Combating Fascism The Peaceful Constructive Way - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15011342
Fascism is basically defunct, the last vaguely fascist regime was Fransisco Franco's of Spain which petered out with his death in 1975. You might as well be quailing in terror of Napoleon Bonaparte or Genghis Khan for all the relevance to the present day. Commies were a worse threat but even they are ancient history really, well except China, DPRK and Cuba kinda sorta. If you want to fight someone fight muslims since they are an actual present day threat to our freedom and security. You all need to quit living in the past.
Last edited by SolarCross on 11 Jun 2019 01:21, edited 1 time in total.
#15011344
The peaceful, constructive way to combat fascism is to not vote for fascist parties/politicians, to speak out against fascism, to peacefully protest against it, to educate on its dangers. The unpeaceful way would be to punch Nazis and ban any sniff of alt-right fascists from any kind of speech platform.

This is the way liberal democracy works. Feel the magic.
#15011392
Politics_Observer wrote:Hey man you do whatever you want to do. You seem to have this all figured out. I'm not going to get in your way as long as you are not messing with me and my family. But bear in mind, that most people have families, even those fascists do.


So, no answers to my questions and criticisms?
#15011398
Pants-of-dog wrote:Since I never claimed that, I am just going to ignore it.



Yes, you mentioned all of this several times, and I already mentioned that i agree with it.

I then pointed out how this is fine in general but not for fascism in particular.

I then asked you if there was something about fascism in particular that made it more amenable to this approach. You have yet to answer that.

I also pointed out that fascism is particular in that it is inherently about attacking the rights of others, often with violence. You have yet to address that.

I also pointed out that militant reactions have historically worked well against fascism. You also have yet to address that.

And if you wish, you can also explain how it would benefit me to compromise in any way with fascists.


I think even if your concerns are addressed, it suffices to stop getting the likes to either Fascists, you or even me to get in power. We only need to deal matters militantly if other means cannot stop their / your / my usurpation of power.
#15011570
Julian658 wrote:The victimhood coalition created by intersectionality constantly puts down white straight men. Sooner or later the negativity will cause that group to feel victimized and hence they will also enter into the realm of identity politics. The left is playing with fire by playing the race identity game. That is what put Trump on the White House. And I am afraid the left will go even farther left and put Trump in there for another four years. Can you imagine the last year of Trump as a lame duck POTUS when he is in his late 70's? It will be hell for the left!

If the population is majority white then most people you see in the street will be white. Why does that bother you?


You keep trying to spin it as everyone else playing the victim, but the more you talk the more it sounds like a small section of Drunk Racist Thanksgiving Uncles who are projecting onto everyone else.
#15011600
SpecialOlympian wrote:You keep trying to spin it as everyone else playing the victim, but the more you talk the more it sounds like a small section of Drunk Racist Thanksgiving Uncles who are projecting onto everyone else.

Why are you using the R word?
I am trying to help Dems beat Trump and you come up with the R word?
The word is used so much that it has lost its meaning?
What is racism anyway? I never understood that term.
#15011604
Julian658 wrote:The word is used so much that it has lost its meaning?
What is racism anyway? I never understood that term.

It has yes.

Racism could be any of the below:

1. the belief that race is a reasonable or useful taxonomy
2. the belief that it is reasonable to make qualitative value judgements on alleged characteristics of supposed races.
3. a general preference for some races over other races
4. an explicit and implacable loathing for some races

Virtually everyone is at least one of those including everyone on the left so it is a pretty meaningless accusation really. I personally would only use it to describe 4.

Amazingly and absurdly it is even used now to denounce those that criticise certain ideologies. Some on the left have classed "Islamophobia" as racism despite the fact that Islam is an ideology or religion not a race as such. No other ideologies seem to get this treatment though, not even communism which is weird and suspicious.
#15011613
SolarCross wrote:It has yes.

Racism could be any of the below:

1. the belief that race is a reasonable or useful taxonomy
2. the belief that it is reasonable to make qualitative value judgements on alleged characteristics of supposed races.
3. a general preference for some races over other races
4. an explicit and implacable loathing for some races

Virtually everyone is at least one of those including everyone on the left so it is a pretty meaningless accusation really. I personally would only use it to describe 4.

Amazingly and absurdly it is even used now to denounce those that criticise certain ideologies. Some on the left have classed "Islamophobia" as racism despite the fact that Islam is an ideology or religion not a race as such. No other ideologies seem to get this treatment though, not even communism which is weird and suspicious.


I believe the R word is used to walk away from a discussion when the user of the words has no new arguments.
However, it is possible the frequent use of the word reflects low self esteem. The best way to end racism is to judge people individually and not according to membership in a group.
#15011617
Here is another alternative to combating fascism the peaceful way and effectively. The Swiss set a good example in this regard. Part of an effective means to fighting fascism peacefully is that a good defense is a good offense politically. Here is a quote from the article "How to Fight Fascism from a Position of Strength: "

Resilience wrote:My impression is that the Swiss right-wing’s strategy was like the movement against reproductive choice in the United States — a series of steps designed to chip away at a woman’s right to choose. Switzerland’s established parties reacted to this offensive in the way the Democrats do in the United Sates: by going on the defensive and trying to hold on to previously-won gains. In both countries, the largest parties operate contrary to the folk wisdom that “the best defense is a good offense.”

Kleiner and her friends, however, knew better, and they launched a grassroots initiative. Their crowd-funded, volunteer-based campaign defeated the Swiss People’s party in four major referendum battles from 2016-2018.

Operation Libero did this by ignoring the established parties’ strategy of defending existing immigration policies. Instead, the movement put forward a vision that stressed Switzerland’s progressive values. In their cultural context, they framed the vote as an affirmation of their pluralist constitution, “a pillar of the liberal democracy” that the vast majority of Swiss are proud of. They were so effective at re-framing the referenda that the right wing had to change its own argument and go on the defensive. As a result, the anti-immigrant cause lost its referendum for the fifth time in November.


The article continues:

Resilience wrote:Khankan’s Muslim father is a refugee from Syria who came to Denmark after being imprisoned and tortured for his opposition to the regime. She knew from his experience what courage looked like. But still, the threats worried her.

One person she turned to for advice was Jacob Holdt, an internationally known Danish artist who owned the building she used for the mosque. A few months afterward, my partner and I happened to be visiting Holdt in Copenhagen. I asked the artist what happened to the threats against Khankan.

Jacob chuckled and said, “She was very surprised with my answer, but she trusted me enough to try it. She used her networking skills to track down some of the extremist leaders of the anti-immigrant movement, then she went to see them. She knocked on their doors at their homes, talked with them, let them see her courage and what she’s made of.”

The fascists were, of course, startled. What’s more, as Jacob explained, “They were so impressed by her boldness that they agreed to put the word out that she shouldn’t be hurt or threatened.”

Now the mosque is flourishing with a female co-leader Saliha Marie Fetteh, offering mixed-gender services on most days and a women’s service on Fridays. Taking the offensive seems to be the way to go.


@Pants-of-dog

Here is another part of the article I think you should consider POD:

Resilience wrote:The other favorite tactic of right-wing extremists is to threaten and use violence to increase the fear level of their opponents. Symbols are less costly than actually injuring and killing, and so they like to use symbols like clubs, tiki torches, burning crosses, or dressing in sheets or military-style uniforms. By getting there first, they set the tone, but they don’t win just by doing that. Their victory comes when their opponents respond in a like manner and try to out-intimidate the intimidators.

The threat of counter-violence reinforces the “action logic” of the fascists: we are the framers of this contest, and our opponents concede by following our lead. The confrontation has become a contest about who is best able to scare the other side into changing their behavior.


So instead of using violence, clowns were used in some cases to confront the fascists. It's counter-intuitive:

Resilience wrote:The grassroots progressive Swiss solution was not only to go on the offensive with visionary content. They re-framed, set a different tone, confounded the right-wingers, and won over and over. What’s the equivalent on the streets?

In a number of countries grassroots people have been experimenting with re-framing and sending a message that strongly contrasts with the right-wingers. In Sweden the Clowns against Racism confronted a spring rally last year of the extreme-right Nordic Resistance Movement in the town of Ludvika. The clowns became so popular, exceeding numbers that can march without a permit, that the police announced they needed to pay a fine. That announcement gained even more publicity for their refusal to follow the neo-fascist’s tactical lead.

Clowning has also shown up in Finland and Scotland. In her delightful article for Waging Nonviolence, Sarah Freeman-Woolpert describes clowning in a number of U.S. localities. In Knoxville, Tennessee, the clown brigade was so effective that the neo-Nazi group called off their demonstration several hours early.

In Wunsiedel, Germany, some merry pranksters who oppose neo-Nazi ideology came out to cheer the marchers. Why? They’d turned it into a fundraising event: local residents and businesses pledged to donate 10 euros for every meter the white supremacists marched. The funds raised went to an anti-fascist group helping people leave right-wing organizations.


https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019 ... -strength/

References-

"How to Fight Fascism From a Position of Strength." Resilience, 22 Feb. 2019, www.resilience.org/stories/2019-02-22/h ... -strength/. Accessed 11 June 2019.
#15011618
Julian658 wrote:Why are you using the R word?
I am trying to help Dems beat Trump and you come up with the R word?
The word is used so much that it has lost its meaning?
What is racism anyway? I never understood that term.


"Minorities shouldn't upset white racists by existing and Democrats should be more like Republicans" is great advice thanks for the poorly formatted bad faith opinion buddy.
#15011620
Julian658 wrote:I believe the R word is used to walk away from a discussion when the user of the words has no new arguments.


Yes. Often conservatives will get all offended and leave the discussion whenever someone points out racism.
#15011627
SpecialOlympian wrote:"Minorities shouldn't upset white racists by existing and Democrats should be more like Republicans" is great advice thanks for the poorly formatted bad faith opinion buddy.


What is a minority? If a city is 75% Hispanic, are they still the minority?

I get confused by these terms? How do you define a minority?

Why do you say minorities upset racists? Does that mean some white people do not like the minorities?

You don’t like white straight men. Are you a racist for not liking straight white men?

I agree with your description of the Republicans and Democrats. They are opposite sides of the same coin. They simply pander to different interest groups to get elected. Blacks have voted 90% plus for the Dems for 60 years so I would say pandering works.
#15011628
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes. Often conservatives will get all offended and leave the discussion whenever someone points out racism.

Conservatives get frustrated when a lefty uses the R word to avoid an honest discussion of an issue. Using the R word means insecurity, low self esteem, or not really knowing the issues.

The R word should be reserved for those that truly hate other races.
#15011630
Julian658 wrote:Conservatives get frustrated when a lefty uses the R word to avoid an honest discussion of an issue. Using the R word means insecurity, low self esteem, or not really knowing the issues.


This sounds like pop psychology to me, and insulting pop psychology at that.

Can you show an example of this happening?

The R word should be reserved for those that truly hate other races.


I prefer to use it to describe a set of beliefs and practices that have historically been used to give one race an advantage over other races.
#15011645
Politics_Observer wrote:Here is another alternative to combating fascism the peaceful way and effectively.


The hardcore of the left just want a civil war they don't really care about racism or whatever. If "fascists" didn't exist (and they barely do as it is) they would have to invent them (which is exactly what they do most of the time). Out of a civil war they imagine they can create an authoritarian oligarchy with themselves as the masters. They want to repeat the USSR, DPRK etc.

The rest of the left are just witless dupes, "useful idiots".
#15011690
Julian658 wrote:What is a minority? If a city is 75% Hispanic, are they still the minority?

I get confused by these terms? How do you define a minority?


Perhaps it would be best for all of us if you did some basic reading on your own and then came back to the thread, so that we don't waste our time with someone asking questions like a toddler, but in bad faith.

Your "I'm just concerned for the left!" act isn't very good by the way. Try harder.

SolarCross wrote:The hardcore of the left just want a civil war they don't really care about racism or whatever. If "fascists" didn't exist (and they barely do as it is) they would have to invent them (which is exactly what they do most of the time). Out of a civil war they imagine they can create an authoritarian oligarchy with themselves as the masters. They want to repeat the USSR, DPRK etc.

The rest of the left are just witless dupes, "useful idiots".


Lmao this from a guy whose avatar has helped radicalize multiple right wing terrorists.
#15011698
There's only one way to deal with Fascism;



''A bullet and a bomb for the scum of humanity...''

Real Fascism that is, not these cardboard props of the Elites.
#15011724
Pants-of-dog wrote:This sounds like pop psychology to me, and insulting pop psychology at that.

Can you show an example of this happening?


LOL. that is like asking to prove the Earth is not flat. In this very thread The Special Olympian plays the race card constantly. She said:
Minorities shouldn't upset white racists by existing

The more you talk the more it sounds like a small section of Drunk Racist Thanksgiving


There is plenty more. I suppose you people do this so much you do not realize you are doing it. Does a fish knows it is in the water?


I prefer to use it to describe a set of beliefs and practices that have historically been used to give one race an advantage over other races.


The other side of the coin is the desire for victimhood. That one is even more prevalent.
Last edited by Julian658 on 12 Jun 2019 23:39, edited 1 time in total.
#15011725
SolarCross wrote:Fascism is basically defunct, the last vaguely fascist regime was Fransisco Franco's of Spain which petered out with his death in 1975. You might as well be quailing in terror of Napoleon Bonaparte or Genghis Khan for all the relevance to the present day. Commies were a worse threat but even they are ancient history really, well except China, DPRK and Cuba kinda sorta. If you want to fight someone fight muslims since they are an actual present day threat to our freedom and security. You all need to quit living in the past.


Fascism still exists in some remote places like Australia. There was an uproar over a neo-Nazi being interviewed on Sky News. Blair Cottrell called for a portrait of Adolf Hitler to be hung in every (Australian) classroom and every school and for copies of Mein Kampf to be "issued annually" to students in local media.


#15011726
ThirdTerm wrote:Fascism still exists in some remote places like Australia. There was an uproar over a neo-Nazi being interviewed on Sky News. Blair Cottrell called for a portrait of Adolf Hitler to be hung in every (Australian) classroom and every school and for copies of Mein Kampf to be "issued annually" to students in local media.




An exception to the rule does not prove a point. Fascism is not a problem anymore. in most parts of the world.
BTW, there is very little difference between fascism and communism.
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