big chess players who said people always tell him how amazing he is at the game, and he routinely repies, you wouldn't think any of this was amazing if you knew how much work I put into it.

The same is true of health. Some extreme minority are perhaps right in the zone of having a perfect body for 15-20 years of their life because of genetics, but even many of the celebrities we idolize are on strict diet & exercise regimens to look like that, and would look just like us if they weren't and were out of makeup.