Does China exploit WWII cynically? - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues in the People's Republic of China.

Moderator: PoFo Asia & Australasia Mods

Forum rules: No one-line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum moderated in English, so please post in English only. Thank you.
#14539757
Dagoth Ur wrote:The British, famous for their Irish and Indian famines, also participated in that definition.
But they weren't the ones that wanted to exclude political mass murder from the definition, so how is that relevant?
Dagoth Ur wrote:FROLLEIN uses RUN

*can't escape*

Yeah because you couldn't justify the label of genocide then and you cannot now. It is your own fault for bringing it back up.
Really? Since when is PoFo the place to genuinely try to learn something new and perhaps amend or enlarge your worldview? Everyone is shouting their ideology from their pulpit and fuck the opposition. How are you measuring who's won? I still stand by my view that the definition isn't worth the paper it's written on, since it was tailored to suit the interests of the Soviet Union and I give a damn if some internet commie disagrees with me.
#14540092
Rei Murasame wrote:I didn't have to reach far to seize on it, given that you guys put the ethnicity card into play, and furthermore it's a discussion about a war that had an ethnic dimension.

I can understand Ben's position because for him it would be logical that if he was with the Chinese warlords or the Chinese communists, then he'd not be happy about the Kwantung Army (which was staffed by both Japanese and Koreans by the way) [1]prancing around killing anyone who looked like a Chinese insurgent and alternately [2]killing anything that appeared to be Russian or Russian-sympathising.


Rei, you are aware that as we've discussed before there was a huge community of Anti-Bolshevik Russians living in Harbin, Manchuria and several units of Russian troops who bravely fought in the Kwantung army?

I know that this messes with your overall narrative, but there were close links between White Russian groups, the 'Black Dragon Society', and NSDAP Germany before and during WWII. Russians died as comrades in the thousands alongside the Germans and Japanese to fight the common enemy, and you dishonour the memory of all of the above who worked together to try to destroy the Red Beast.

Imperial Japan got suckered into war with Czarist Russia, and Russia against Japan, and you know it.
#14540115
I find myself strangely okay with Rei's position. Her position on WWII is on my opposite side, but I can understand it. What I would want is for Japan to be repentent on mass murdering citizens, if not the war. But I guess we have been pushing it long enough to know it is pointless.
#14540121
I understand Rei's position, and even more, Imperial Japan's. But, I am not by any means an advocate of how the ideal and theory of Japan's geopolitical position was carried out.
#14540135
benpenguin wrote:I find myself strangely okay with Rei's position. Her position on WWII is on my opposite side, but I can understand it. What I would want is for Japan to be repentent on mass murdering citizens, if not the war. But I guess we have been pushing it long enough to know it is pointless.


This Rei person obviously does not speak on behalf of all Japanese people. TONS of Japanese people feel extreme regret about WWII and the role their country played. There actually ARE liberal and even leftist Japanese people you know.

I, for one, frankly *don't* understand Rei's "position" especially with regards to just blanket hate of all things Russia. In fact, I find it quite offensive and racist, being myself half Russian. But meh.
#14540141
UnusuallyUsual wrote:This Rei person obviously does not speak on behalf of all Japanese people. TONS of Japanese people feel extreme regret about WWII and the role their country played. There actually ARE liberal and even leftist Japanese people you know.

Like every country there are different positions. As far as I know among the politicalitically active, Japan is a lot skewed to the right. I had some experience on pofo with another fine far-far-right gentleman Akuma to appreciate Rei's insight. Turns out there are a number of things we can agree on.

I, for one, frankly *don't* understand Rei's "position" especially with regards to just blanket hate of all things Russia. In fact, I find it quite offensive and racist, being myself half Russian. But meh.

For that...actually none of us do.
#14540189
annatar1914 wrote:Rei, you are aware that as we've discussed before there was a huge community of Anti-Bolshevik Russians living in Harbin, Manchuria and several units of Russian troops who bravely fought in the Kwantung army?

Yes, but I'll say the same thing that I said before. If desperate right-wing Russians wanted to collaborate with Axis to literally destroy Russia, it should be obvious that Russia is not going to exist afterwards, so that would not be inconvenient to my narrative, it'd be inconvenient to yours.

Hideki Tojo's plan was to meet Adolf Hitler in Moscow after the USSR was defeated, and undo the dams so that the entire of Moscow would become a giant lake. That was actually the plan.

______

UnusuallyUsual wrote:This Rei person obviously does not speak on behalf of all Japanese people.

Indeed, I cannot speak on behalf of leftist traitors, for example.

UnusuallyUsual wrote:I, for one, frankly *don't* understand Rei's "position" especially with regards to just blanket hate of all things Russia.

Well, given that you are Russian, I don't expect that you'd be able to understand it, since your perspective would be Russian.

______

benpenguin wrote:For that...actually none of us do.

You have to have a certain mentality to get it. Either you do, or you don't. For people who don't get it, there's basically nothing that I can tell you that will make you see it, since in my experience that's just how it is with people. Either you look at the history of Russia and decide that Russia needs to be destroyed, or you don't. A lot of issues are like that, where if you don't get it, it just means that you don't get it.

I don't necessarily need you to get it. It makes things easier if you accept it as a kind of 'black box', because then I don't have to write so much. It simply is what it is, and I shouldn't need to bother justifying it any further than I have. I can present you with the geostrategic interests, and so on, so that you can see the logic behind it, and I do that all the time. I cannot make you think like I do, though.
#14540472
benpenguin wrote:I don't necessarily need you to get it. It makes things easier if you accept it as a kind of 'black box', because then I don't have to write so much. It simply is what it is, and I shouldn't need to bother justifying it any further than I have. I can present you with the geostrategic interests, and so on, so that you can see the logic behind it, and I do that all the time. I cannot make you think like I do, though.

Yeah that's what I think as well. I read through a lot of what you wrote, but I still don't understand why I should hate Russia more than other countries...Besides that “associate with the distant countries and attack the near ones” teaching - which doesn't make much sense in the modern era.

Anyway, off to the black box with it.
#14540500
Rei, you replied;



Rei Murasame wrote:Yes, but I'll say the same thing that I said before. If desperate right-wing Russians wanted to collaborate with Axis to literally destroy Russia, it should be obvious that Russia is not going to exist afterwards, so that would not be inconvenient to my narrative, it'd be inconvenient to yours.

Hideki Tojo's plan was to meet Adolf Hitler in Moscow after the USSR was defeated, and undo the dams so that the entire of Moscow would become a giant lake. That was actually the plan.


1. Those anti-communist Russians fought with the Japanese and Germans, and anybody else, to liberate Russia, not destroy her.

2. Never heard of that plan for Moscow; could you do me the honor of providing a source for that? Spasibo.

3. As for close German and Anti-Bolshevik ties from 1917-1945, read this relatively impartial scholarly work;

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/soc/groups/scr/kellogg.pdf
Last edited by annatar1914 on 26 Mar 2015 03:43, edited 1 time in total.
#14540503
It really is staggering that China should get on its high horse towards Japan or anyone else for that matter. The Han have been amongst the very top imperialist, murdering, ethnic cleansing, terrorists that humanity has ever produced. The terrible crimes that the Han have committed against Caucasian people have not been forgotten.

Muslims and the Han are the great tyrants of the twenty first century.
#14540515
annatar1914 wrote: Those anti-communist Russians fought with the Japanese and Germans, and anybody else, to liberate Russia, not destroy her.


Yes by killing millions of Russians for being ummmmm Russians.

Don't worry about Rich, Ben, his grasp of history is legendary and is as good as Qing forces during opium wars.

lol @ Han committing crimes against Caucasians.
#14540519
fuser wrote:
Yes by killing millions of Russians for being ummmmm Russians.



Fuser, you know as well as I do that the forces like the ROA of General Vlasov didn't fight to kill 'millions of Russians', but to free the Russian Nation. The fact that they were impeded at every turn by the Germans is one of the perplexities of the history of WWII.
#14540521
Annatar1914 wrote:Fuser, you know as well as I do that the forces like the ROA of General Vlasov didn't fight to kill 'millions of Russians', but to free the Russian Nation. The fact that they were impeded at every turn by the Germans is one of the perplexities of the history of WWII.


No, I don't. lol Vlassov was nothing but a spineless traitor while in Red Army he was fighting Germans but the moment he was captured his loyalty changed instantly to save his skin nothing more.

Also what the fuck he imagined when working for the Germans who were there to exterminate everyone between Warsaw and Urals, to be not impeded?

He perfectly knew what was in the store and still went along just to save his precious skin but obviously he failed and was hanged like a spineless traitor he was.

Oh and also note that the only combat he saw while being a German lapdog was to defend Germany like a good Nazi lapdog he was.
#14540523
fuser wrote:
No, I don't. lol Vlassov was nothing but a spineless traitor while in Red Army he was fighting Germans but the moment he was captured his loyalty changed instantly to save his skin nothing more.

Also what the fuck he imagined when working for the Germans who were there to exterminate everyone between Warsaw and Urals, to be not impeded?

He perfectly knew what was in the store and still went along just to save his precious skin but obviously he failed and was hanged like a spineless traitor he was.

Oh and also note that the only combat he saw while being a German lapdog was to defend Germany like a good Nazi lapdog he was.


Lies, all lies. But fairly typical of the Leftist crowd.
#14540525


You just refuted everything I said, Annatar. Here let me refute that Earth revolves around Sun. "Lies all lies". There, done.

The fucking ridiculousness of people claiming that persons who worked for a group which was exterminating an entire population was actually for liberating that population.

I mean stupid shits are being said on the PoFo all the time but there has to be a limit.

Tell us more about the wonderful things Nazi Germany had planned for Russia like cable TV and Internet porn.
Last edited by fuser on 26 Mar 2015 02:58, edited 1 time in total.
#14540526
fuser wrote::lol:

You just refuted everything I said, Annatar. Here let me refute that Earth revolves around Sun. "Lies all lies". There, done.

The fucking ridiculousness of people claiming that persons who worked for a group which was exterminating an entire population was actually for liberating that population.

I mean stupid shits are being said on the PoFo all the time but there has to be a limit.


Read these;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_ ... _of_Russia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Manifesto

Does that sound like a group planning on collaborating with the extermination of their own people?
Last edited by annatar1914 on 26 Mar 2015 03:02, edited 1 time in total.
#14540527
Yes.

Because that is what they were literally doing and supporting. You know people play more heeds to actions than words sponsored by their Nazi masters or do you think North Korea is a democracy and republic?

Propagandist buzzwords don't matter, what matters is what they were doing on ground and which was supporting the cause of their Nazi master and that cause was extermination.

Also so you think Hiwis killing Russians for not wanting to be exterminated by Nazis was liberating them?

Did Carl just use a slur for comedic effect on ran[…]

I honestly have not experienced any of these thing[…]

Election 2020

It doesn't really matter what we think. It only m[…]

Trump's Dumb Economics

It looks like China's leader is playing Chinese c[…]