Dams have their own ecological problems - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14829266
Dams have their own ecological problems. Nevertheless, it is possible to achieve electrical self-sufficiency for individuals and small groups - and to do so in a responsible manner. It's possible, for instance, to repurpose commercial standby power inverters (they can be purchased at reasonable prices when large buildings upgrade their equipment). Known as Uninterruptible Power Systems, these units have batteries that are normally maintained by a trickle charge from the grid - but they can be maintained by solar panels or wind turbines instead. These can be operated in tandem with diesel generators that take up the slack when the system fails or you have an unexpected load (run the generators with biodiesel).
#14829342
Small independent electrical systems have been hindered from implementation and technological advances because they free us from centralized control. They are still progressing despite the opposition and will eventually revolutionize how we live.
#14829351
Small independent electrical systems are hindered from implementation because the loss of efficiency created by redundant power grids makes the economics of independent systems prohibitively expensive for anyone not wealthy. Electrical power is a classic case of natural monopoly. If the government didn't control the power grid then it would be centrally controlled by national or regional monopolies which would leave people worse off.
#14829359
mikema63 wrote:Small independent electrical systems are hindered from implementation because the loss of efficiency created by redundant power grids makes the economics of independent systems prohibitively expensive for anyone not wealthy. Electrical power is a classic case of natural monopoly. If the government didn't control the power grid then it would be centrally controlled by national or regional monopolies which would leave people worse off.

Electronics are a prime example of how expensive items become very affordable as their popularity increases.
Individual electrical systems are only expensive due to the hindering of their acceptance, by various means. For example: There are affordable nuclear plants for small scale use. They are very competitive in the long term. Their greater acceptance would allow rental purchase agreements to make them more affordable.
Our electrical systems are controlled by regulated monopolies in most areas. Few people have a choice.
#14829363
The problem isn't the generators it's the grid. To have your own independent power supply you need an independent grid. This is not only expensive to build but also maintain. This infrastructure isn't something that would get cheaper from popularity, it's a fixed cost.

Like I said electrical power is a natural monopoly, it cannot be a competitive market no matter what. The best you can have is a heavily regulated or nationalized market.
#14829368
mikema63 wrote:The problem isn't the generators it's the grid. To have your own independent power supply you need an independent grid. This is not only expensive to build but also maintain. This infrastructure isn't something that would get cheaper from popularity, it's a fixed cost.

Like I said electrical power is a natural monopoly, it cannot be a competitive market no matter what. The best you can have is a heavily regulated or nationalized market.

The grid is only necessary due to the huge numbers served by the individual companies. The US has one power plant for each 50,000 people, yet Private companies serve millions of people from multiple plants. It is the risk of millions losing power that is the primary reason for a grid. The smaller the area served the less important the grid. Individual power sources only use a grid to purchase their excess production, but it is not essential.
We are actually more secure as a country by having smaller units than a grid of larger units.
#14829374
The grid is only necessary due to the huge numbers served by the individual companies.


This is simply incorrect. The grid exists because the fixed costs of power generation are the main costs. The total fixed cost of unified systems is lower (and therefor lower for individual consumers) than the fixed cost of independent systems. The grid exists because the economics of power generation create them. Indeed the majority of Americans simply wouldn't be able to afford to generate their own power and independent infrastructure. Simply asserting that we would be better off with independent systems ignores the fact that reality will not allow it.
#14829382
mikema63 wrote:This is simply incorrect. The grid exists because the fixed costs of power generation are the main costs. The total fixed cost of unified systems is lower (and therefor lower for individual consumers) than the fixed cost of independent systems. The grid exists because the economics of power generation create them. Indeed the majority of Americans simply wouldn't be able to afford to generate their own power and independent infrastructure. Simply asserting that we would be better off with independent systems ignores the fact that reality will not allow it.

You seem to have ignored my arguments of how it does not need to be cost ineffective. If there is one power plant for 50,000 people, then how does it reduce costs to have one power supplier for millions? The larger companies have the political power to increase prices while smaller companies do not have the same power. Large companies have their 'ex employees ' on the oversight committees. This results in artificially high costs for the consumer. The largest impediment to individual power sources are the regulations passed in favor of the largest companies. For example: As far as I know, it is illegal in most areas to not attach to the grid and pay for it.

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