[mikema63]

Since the Religious people seem to be getting their own club I've decided to float the idea of a club for atheists/agnostics. Anyone interested?

[fuser]

probably. but I am not sure what would we be discussing there.

But more importantly, do we get to vandalize their places of worship?

[Goldberk]

I would defiantly be interested (though it's a shame that snrf isn't effectively an atheist club)

[The Sabbaticus]

As as a casual observer, I would like to express my amusement over an Islamist (Goldberk) attempting to join a secular society. With friends like these, you don't need any enemies.

[mikema63]

probably. but I am not sure what would we be discussing there

Well aside from just general venting about the religious in our lives we could probably argue about general philosophical stuff about living our lives. We could argue about new atheism or how activist we should be, or even if we should proselytize or something similar. There is a lot of debate about various topics within the atheist community, such as arguing about Islam.

But more importantly, do we get to vandalize their places of worship?

This goes without saying.

As as a casual observer, I would like to express my amusement over an Islamist (Goldberk) attempting to join a secular society. With friends like these, you don't need any enemies.

If your not violently anti-Islam your an Islamist?

Any way, we have 3 so far.

Mikema63
Goldberk
Fuser

[ComradeTim]

Are only irreligious atheists allowed or can Jains, Buddhists, Taoists etc join?

[fuser]

Only irreligious, I hope. Buddhists and Taoists already got their club.

Oh and I agree with Goldberk about SN-RF not being an atheist club already while I am laughing at the Sabb's notion of Goldberk being an Islamist.

[mikema63]

Daoism has Gods, usually pulled from various tribal beliefs in the area where it's practiced, it's generally the more westernized version that is atheistic.

The supernatural elements of Buddhism make me lean against it. IIRC Jainism is a form of Buddhism so that would also be a no. Fuser would more be able to say better whether it should be included or not.

I'll leave Daoism as a maybe as it would depend largely on the practitioner since Daoism is quite vauge on a lot of things and the Tao could be interpreted as an impersonal force (of course you cannot know the Dao). If Potemkin comes by I would respect what he has to say on it.

Are you interested in joining Tim?

Edit: So a no to Buddhists.

[Old_Hat]

Someone hasn't thought this through.

[mikema63]

What makes you say that? Atheist clubs and societies exist and work fairly well. I don't see why ours would not.

[ComradeTim]

Well, I practice philosophical versions of Buddhism and Taoism with no gods per say, so the atheism part fits. I guess if you want me and it doesn't conflict with membership of the Perennial Society (which would come first), sure.

[mikema63]

I'm not sure, if you'd care to elaborate a bit?

If your mixing Buddhism with Daoism wouldn't that come out something similar to zen Buddhism?

[fuser]

IIRC Jainism is a form of Buddhism

Technically, its other way around. Jainism is older than Buddhism and Buddhism at its inception drew heavily from Jainism although former was much more successful. Jainism is the only religion that quite explicitly rejects any notion of God or supernatural beings but still retains metaphysical concepts like "karma" claiming it to be same as physical laws.

IMO, no religion should be entertained in this club whether they come up with god/s or not.

[Old_Hat]

What makes you say that? Atheist clubs and societies exist and work fairly well. I don't see why ours would not.

What are you going to discuss? You'll just be taking up space.

[mikema63]

There is a great deal of debate within atheism. After all sans a religious system many atheists like to discuss various ethical philosophies and the meaning of life ect.

We will also be discussing religion to a certain extent, either from a tactics perspective on things like creationism, or merely to vent from time to time.

There are also different "sects" within atheism like the new atheists (the vocal anti-theist types like Dawkins and Hitchens) and those of us like me who are much more laid back about people believing in gods or what have you.

There is also a general overlap with the skeptics movement so It's possible we may end up talking about things like homeopathy or other general nonsense that isn't strictly religious.

[fuser]

or if everything fails, a weekly make fun of "x" religion will do the job.

[ComradeTim]

I'm not sure, if you'd care to elaborate a bit?

If your mixing Buddhism with Daoism wouldn't that come out something similar to zen Buddhism?

Buddhism and Taoism are pretty similar to start off with, so it's more a matter of not ruling out influences that adhering to a particular strand of thought. I quite like the ideas of Drukpa Kunley, the wandering monk credited with introducing Buddhism to Bhutan. His philosophy can be summed up thusly in poem form (very beautiful in Bhutanese):

Poem about happiness

I am happy that I am a free Yogi.

So I grow more and more into my inner happiness.

I can have sex with many women,

because I help them to go the path of enlightenment.

Outwardly I'm a fool

and inwardly I live with a clear spiritual system.

Outwardly, I enjoy wine, women and song.

And inwardly I work for the benefit of all beings.

Outwardly, I live for my pleasure

and inwardly I do everything in the right moment.

Outwardly I am a ragged beggar

and inwardly a blissful Buddha.


I like that he isn't as stuffy as many religious figures can be and doesn't preclude enjoying life whilst still dealing with serious spiritual concepts.

Kunley used sex as a catalyst for change, for union, for self discovery, for hormonal enlivenment, creating the biological journey to ultimate connection. Sex and yoga are inseparable because it is the art of sex that raises consciousness and creates union.

[mikema63]

or if everything fails, a weekly make fun of "x" religion will do the job.

I think we can get a full year out of new age religious crap alone.

ComradeTim, I'm really not sure, I think for now we'll just have to table it for later. You have the perennial society in any case. No hard feelings.

[Goldberk]

I praise allmighty Allah for the infidels decision to let me join, and declare a fatwah against sab and all his works.

In all seriousness, I would imagine the club would have similarities to the humanist groups that exist across the UK, discussing how to combat religious privilage and discussion philosophy from an atheist perspective

[RhetoricThug]

The secular society, eh? Mikema, how can you be atheist or agnostic if you clearly have faith in science? Linguistically, this should be called- "Anti-Theology Society." Science with its profane awareness is a form of faith dominated by dialectic reason retrieved through mimesis. Religion exhibits the same pattern of devotion, only it is satisfied with metaphors and imagination instead of empiricism and nihilism. Science, Sola fide, unleashed nuclear destruction. What did God ever do to you?

I do not wish to join this society. I only wanted to suggest that you should change your scientific label from secular to Anti-Theology.