[Bosnjak]

I heard about the Socialist Yugoslawia that the companies had an hierarchy of how much each worker can steal produced goods.

And they had an hierarchy (the workers less, the administration more)...


Discuss.

[Wolfman]

Um... bull. I know that under Tito the companys were owned, managed, and run by the workers. There was no admin to speak of (other then maybe elected personnel), and no one 'stole' from the company in some organized way. Socialist Yugoslavia was also called almost every name in the book by the Kremlin. And the term "Titoism" applies better then Socialism anyways. Look up 'Titoist Yugoslavia' on Wikipedia.

[Ademir]

Um... bull. I know that under Tito the companys were owned, managed, and run by the workers. There was no admin to speak of (other then maybe elected personnel), and no one 'stole' from the company in some organized way. Socialist Yugoslavia was also called almost every name in the book by the Kremlin. And the term "Titoism" applies better then Socialism anyways. Look up 'Titoist Yugoslavia' on Wikipedia.

While I regret being unable to study Yugoslavia further due to the relative scarcity of sources in English and my poor grasp of the language in the old country, I thought it was amusing that almost every member of my family who lived in former Yugoslavia vindicated Bosnjak's claim about being able to steal a certain amount of goods produced. While he may have... crudely phrased it, making it seem like some kind of official system, I think it is not entirely unbelievable that hush-hush deals existed between workers and their managers in terms of how much stuff could be taken. As far as I understand, everyone was rather unhappy at the fact that they were being paid so crap.

Most of my family also says the worker-control thing was bullshit for any important industry

Of course, I dont have any scholarly evidence so it may just be a bunch of opinions and my family just might be particularly prone to stealing produced goods. I just thought it was amusing that my grandmother stole so many bottles of wine

[Wolfman]

While he may have... crudely phrased it, making it seem like some kind of official system, I think it is not entirely unbelievable that hush-hush deals existed between workers and their managers in terms of how much stuff could be taken.

Again, WTF are you talking about? any management was elected by the workers!

As far as I understand, everyone was rather unhappy at the fact that they were being paid so crap.

Who ever is telling you this is full of bullshit. Yugoslavia under Tito had a massive economic expassion that took it from one of the poorest countrys on the planet to having an average standard of living that was close to the US at the time.

Most of my family also says the worker-control thing was bullshit for any important industry

I cann't see why. It's not like there is any actual evidence of anything other an Autogestive Economy in Yugoslavia during Tito.

Of course, I dont have any scholarly evidence so it may just be a bunch of opinions

It's a bunch of oppions that have no facts backing them up. Which makes them lies.

[Ademir]

Take it easy, I wasn't saying you were wrong. I admitted that it was just anecdotal evidence. But:

1. Economic expansion is not the same thing as workers being paid well. No one is denying the economic growth of Yugoslavia during Tito's reign
2. No one is denying autogestation was official policy, only that it wasn't actually followed ie that the so called election of managers was rigged

[Aekos]

It's not like there is any actual evidence of anything other an Autogestive Economy in Yugoslavia during Tito.

I can vouch for this system (at least in Belgrade). My relatives worked in successful autogestive companies.

[Wolfman]

Take it easy, I wasn't saying you were wrong

True, you were just calling my political views cleptocracy. I'm sorry if I was offended.

No one is denying autogestation was official policy, only that it wasn't actually followed ie that the so called election of managers was rigged

A rigged election = no election at all. No election at all = not autogestion. Through the transitive property of math I therefor deduce that rigged elections = not Autogestion

I can vouch for this system (at least in Belgrade). My relatives worked in successful autogestive companies.

Thank you.

[Ademir]

True, you were just calling my political views cleptocracy. I'm sorry if I was offended.

I did no such thing. The person who started the thread did. I merely mentioned some amusing anecdotes from my personal life. Even if I had gone so far as to claim that some anecdotal evidence was solid evidence, it still would not have implied that autogestion = kleptocracy, only that Yugoslavia did not have real autogestion; therefore, I was in no way attacking your political views. Lighten up.

[Wolfman]

I did no such thing. The person who started the thread did.

Lets see...

almost every member of my family who lived in former Yugoslavia vindicated Bosnjak's claim about being able to steal a certain amount of goods produced
....
Most of my family also says the worker-control thing was bullshit for any important industry

Nope, sounds nothing like you calling the Titoist system Cleptocracy

therefore, I was in no way attacking your political views. Lighten up.

You'd just have been insulting the largest example of my views, with no evidence.

So, what are you views? Liberal, Conservative, Socialist? Because I'm pretty sure that if I started spouting off a bunch of bullshit about your views you'd be a little peeved too. oh, and telling me to lighten up was the part that irritaited me.

[Ademir]

I don't get peeved at things people say on the internet, especially if it's intended to be taken mostly as a joke (as my original post was - like I said, I never once claimed that anecdotal evidence from my own family accurately describes the situation in Yugoslavia), and especially when my own political views are very friendly to the topic.

[Red Star]

Red Star Note: OK guys, put it behind you and play nicely.