Lauren Southern: Borderless. - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15009390
SolarCross wrote:This is another documentary you didn't even watch but nonetheless still feel entitled to comment on.


If you feel she has made some osrt of intelligent claim or argument, please present it.
#15009392
Wouldn't it be appropriate to watch the video if you want to see if she made an "intelligent claim" or an argument?

I've only watched part of it myself though because I feel as if a lot of this stuff is "preaching to the choir" for me and so I'm in no rush to get through it. The beginning details the inner workings of the journey out of Turkey though, which is interesting because it covers how Turkish villagers along the coasts have had their lives changed by the constant flow of migrants and human traffickers. A lot of them seem to presume that Lauren Southern and friends are with the police of some type because they are white which is funny and if their claims are true, may have gotten them out of a pickle once or twice as the region became dangerous over time. The traffickers can function with some impunity due to their numbers and money, this causes the local women no longer go out alone etc.
#15009395
Hong Wu wrote:Wouldn't it be appropriate to watch the video if you want to see if she made an "intelligent claim" or an argument?


Feel free.

You guys are the one who support her claims.

Since you are the ones arguing her position, it is up to you to find out what her claim is and what her evidence is and then present it.

Unless you need me to do your thinking for you?

I've only watched part of it myself though because I feel as if a lot of this stuff is "preaching to the choir" for me and so I'm in no rush to get through it. The beginning details the inner workings of the journey out of Turkey though, which is interesting because it covers how Turkish villagers along the coasts have had their lives changed by the constant flow of migrants and human traffickers. A lot of them seem to presume that Lauren Southern and friends are with the police of some type because they are white which is funny and if their claims are true, may have gotten them out of a pickle once or twice as the region became dangerous over time. The traffickers can function with some impunity due to their numbers and money, this causes the local women no longer go out alone etc.


Is this supposed to be an argument?
#15009396
Pants-of-dog wrote:Feel free.

You guys are the one who support her claims.

Since you are the ones arguing her position, it is up to you to find out what her claim is and what her evidence is and then present it.

Unless you need me to do your thinking for you?



Is this supposed to be an argument?

No, it was me telling you what is in the film because you were asking if it makes a claim and yet refuse to watch it and find out for yourself and this is still not good enough for you even though it's exactly what you were asking for.
#15009461
Rancid wrote:This got me thinking though.

My reluctance to be a civic nationalist myself has always been due to the fact that I think civic nationalism is a marginally stable ideology. Marginal stability is a control theory term (I'm an electrical engineer after all). Basically, a marginally stable system is one which is stable, but the slightest disturbance or change in the conditions that allow the stability quickly turn the system unstable. An easy example of this is resting a ball at the very top of a hill. The ball is at rest on the top of the hill (i.e. stable), but the slightest breeze will send the ball rolling off the hill (unstable). Where as if the ball was at the bottom of a valley, if a breeze were to push the ball, the slope of the valley would push the ball back down towards the bottom of the valley. This type of stability is better, there's a technical engineering term for it which I can't remember. I'm not a controls engineer....

I think civic nationalism is a lot like the ball on the top of the hill. Basically, it can start off guided by genuinely good/just/moral ideals that are non-racist. However, it can easily be high jack and corrupted to be more like non-civic nationalism. Ultimately, civic nationalism also requires discrimination of some type. Maybe it's not race based, but it could promote discrimination based on something else that could potentially be horrible.

In short, I don't think it works in the long term.

I really do like massive integration of the global economy and technology. It forces us all to play nice with each other.



1. This is a terrible argument against civic nationalism as it is solely based on a "perceived" potential for a slippery slope into a position you would critique for its meany racism.

2. The reason most of the recent populist movements have garnered great success in the west as of late is due precisely to the fact that people "don't want to place nice with each other and don't want to be forced to do so either."

I have no problem with open borders and free trade.........BUT it should be voluntary and consensual down to the individual level and that is definitely NOT what the globalists have been pushing; they ain't ancaps after all; they are multi-national corporations acting in concert with certain western states to create a system where both they (the corporations) and their political partners (certain western states/parties/etc) can benefit.

You can have free trade and open borders without globalism. People should be able to play nice if they want to and be left alone if they'd rather not.

You wouldn't need nationalist movements of any stripe if people were re-enfranchised with their absolute and God-ordained rights of property, life, and liberty.
#15039564
There will be people smuggling and mass immigration from the global south into the north until the latter starts to invest in the MENA region and pursue their interests there in a way that is mutually beneficial to all parties.

The Arab Spring was a disaster both for Europe and the Arab world. The West needs to start engaging with these governments on a more equal basis and stop trying to change their regimes. In many ways those who are today called enemies of Western interests could actually be the best partners tomorrow.

Gamal Abdel Nasser never hated America. Right until the end he tried to improve relations with the US and it is more than likely that he preferred America over the Soviet Union. But for some reason the Americans, British and French did not want to support him or his cause.

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