Veganism - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Godstud
#14157784
Chimps eat meat. They are omnivores, too, but I get what you're saying. :D
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By Fasces
#14157786
So they do, I stand corrected. I was referring to the fact that calorie-dense cooked meat is what allowed our brains to grow to their current size and complexity, according to most, and create human civilization.
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By Godstud
#14157787
Yes, I understood the gist of what you were saying, and you're correct. We'd be stupid plains animals with no sapience had we never eaten meat. I suppose some people wish they could be just that. ;)
By Boycott_CAFOs
#14158062
Figlio di Moros wrote:1- Don't double post. Aside from being annoying, it's against forum rules.


I must have somehow skipped that. Makes sense. I would consolidate my posts but I can't delete them so... Is there an easy way to multi-quote people? Or do I just have to click the quote button multiple times and copy and paste into WordPad every time?

2- Yes, I eat factory farmed meat. It's not because I prefer it or wish not to, it's because it's cheaper and more convenient. Unfortunately, my access to a half-decent butcher that sells grass-fed is a bit limited at this moment. However, if you have a source that somehow grain-fed cattle are b-12 deficient food stock, I'd be interested in seeing it; it's already known that the much fatter grain-fed cows also have a terrible omega 3:omega-6 ratio.

In all honesty I don't feel like googling that information right now since you can just as easily look into it yourself. I usually only post articles I have bookmarked already. Maybe I'll look into it later but right now I'm very tired and don't give a shit. I just know that 40% of meat eaters test as B12 deficient, which has been speculated to be due to overuse of antibiotics in factory farms.

3- Most meat eaters are that stupid because most people are meat eaters, and most people are rather unintelligent. On the other hand, I'm primal, and we tend to be rather well informed both as a necessity to see through the SAD(Standard American Diet) and to eat healthier- which means we're not quite so ill-informed meat eaters. Of course, the fact most vegans are so ill-informed they continue to eat pasta and "veggie burgers" means your own group really isn't much smarter than the standard American.


Depends on what kind of pasta you're talking about. They sell brown rice (my favorite for taste), quinoa, I think they even have spelt pasta, and whole grain. We could argue about the possible negative effects about each of these but we could talk about many, many more significant negative effects of animal products. Ones that kill people... And what do you mean by "veggie burgers", like burgers made of veggies? Or burgers made with processed soy and wheat? Some veggie burgers are extremely healthy. People don't have to eat healthy to be intelligent. Also, 'informed' doesn't equate to 'intelligent'. But if we're going that route vegans are usually more educated than meat eaters at least when concerning animal welfare issues. Anyway, this is a pretty irrelevant discussion now.

Now, since this is the hobby section, perhaps we can either discuss healthy foods or recipes? I know a few breakfast stuffed tomato recipes, but they either involved ground beef or cheese and have an egg cracked on top. What would be a good vegan alternative, specifically one gluten and soy free?


You could maybe use beans or quinoa instead of beef, or a blend. Then top with a Vegg (haven't tried it, just heard about it), and cover it with Daiya, which I believe is both soy and gluten free.

Not sure how that'd taste but it's what immediately comes to mind. Sounds kind of gross to me, but so does the original honestly.

I just collected a TON of gluten free and vegan recipes, since I happen to have a gluten intolerance. Not all soy free though. I'm soon going to go on the nutritarian diet plan by Dr. Fuhrman, so I've been collecting recipes to make sure I stick to it and don't get bored of the food.

Maybe I'll post some later. Extremely tired right now and am trying to watch a movie so...


Godstud wrote:No, I am just having some fun with this whole thing. I have always found that people brag about how natural Veganism is, while ignoring the reality of it being very unnatural for humans to BE Vegans in the first place.

As many people as there seems to be touting the benefits of a Vegan diet, there seems to be just as many telling about unhealthy it is.


Because natural = good. Right. That's why everyone is pro-rape and pro-murder, and pro-shitting wherever we like.

There are a lot of people who are in denial, obviously. You can find lots of blogs about veganism being unhealthy. You'll find doctors who pretend to know about nutrition saying it can be unhealthy. But when you look at the evidence, no. I encourage you to look into it, because I know the more you look into it, the more you'll see that.

But beware of the USDA, blogs and Weston A. Price is all I'll say to keep you on the right track. Oh, and no nutritionists. Anyone can call themselves a nutritionist.

Fasces wrote:If only we never started eating meat - we could be just like the chimps.


If only we never started eating meat - we would be extinct!

Meat is no longer necessary and not enough importance is placed on glucose - which is found in plants, not meat. It's absolutely essential for our brains to function. Meat would be a source of calories and fats, but we can get much healthier sources of those from plants.
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By Godstud
#14158071
Meat is no longer necessary and not enough importance is placed on glucose - which is found in plants, not meat. It's absolutely essential for our brains to function. Meat would be a source of calories and fats, but we can get much healthier sources of those from plants.
Thankfully most of us have a choice in what we eat and whether it's necessary or not, means nothing. Skiing and swimming are usually not necessary, and we do that. Eating apple pie isn't necessary, and we do that.

Plants do not supply everything.

Vitamin B-12

Vitamin B-12 is necessary, but only present in animal products. If you eat meat, you won't have to worry about getting enough vitamin B-12. You can also get vitamin B-12 if you are a vegetarian who eats dairy or eggs. However, strict vegetarians --- vegans --- can have a deficiency of vitamin B-12 and should supplement with vitamins.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/45132 ... z2JAhLd5aH

Vegan diets are another matter and I can think of plenty of reasons why they are controversial for children. Supplements can take care of kids' needs for vitamin B12 and other nutrients, but calories can be a serious problem. Children sometimes have a hard time when they have to get all their food energy from vegetables, grains, or beans. I advise vegan parents to pay close attention to calories, to make liberal use of olive oil and nut butters, to make sure plenty of beans, grains, and potatoes are available, and to monitor their children's weight in comparison to lines on standard growth charts.

Read more: http://www.thedailygreen.com/healthy-ea ... z2JAi4d4uv
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By Fasces
#14158087
Meat is necessary as an expression of cultural identity. The enjoyment of pork by Spaniards has long served to define them as a people in opposition to their Islamic conquerors, as is the enjoyment of beef a cultural expression of Texan identity in the American southwest. I see absolutely no reason to turn humanity into a bland caricature of itself, feasting on arugula from north to south and east to west. I want to go to Argentina and feast on steak from ranches in the Pampas, to Lebanon to be served a fine lamb cutlet, or Japan to dine on bluefin tuna.

I would no more ban the eating of meat than a national language or religion.
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By Figlio di Moros
#14158792
Boycott_CAFOs wrote:In all honesty I don't feel like googling that information right now since you can just as easily look into it yourself. I usually only post articles I have bookmarked already. Maybe I'll look into it later but right now I'm very tired and don't give a shit. I just know that 40% of meat eaters test as B12 deficient, which has been speculated to be due to overuse of antibiotics in factory farms.


I've never heard that before, and so would like the source when you get the time. Like I said, I try for grass-fed over factory-farmed when I can anyways. If, on top of high omega-6's, there is an issue w/ b-12 as well it'd be a most interesting read.

Depends on what kind of pasta you're talking about. They sell brown rice (my favorite for taste), quinoa, I think they even have spelt pasta, and whole grain. We could argue about the possible negative effects about each of these but we could talk about many, many more significant negative effects of animal products. Ones that kill people...


You admit to being gluten sensitive- certainly you're aware of the general problems of gliadin in the human gut? One compied gy sapsonids in most grains, but usually not as poorly, or phytoestrogens from soy? Then, of course, there's the problems w/ essential fatty acids and amino acids, both of which mean you need to focus on having a diverse array of plants to obtain all. I can't even think of a good vegetable oil aside from olive oil and coconut oil for healthy fats.

Sorry, bit of a rant, but the point there is that meat, milk, and eggs are a much more available source of proteins and fats than grains and legumes, which also contrain anti-nutrients that can make them backfire as a source. I'f say that you also have to forgo honey, tmk, which is a very good low-glycemic sweetener. The point of all this being that you certainly have to pay attention to what you eat in order to get the nutrients you would from animal products. Not that it can't be done, but I'm aware many fall into a trap thinking they're eating healthier and they're still relying on white pastas and other high-glycemic, protein-poor sources.

You could maybe use beans or quinoa instead of beef, or a blend. Then top with a Vegg (haven't tried it, just heard about it), and cover it with Daiya, which I believe is both soy and gluten free. Not sure how that'd taste but it's what immediately comes to mind. Sounds kind of gross to me, but so does the original honestly.


Just looked up daiya- I have no idea what's in it, but apparently uses coconut oil among other things. Not a bad choice- usually ricotta and spinache would work, more so than the quinoa, so daiya and spinache would be a good vegan alternative. Unfortunately, it would still be missing something akin to an egg cracked on top- be hard to get an alternative for that. Oh, and keep in mind to bake the tomatoes approx. 20 mins, already opened and scooped out, before adding the fillings. :tu:

I just collected a TON of gluten free and vegan recipes, since I happen to have a gluten intolerance. Not all soy free though. I'm soon going to go on the nutritarian diet plan by Dr. Fuhrman, so I've been collecting recipes to make sure I stick to it and don't get bored of the food.


Can't wait to see them- probably find myself a few new side dishes.

[quote=]Because natural = good. Right. That's why everyone is pro-rape and pro-murder, and pro-shitting wherever we like.[/quote]

The problem with that assessment is that good here means healthy rather than moral. Unlike pro-rape, and pro-murder, and pro-shitting in public, being pro-natural diet is prompting the best health of a person rather than being a moral question. Not killing eachother over food might not be natural, but it's irrelevent to the question of morality- however, that the source of food is natural, rather than plastic goo, is a perfectly defensible position to uphold.

There are a lot of people who are in denial, obviously. You can find lots of blogs about veganism being unhealthy. You'll find doctors who pretend to know about nutrition saying it can be unhealthy. But when you look at the evidence, no. I encourage you to look into it, because I know the more you look into it, the more you'll see that.

But beware of the USDA, blogs and Weston A. Price is all I'll say to keep you on the right track. Oh, and no nutritionists. Anyone can call themselves a nutritionist.


Don't hate on Weston A. Price foundation- there's a good amount of research there. After all, you're a gluten-free vegan, and I believe you indicated leaving soy as well? In which case, you're not so unfamilar w/ some of the same dietary principles.

Meat is no longer necessary and not enough importance is placed on glucose - which is found in plants, not meat. It's absolutely essential for our brains to function. Meat would be a source of calories and fats, but we can get much healthier sources of those from plants.


Not true, we actually have way too much carbs these days, and many of it too high glycemic. In fact, you really don't need plants- 1) milk has carbs, 2) your Alpha cells produce glucogen, the opposite of insulin, which breaks down your fat cells to increase glucose levels in your blood. Basically, our body's perfectly capable of creating it's own glucose.

Of course, it's disengenious to say glucose is absolute necessary for brain functions- so is protein, and your brain will operate on ketones and lactic acid as well.
By Decky
#14159553
Meat is no longer necessary


So what? Now that we have IVF sex is no longer necessary. Not being necessary is not a reason.

What kind of mind would someone have to have to want to get rid of either. :*( I pity you.
By RhetoricThug
#14159556
Wow, I get how OP was out of line, but the health benefits are nearly endless being vegan.
I am not completely vegan, but my Grandma was tricked by American society into getting diabetes and now has no signs because she switched to an all-natural diet and vegan based eating habits. It truly helps one's body. It is denial if you don't accept that

Also, Meat is only necessary when you are growing up. It helps that development process. You can develop a chemical imbalance if you go vegan before an appropriate age. The point is- If you abuse meats, especially red beef, your health will decline. It is simple.
By Americanroyalty
#14160034
Why do we have nice pointy canines if humans are not supposed to eat meat?
"Why grandmother want big teeth you have" That's cause granny likes to sit down to a nice juicy T-bone every now and then.
Plus I know vegans are against factory farming (like my aunt), but how about meat you have shot and killed yourself? I think that should be ok.
Because natural = good. Right. That's why everyone is pro-rape and pro-murder, and pro-shitting wherever we like.

I'm pro-shitting wherever we like. I.e. I'd like to lay a big steamer on steps of the U.S. capitol building, so I could watch all the congressional hacks have to step over it.
By RhetoricThug
#14160048
I'd like to lay a big steamer on steps of the U.S. capitol building

We need to lobby for pro-shitting laws. Think of all the waste management jobs we could create

but how about meat you have shot and killed yourself? I think that should be ok.

Venison stew man. Hot damn, too good.

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By Kon
#14160835
I love how most food vegans I know seem to love is imported from mexico, or some ancient grain that can only be grown in the highlands of peru or mexico effectively, with a side of imported coconut oil and sprouted thai brown rice please.

Vegans probably ravage the environment more than sensible omnivores ever will.

If you knew anything about political dietary trends you would hop on the locavore train anyways brah. Woop woop *pulls horn*
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By nucklepunche
#14199481
Was vegan for a month last year. I lost a lot of body fat and it improved my digestion and skin a lot however I was tired all the time. I tried vegetarianism again recently, however I have adapted a more flexible mostly plant-based albeit non-vegetarian diet recently. I now eat a lot of green vegetables (as much as I like), generous portions of fruit and whole grains, and limited amounts of meat, mostly chicken and fish (mainly as a garnish for vegetables) only eating red meat occasionally. I have cut out refined grains, oils, and sweets completely. Dairy is limited to mostly yogurt and kefir, no milk, very little cheese. My new diet has given me the benefits I had before (improved digestion, skin, lower body fat) but while keeping my energy levels high.

I certainly think it has made me feel better than the typical American diet which is high in meat, fat, and refined grains, but even if westerners eat too much meat it is no reason to give it up.
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By quetzalcoatl
#14199601
Godstud wrote: ...the reality of it being very unnatural for humans to BE Vegans in the first place...


Humans are not Vegans:

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By Godstud
#14199624
By RhetoricThug
#14199679
The point is, my rats have taught me to be omnivorous.

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