[blackjack21]

Your argument is bullshit.

My girlfriend's daughter agrees with me. I'll listen to American youth, before some Canadian expat living under a military government any day. Most of them don't even know what an assault weapon is.

So stationing police officers outside every school is your solution, or is it enforcing gun control? make up your fucking mind.

Neither. The Parkland shooter had already committed felonies. Obama's efforts to stop "school-to-prison" creates a situation where budding criminals aren't punished. Sometimes that leads to their own deaths, such as in the Trayvon Martin case. Sometimes it leads to them killing others, as in the Parkland case. In the latter case, the shooter was already known--even to the FBI. That's also the case in the Omar Mateen shooting of LGBTQ people. Ironically, Mateen's father was a paid FBI informant. Once again, they did nothing.

The requirements for citizenship apply to everyone, regardless of where they are from. How is that relevant to the current discussion?

You brought up non-whites. Syrians are "refugees." Why do they need to be considered for "citizenship"? In the United States, illegally resident Mexicans are exploited for their labor, not for becoming citizens. So if open borders is something you champion in the United States, why would you use the language of border enforcement and enfranchisement in Thailand?

:roll: Nice try, racist. Racial segregation isn't going to stop these incidents. Gun control is.

Gun control doesn't stop mass shootings. Columbine happened during the last ban on assault weapons. These bans do nothing to stop crime. California bans the sale of assault weapons. However, you can make your own. You can comply with the law and register it, or you can not comply with the law and not register it. You can also purchase a weapon illegally, as the San Bernardino county shooters did.

As for racism, you people always seem to bring up how black people end up on the wrong side of the law. What are you going to do with blacks who violate gun control laws? I've pointed examples multiple times where a young black man is charged with a felony for a victimless crime, usually possession of a gun while doing something stupid. You people will be claiming "racism" once your gun control measures are enforced.

Your solution to school shootings is to shut down schools, and do home-schooling? Any other stupid fucking ideas? You seem to chock full of them, today.

Maybe to prevent mass shootings, we just need to prevent masses. Gun control is a stupid fucking idea too.

Not in a school, in the USA. Irrelevant to the discussion.

Killing people with knives happens. Mass killing with knives (or swords) happens too.

If they'd had guns, hundreds would have died.

If they had hijacked 767's, thousands would die. In Nice, 86 people died from a truck attack. There were 7 attackers in the Bataclan attack with 130 deaths. Trucks can be significantly more dangerous. The Las Vegas shooting had 58 deaths and one shooter. So I think you are overstating things. If defendants had guns, the shootings would have had fewer casualties.

Banning certain weapons, is not racist. Your argument is stupid, AGAIN. I also dismiss it, as you're one of the most racist right-wingers on this forum.

Who gets prosecuted the most? Most violent crimes in the United States are perpetrated by blacks. You seem to want to omit that fact from your argument for gun control. Who do you think is most adversely affected by these laws? Who do you think is going to get arrested and convicted? I am one of the few people who is willing to call you leftists out on your own bullshit. I'm one of the few who points out that the 1994 crime law was championed and signed by Bill Clinton. Then, we get the ridiculous racial arguments from the political left and this "Black Lives Matter" bullshit, which claims that Republicans are the bad guys. Where are most of the violent crimes committed? A: In places that have been governed by Democrats for decades.

In America, according to Obama's DoJ, a black is 27 times more likely to attack a white and 8 times more likely to attack a Hispanic than the other way around. These laws invariably fall hardest on black people. Yet, the same people claiming we need these laws then object to their enforcement, because they are violated by racial minorities the most frequently. Deaths affect blacks the most too.




Most white gun deaths are suicides, not violent crimes.

Not yet, but old assholes who consider guns more important than lives are going to die off, and the young people who don't like all the gun violence will change the laws so that the people are safer.

That's what they said when I was young. It didn't happen. What happened is that AR-15s became the most popular weapon in the United States. As usual, sales of AR-15s are soaring. If I were an arms manufacturer, I would pay you to say the things you say. It's the best advertising for the arms industry imaginable.

Those young people you dismiss now, are the people who are going to vote that 2nd Amendment into the gutter of history, where it belongs.

It'll never happen.

The old white male assholes will just have to sit at home lamenting, hand-wringing, and whinging about their lost gun rights.

We already know how to machine them at home with home CNC machines. Times have changed. Technology has changed. The dream of the socialists is slipping way as computer-technology driven decentralization and individual empowerment is making the old dimensions of centralized power less relevant.

[Hong Wu]

Skimmed the thread, read Godstud saying that kids are allowed to skip school and have the knowledge/money to organize a march on Washington DC

[Godstud]

@Hong Wu you obviously are not capable of understanding an argument that doesn't involve your feelings. Am I to assume that your whole contribution to this discussion is to admit that students having to do what adults are incapable of doing is an embarrassment to Americans?

My girlfriend's daughter agrees with me. I'll listen to American youth, before some Canadian expat living under a military government any day. Most of them don't even know what an assault weapon is.

Your girlfriend's daughter is obviously incapable of understanding(much like you)then. I as much about this as some American racist spouting out hate speech at every opportunity, who has lacks the empathy and compassion to not want school children to get killed because adults won't enact proper gun control. It's not hard to understand what an assault weapon is. If you can figure it out, then a 16 year old can.

Neither. The Parkland shooter had already committed felonies. Obama's efforts to stop "school-to-prison" creates a situation where budding criminals aren't punished. Sometimes that leads to their own deaths, such as in the Trayvon Martin case. Sometimes it leads to them killing others, as in the Parkland case. In the latter case, the shooter was already known--even to the FBI. That's also the case in the Omar Mateen shooting of LGBTQ people. Ironically, Mateen's father was a paid FBI informant. Once again, they did nothing.

Them having access to guns was a very important factor that you conveniently omit. This is TRUMP's fault. Obama isn't President.

You brought up non-whites.

No. Some racist did and I responded to their idiotic assertion.

So if open borders is something you champion in the United States, why would you use the language of border enforcement and enfranchisement in Thailand?

I have never argued that. Stop making up bullshit to support your non-existent argument.

Gun control doesn't stop mass shootings.

Yes, it has. There is extensive evidence to support this. See AUSTRALIA. See every other civilized country in the world, that is NOT the USA.

As for racism, you people always seem to bring up how black people end up on the wrong side of the law. What are you going to do with blacks who violate gun control laws? I've pointed examples multiple times where a young black man is charged with a felony for a victimless crime, usually possession of a gun while doing something stupid. You people will be claiming "racism" once your gun control measures are enforced.

Another lie. I never brought that up. Quote me or STFU!

Maybe to prevent mass shootings, we just need to prevent masses. Gun control is a stupid fucking idea too.

It's only stupid to those who are stupid, but gun control is effective, and works. Facts dispute your argument to this end, but don't let facts get in the way of your feelings! You've never done it before!

Killing people with knives happens. Mass killing with knives (or swords) happens too.

Yes, but they are not as effective at killing a great many people, as a rapid fire magazine fed gun is. Your argument is silly. I can kill you with a hammer, but were you to try to kill a great many people with a hammer, you would see how ineffective it actually is. Also, you can defend against a person with a knife.

If they had hijacked 767's, thousands would die. In Nice, 86 people died from a truck attack. There were 7 attackers in the Bataclan attack with 130 deaths. Trucks can be significantly more dangerous. The Las Vegas shooting had 58 deaths and one shooter. So I think you are overstating things. If defendants had guns, the shootings would have had fewer casualties.

Strawman argument. You have nothing. Give it up already. You'd argue pillows kill more people if you could make your guns look better. It doesn't change the reality that guns are the most effective weapons for killing a large number of people, and some Americans are too stupidly attached to their guns to argue the point with any intelligence.

[Hong Wu]

http://archive.is/HHY7S

According to the Washington Post, only 10% of the participants in March for Our Lives were under the age of 18.

Contrary to what’s been reported in many media accounts, the D.C. March for Our Lives crowd was not primarily made up of teenagers. Only about 10 percent of the participants were under 18. The average age of the adults in the crowd was just under 49 years old, which is older than participants at the other marches I’ve surveyed but similar to the age of the average participant at the Million Moms March in 2000, which was also about gun control.

Related, re: no one wants to ban guns.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/surv ... n-all-guns

Survey: Majority of Democrats want to ban semi-automatics, half want to ban all guns

[One Degree]

:lol: I am extremely sorry, but things are not only rewards or punishments, just as the world is not just black and white.

If I deny you the ability to purchase a nuclear weapon, it's not a punishment. Your argument is terribly childish and completely absurd.

I mean, really, if I deny my child the use of a firearm at age 7, is it a punishment, or am I just being a good goddamned parent? He wants it. Am I obligated to get it for him or it's considered punishment? You have to make reasonable arguments, and not just simply complain that if it's not good it's bad. There are degrees in everything.

You seem to be convinced that a punishment that produces an overall societal benefit is not a punishment. Isn’t the purpose of punishment normally to produce an overall benefit? You are playing with semantics to condone self righteousness. If you deprive people of something, it is a punishment. The overall benefit or damage is separate and does not magically make ‘punishment’ ‘not punishment’. We make these decisions to punish. There is no reason to pretend it is not a punishment. Don’t cloud reality.

[Crantag]

Chinese authorities say two WOMEN were part of knife-wielding terror gang which left at least 33 dead and 143 wounded after attacking a train station in China

This was 10 people with knives in a coordinated attack, not one person with a knife.

So they killed on average 3.3 persons a piece. However, one person acting alone would have been unlikely to cause as much relative damage.

Now imagine 10 people with auto-firing weapons in a crowded place, like a train station or a country music concert.

[One Degree]

This was 10 people with knives in a coordinated attack, not one person with a knife.

So they killed on average 3.3 persons a piece. However, one person acting alone would have been unlikely to cause as much relative damage.

Now imagine 10 people with auto-firing weapons in a crowded place, like a train station or a country music concert.

Your logic is no better. It is more common for group behavior to result in crime and death. The prevalence of gangs and comparing their murder rates to mass killers shows which is more deadly to society. Your scenario of 10 mass shooters defies everything we know about them being ‘lone wolves’.

[Crantag]

Your logic is no better. It is more common for group behavior to result in crime and death. The prevalence of gangs and comparing their murder rates to mass killers shows which is more deadly to society. Your scenario of 10 mass shooters defies everything we know about them being ‘lone wolves’.

You seem to be mathematically challenged or something, like Blackjack is apparently.

My logic is perfectly fine. Blackjack compared 10 people who engaged in a terrorist attack to a lone shooter. I just pointed out that there were actually 10 of them, so they killed 3.3 a piece, and that if it had been one lone knife man, it is doubtful that they would have even done that much.

Maybe try reading harder next time.

[One Degree]

You seem to be mathematically challenged or something, like Blackjack is apparently.

My logic is perfectly fine. Blackjack compared 10 people who engaged in a terrorist attack to a lone shooter. I jjust pointed out that there were actually 10 of them, so they killed 3.3 a piece, and that if it had been one lone knife man, it is doubtful that they would have even done that much.

Maybe try reading harder next time.

Repeating it does not make it any more logical. Why outrage over the rare occurrence, though apparently increasing, of white mass shooters killing white children, but no comment on the daily death toll of black children? Every day they die from a variety of weapons including guns. Guns are not the problem. Human behavior is. Actually, YOUNG human behavior. Give a mixed race of the elderly automatic weapons and nothing will happen. Our focus should be on ‘why’ not on what weapons are used. It is liberal policies that prevent detection and permanent incarceration of those likely to become violent adults. You can’t condone and condemn the same behavior based upon age. I understand this liberal view because we are simply unsure of our ability to diagnose correctly. This does not mean we should blame inanimate objects for our ignorance.
One of the major flaws of placing individual rights above community rights is an increasing feeling of alienation by many individuals. This is where our focus should be imo.
What can we do about all the children our society is damaging? We just ignore this because all our attempts have failed. It is easier to blame guns than it is to admit to our total inability to deal with this as a society.
These corrupted individuals come from overly strict conservatives, free life style liberals, and just ignorant uncaring parents.
Banning guns is just a way of sweeping the real problem under the rug.
We have removed everything that gives individuals a sense of belonging. We have told schools and neighbors they can not tell our children how to behave. These are the very things that convince an individual he is a part of something larger than himself. Even the anti bullying campaign can be more effective than banning guns in eliminating the death toll.

[Crantag]

Repeating it does not make it any more logical. Why outrage over the rare occurrence, though apparently increasing, of white mass shooters killing white children, but no comment on the daily death toll of black children? Every day they die from a variety of weapons including guns. Guns are not the problem. Human behavior is. Actually, YOUNG human behavior. Give a mixed race of the elderly automatic weapons and nothing will happen. Our focus should be on ‘why’ not on what weapons are used. It is liberal policies that prevent detection and permanent incarceration of those likely to become violent adults. You can’t condone and condemn the same behavior based upon age. I understand this liberal view because we are simply unsure of our ability to diagnose correctly. This does not mean we should blame inanimate objects for our ignorance.
One of the major flaws of placing individual rights above community rights is an increasing feeling of alienation by many individuals. This is where our focus should be imo.
What can we do about all the children our society is damaging? We just ignore this because all our attempts have failed. It is easier to blame guns than it is to admit to our total inability to deal with this as a society.
These corrupted individuals come from overly strict conservatives, free life style liberals, and just ignorant uncaring parents.
Banning guns is just a way of sweeping the real problem under the rug.
We have removed everything that gives individuals a sense of belonging. We have told schools and neighbors they can not tell our children how to behave. These are the very things that convince an individual he is a part of something larger than himself. Even the anti bullying campaign can be more effective than banning guns in eliminating the death toll.

Actually I was addressing something specific, namely the false application of an instance of a coordinated knife attack by 10. You are just a pawn of gun manufacturers. You are advocating in favor of their profit rates. That's what it really boils down to.

[One Degree]

Actually I was addressing something specific, namely the false application of an instance of a coordinated knife attack by 10. You are just a pawn of gun manufacturers. You are advocating in favor of their profit rates. That's what it really boils down to.

Nah, I have very little interest in monetary welfare of companies. I will voluntarily give up my guns when we create a society where I don’t feel I might need one. Create a society where I have no fear of someone more powerful or more numerous violently confronting me. Guns are called the “great equalizer “ because they are. They make us all equal despite our genetics, training, moral philosophy, etc. Nothing else gives us the security of equal footing and that is why they should never be banned. Their banning makes me a victim in my mind and I see no reason to volunteer to be a victim. Calling the police is not an option when faced with an armed intruder. Along with your math, would you feel safer defending your family with a knife or an automatic weapon?

[blackjack21]

This was 10 people with knives in a coordinated attack, not one person with a knife.

So they killed on average 3.3 persons a piece. However, one person acting alone would have been unlikely to cause as much relative damage.

So rent a truck! One person killed 80. Hijacking a plane caused three planes caused thousands of deaths. It's illegal to run people over with a truck. It's illegal to hijack an airliner and fly it in to a building. Why is it that people on the left are so convinced rules are the answer to everything?

Now imagine 10 people with auto-firing weapons in a crowded place, like a train station or a country music concert.

Bataclan. Easy enough. Now imagine the people in the crowd having their own guns to shoot back.

The prevalence of gangs and comparing their murder rates to mass killers shows which is more deadly to society.

That's my point. The enforcement of any gun control law that involves any crime and possession of a firearms falls disproportionately--and I don't mean by a small margin--on black people. The very same people calling for gun control will than run around saying, "law enforcement is racist. Explain to me why black people and white people own firearms in similar quantities but white people get arrested only 1/10th as often" to which we will have to reply, "because white people don't go to the liquor store, put a gun in the cashier's face, and say 'stick em up motherfucker!'", for which we will once again be called racists.

Blackjack compared 10 people who engaged in a terrorist attack to a lone shooter.

Until firearms, war was conducted with swords, knives, bow and arrow, etc. War didn't start before guns, and neither did violent crime. Most of these crimes can be identified and stopped before they happen, but people like you don't want to deal with mental illness--possibly because it may affect people with your political disposition more than conservatives.

Why outrage over the rare occurrence, though apparently increasing, of white mass shooters killing white children, but no comment on the daily death toll of black children?

Because black people are not a political majority in the United States. They are counting on you being racist to try to push their agenda. That's why they were mad at people like me who thought running Ray Rice out of the NFL or charging Adrian Peterson with a felony was outrageous conduct. I remember Bill O'Reilly saying that Richie Incognito (a white NFL player who used racial epithets) was finished in the NFL. Well, Richie Incognito is still playing football and Bill O'Reilly is gone--illustrating that siding with the left once in awhile gets you nowhere.

Banning guns is just a way of sweeping the real problem under the rug.

Banning guns is a way of seizing power and defying the electorate. Something Congress has been doing with gun ownership. They are just scared now because Trump is president.

You are just a pawn of gun manufacturers.

When gun owners and prospective gun owners listen to people like you and Godstud, that's when they start making gun ownership a priority. Gun purchases go up during these phony outrages. Why shouldn't we believe that you are working for the arms industry?

[Crantag]

Nah, I have very little interest in monetary welfare of companies. I will voluntarily give up my guns when we create a society where I don’t feel I might need one. Create a society where I have no fear of someone more powerful or more numerous violently confronting me. Guns are called the “great equalizer “ because they are. They make us all equal despite our genetics, training, moral philosophy, etc. Nothing else gives us the security of equal footing and that is why they should never be banned. Their banning makes me a victim in my mind and I see no reason to volunteer to be a victim. Calling the police is not an option when faced with an armed intruder. Along with your math, would you feel safer defending your family with a knife or an automatic weapon?

I live in China. Before that I lived in the US for a couple years, and before that I lived in Japan. I am from the US.

Yeah, I feel safer in Japan and China, where wack jobs with guns aren't around.

[Crantag]

Until firearms, war was conducted with swords, knives, bow and arrow, etc. War didn't start before guns, and neither did violent crime. Most of these crimes can be identified and stopped before they happen, but people like you don't want to deal with mental illness--possibly because it may affect people with your political disposition more than conservatives.

And most ancient battles had nowhere near the casualties of modern wars, with modern weapons. Sure there was the occasional exception like Alexander's slaughter of Persians and Ceaser's slaughter of Gauls.

If you read about battles in Ancient Greece, a major historic battle might see a couple hundred people killed.

Industrialization also brought to the fore killing on an industrial scale.

[Godstud]

Hijacking a plane caused three planes caused thousands of deaths.

Something that happened because all previous hijackers were not trying to crash planes, so pilots had been told to cooperate with them. it was terrorists taking advantage of a policy. They amended this problem by making it hard to get into the cockpits. They took measure to make sure it never happened, or could happen again. What have people done about school shootings with rapid fire weapons? Nothing.

Why is it that people on the left are so convinced rules are the answer to everything?

Because they DO work, and ARE effective.

50-state study: More gun laws, fewer deaths
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/50-state-s ... er-deaths/

Now imagine the people in the crowd having their own guns to shoot back.

People in Vegas had guns to shoot back. Nevada is Open Carry. Why did that still happen? Do you know why? It's because good people with a gun are often not motivated to stop a bad guy with a gun. They are worried about running away because they are not highly trained SWAT team members, or Delta Force operatives.

The enforcement of any gun control law that involves any crime and possession of a firearms falls disproportionately--and I don't mean by a small margin--on black people. The very same people calling for gun control will than run around saying, "law enforcement is racist. Explain to me why black people and white people own firearms in similar quantities but white people get arrested only 1/10th as often" to which we will have to reply, "because white people don't go to the liquor store, put a gun in the cashier's face, and say 'stick em up motherfucker!'", for which we will once again be called racists.

This is about the guns, not the colour of the skin of the person using them. Your argument is bullshit. You are arguing your "feelings" because you think someone might call you a racist when you say stupid racist things.

Until firearms, war was conducted with swords, knives, bow and arrow, etc. War didn't start before guns, and neither did violent crime.

Irrelevant. Do you have an actual argument, or are you just grasping at straws?

Why shouldn't we believe that you are working for the arms industry?

Because you aren't a complete moron??

Along with your math, would you feel safer defending your family with a knife or an automatic weapon?

It's a stupid argument, as the odds of a home invasion putting your family in danger is extremely unlikely. My family would be at more danger due to the gun in the house, and this is supported by facts.

Study: Guns in home increase suicide, homicide risk
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-guns ... cide-risk/

[One Degree]

I live in China. Before that I lived in the US for a couple years, and before that I lived in Japan. I am from the US.

Yeah, I feel safer in Japan and China, where wack jobs with guns aren't around.

It is racist today to say so, but the comparison of China and Japan to the US is comparing comparatively homogeneous communities to multi cultural communities. Homogeneous communities are safer. By homogeneous, I mean more the acceptance of community standards over the individual than ethnic diversity though there is currently an accidental overlap of the two. We, in the US, are blinded by the racial makeup and don’t see it is the abandonment of community standards that is the problem. The more we discuss racial differences, the more we destroy community standards. I don’t know why we can’t just say “these are the standards” and exceptions are not made by race, etc. Changing behavior requires EVERYONE knowing what is expected. Though I am not a traveler, I expect people in China and Japan have few doubts of what is acceptable behavior compared to people in the US.

@Godstud Are you suggesting home invasions are rarer than school shootings?

[Finfinder]

I meant to write semi automatic


Fin
Not sure where you're going with this constitional stuff. I presume you know that changing gun laws is the same as passing any bill. It doesn't become an issue for constitionality its until the bill is passed and then challenged in a court.


It blows me away that, by law, kids receive a free education. So they're shipped off to schools 4 - 5 days a week, and are at the mercy of wandering murderers.

It is because this whole argument is dishonest. The left in the United States knows that if they are honest about what they really want, a total repeal of the 2nd amendment, it is political suicide.

Is your last sentence for the dramatic effects? If not please provide some facts to back it up. ( you wont be able )

You know little about constitutional rights, as well, @Finfinder. These rights can be changed. That's what AMENDMENTS are.

Automatic weapon? really? Are you just playing dumb?

Since you appear to be playing dumb: An automatic firearm continuously fires rounds as long as the trigger is pressed or held and there is ammunition in the magazine/chamber. In contrast, a semi-automatic firearm fires one round with each individual trigger-pull.

I am sure Stormsmith was including semi-automatic weapons in this. Do you want to cherry pick and argue semantics some more?

If anything, the people arguing and upset that the youths of America marched against guns, are the ones who are a national embarrassment to the USA.

You think repealing the 2nd amendment is easy.

you told me about the constitution

[One Degree]

@Godstud
Come on, you know organizing the youth is a sure sign of revolution historically. Pretending they are acting on their own motivation is too bizarre except for the totally historical ignorant to believe. You only organize the youth and displaced when you want to destroy the current system. It is laughable liberals try to pass their support on these groups as a benign Democratic process.

Edit: How many leaders wanting to free the youth and disenfranchised from autocrats end up wanting to be ‘ruler for life’. The Democrats are no different. They use these groups to achieve personal power.

[blackjack21]

it was terrorists taking advantage of a policy.

It's a good thing you folks on the left are so super smart and sneaky. No terrorist will ever take advantage of gun control policy, like in France, right?

This is about the guns, not the colour of the skin of the person using them.

Blacks are ten times more likely to be tried and convicted of such crimes. People like me are likely convinced you aren't even particularly serious about gun control, because once it falls so disproportionately on black people, you will start feeling guilty and calling cops, prosecutors and judges "racist."

My family would be at more danger due to the gun in the house, and this is supported by facts.

If they are suicidal, perhaps.

[Godstud]

Come on, you know organizing the youth is a sure sign of revolution historically.

is it a revolution? You sure are being melodramatic about a march.

What is truly laughable is when right wing idiots try to make peaceful protest into such a bad thing. is this protest hurting your feelings??

The cause that these people are marching for, is just, even if so many morons cannot see that because their guns are just an extension of their tiny dicks.

It is laughable liberals try to pass their support on these groups as a benign Democratic process.

Since when is peaceful protest such a threat to you? How cowardly do you have to be to see kids marching as a threat?

You think repealing the 2nd amendment is easy.

No, and I never said that. One day it will be repealed, because soft-headed gun-fucking conservatives will be in the minority, as they grow old and die.