Mongolians Protest China's Plan to Replace Monglian with Mandarin at Schools - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues in the People's Republic of China.

Moderator: PoFo Asia & Australasia Mods

Forum rules: No one-line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum moderated in English, so please post in English only. Thank you.
#15117887
Rugoz wrote:Is it what you need to establish a modern nation state?

I'm imagining trying to force the French-speaking Swiss to have their classes in history and math in German. It's such an absurd thought to be honest. It would be unthinkable to even propose it.


There was a considerable period of linguistic consolidation in Europe. It's why there's only one principal type of German or Italian, not hundreds of regional variations. It's why Italians don't speak Occitanian.

It's only in the last few decades that any schools in Europe have returned to teaching in minority languages - be it Basque, Welsh, Irish, etc. Well after the period of national identity development that took place following the collapse of the monarchial system in the 1800s.

Should the PRC do the same? Well, The PRC is incredibly anti pluralist, sure, because it fears that foreign powers will use that pluralism to create and magnify ethnic and social divisions in attempt to bring down the state - we see evidence of this being down with organizations such as the WUC or the Tibetan Exile Movement, which receive extensive funding from the CIA and other sources of foreign intelligence. They want to create a cohesive and united society not vulnerable to the "divide and conquer" strategy that led to the Century of Humiliation and the Japanese invasion. They're a traumatized nation with a government subject to some sort of historical PTSD, using proven if draconian Western techniques to build a modern nation state out of the remnants of the last surviving civilization state.
#15117890
Fasces wrote:Well, The PRC ... fears that foreign powers will use that pluralism to create and magnify ethnic and social divisions in attempt to bring down the state ... They want to create a cohesive and united society not vulnerable to the "divide and conquer" strategy that led to the Century of Humiliation and the Japanese invasion.


What the CCP has done effectively made some people think the "Century of Humiliation and the Japanese invasion" not as bad as they should be, and made them genuinely question whether having a unified state brings a "surplus".
#15117894
I don't think the Chinese give a single damn what a bunch of Westerners think of them - their goal is the advancement of the Chinese people, and they understand full well that the combative mindset demonstrated here that ultimately, in their eyes, justifies them to act in this way.

Their view is that the US led world order doesn't actually care about 'right or wrong', but power. No matter how China acts, or doesn't act, it'll be treated based on its relative economic and military strength. Now that China is arguably a superpower and rising fast, they will be the victim of Western aggression in their political elite's attempt to preserve nearly 5 centuries of global dominance. See the treatment of Japan in the 80s, for example. The CCP has determined that they'll never be friends of the Western world order, and shouldn't bother to try. As a result, playing nice and doing everything how we say it "should be done" is a sucker's game that just makes it easier for the West to defeat China from within and contain the growing explosion of money and influence coming from the country.
#15117903
Fasces wrote:I don't think the Chinese give a single damn what a bunch of Westerners think of them ...


Actually I am referring to a significant population of their own (e.g. Hongkongers, Taiwanese, as well as those Chinese living in the coastal areas like Guangdong or Shanghai), not the West.
#15117908
Fasces wrote:As someone currently living in one of those coastal cities, I don't think that's the case outside of Taiwan and a segment of Hong Kong. There is no broad or significant separatist sentiment in cities like Shanghai or Guangzhou.


They probably just don't dare to. However, their tendency of movement can also give a hint. For example, why so many people like to flock to Hong Kong even in recent years?

Or may I dare to ask, which city are you living in?
#15117910
Fasces wrote:Or want to. The Chinese government is quite popular, all things considered.

I've lived in Shanghai, Hangzhou, Fuzhou and now Qingdao.


From what I heard, Fujian and Shandong are two quite patriotic provinces.

Also, the previous Hong Kong Chief Executive, CY Leung, was of Shandong descent. Look what he had done.
#15117911
They're all quite patriotic, though Fujian, as the last bastion of the Republic of China on the mainland, has a reputation of being less pro-CCP (and the source of most of the Chinese diaspora outside of China), so I don't know where you got that.

Anyway, if you're expecting the average Chinese to be waiting to be liberated with bated breath, dreaming of the collapse of the CCP and the Chinese state, you're fooling yourself. Especially post-coronavirus - the allure of the "Western way of doing things" took a huge hit.
#15117922
Fasces wrote:There was a considerable period of linguistic consolidation in Europe. It's why there's only one principal type of German or Italian, not hundreds of regional variations. It's why Italians don't speak Occitanian.

It's only in the last few decades that any schools in Europe have returned to teaching in minority languages - be it Basque, Welsh, Irish, etc. Well after the period of national identity development that took place following the collapse of the monarchial system in the 1800s.

Should the PRC do the same? Well, The PRC is incredibly anti pluralist, sure, because it fears that foreign powers will use that pluralism to create and magnify ethnic and social divisions in attempt to bring down the state - we see evidence of this being down with organizations such as the WUC or the Tibetan Exile Movement, which receive extensive funding from the CIA and other sources of foreign intelligence. They want to create a cohesive and united society not vulnerable to the "divide and conquer" strategy that led to the Century of Humiliation and the Japanese invasion. They're a traumatized nation with a government subject to some sort of historical PTSD, using proven if draconian Western techniques to build a modern nation state out of the remnants of the last surviving civilization state.


The supression of local culture creates the breeding ground for separatism. That is why many Western nation states are still plagued by it today. I'm not at all convinced that this is the way to go for China to maintain national unity. It could easily backfire in the future. No doubt though they will find a way to blame foreign powers, as usual.
#15117926
Fasces wrote:They're all quite patriotic, though Fujian, as the last bastion of the Republic of China on the mainland, has a reputation of being less pro-CCP (and the source of most of the Chinese diaspora outside of China), so I don't know where you got that.


A district in Hong Kong, called North Point, is known to have a large Fujian community (called "Gang of Hujian", 福建幫 in Chinese), and they are staunchly pro-CCP.


Fasces wrote:Anyway, if you're expecting the average Chinese to be waiting to be liberated with bated breath, dreaming of the collapse of the CCP and the Chinese state, you're fooling yourself.


I actually see them being complicit now. I agree that applying the 弔民伐罪 (care for the people and prosecute only the guilty) mind set is bullshit.
Russia-Ukraine War 2022

I disagree with this, but I also don't think &quo[…]

The actual argument (that the definition is being[…]

Israel-Palestinian War 2023

There are many ways to approach a construction sit[…]

One potential solution is for us to do everything[…]