Organization of the socialist economy - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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As either the transitional stage to communism or legitimate socio-economic ends in its own right.
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#14259378
One of the most important questions in socialism is the organization of the socialist economy itself. What I mean is does the state have to control, besides big production plants, medium bussinesses? By what means does the state take the factories back into its hands? By nationalization or buying it off its owners? These are only some of many questions on which not all socialists agree on and depends on the individual opinion of the socialist himself.
What are your opinions on these issues?
#14259508
I don't like nationalization because it creates victim complexes.
The state can recreate anything capitalists have created with ease.
edit:also most factories are in china so might as well
edit2: okay I got ahead of myself. I guess nationalization. It just conflicts me cause it involves stealing. Ideally it'd be a scenario like the USSR where the state created the industries first but through a democratic process as opposed to a dictatorship.
#14259993
Andronicus wrote:One of the most important questions in socialism is the organization of the socialist economy itself. What I mean is does the state have to control, besides big production plants, medium bussinesses? By what means does the state take the factories back into its hands? By nationalization or buying it off its owners? These are only some of many questions on which not all socialists agree on and depends on the individual opinion of the socialist himself.
What are your opinions on these issues?


If the state owns something, the workers don't own it. The whole point of socialism is worker ownership of the means of production, so I don't really see how the question of nationalization comes up.

I don't agree with state ownership of the means of production any more than I agree with the private ownership of the means of production.
#14262789
Nationalisation is the same thing as socialisation as the party is the will of the working class made flesh, as long as the party is in firm control of the workers state then state control of industry is the same thing as workers control of industry.

One party, one class, one leader!
#14263150
the problem with buying productive assets is that it leaves the rich with the wealth

its not fair that 1% of the worlds population own 90% of the wealth. surely everyone is entitled to a wage which reflects the efforts they have made and a reasonable standard of living if they are able to work. I don't understand why rich people who have alraedy enjoyed privaleges in their life are owed more than the rest of us for the rest of their lives.

if a cake is cut and someone is fortunate enough to receive a larger piece than everyone else - surely that does not entitle them to a similarly large piece the next time the cake is cut up

the only reason the very rich fear becoming more equal is that they have designed and buildt an economic system in which the majority live in poor conditions and with a degree of insecurity.
#14944541
Andronicus wrote:
One of the most important questions in socialism is the organization of the socialist economy itself. What I mean is does the state have to control, besides big production plants, medium bussinesses?



Perhaps the vanguard / workers state would only have the role of a 'security'-type, or 'paramilitary' force, to 'clear' certain critical factories out of private hands for public-goods-only production. Once a workplace is 'secure' and producing directly for unmet human need, internally it could be controlled by the workers themselves, within a larger context of *all* 'liberated' production centers, on a sliding scale of distance and/or ease of transport. (In other words, geographically *closer* supply-chain possible locations, and/or materially-easier routes would be preferred / weighted more favorably by any given local location.)

I'll add that I conceive the whole revolutionary undertaking to be one of a gradually expanding circle of revolutionary productive workplaces, in relative size and sophistication -- basic human needs would have to come first, so that all revolutionary worker and consumer-type humane needs are supplied-to first, so as to initially be as collectively independent and collectively self-sufficient as possible, although at a rudimentary level of quality depending on actual supplies. This would be the standard / benchmark for all subsequent collective activity, as into increasingly more sophisticated creature-comforts later on, depending on the prevailing conditions of class struggle.


[10] Supply prioritization in a socialist transitional economy

Spoiler: show
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If mass proletarian control of big production plants -- say for agriculture and transportation -- was sufficient to supply to *everyone*, barring no one, then that would be a 'Phase 1', to be followed by increasing qualitative increments across-the-board, for 'Phase 2', etc.

If medium-sized-and-smaller businesses weren't necessary (were superfluous) for this kind of endeavor, then they could probably be safely ignored, since the direct-distribution for human need (for free) would *undercut* such businesses anyway.


Andronicus wrote:
By what means does the state take the factories back into its hands?



There would have to be a mass movement -- like historically in Venezuela -- that would politically *support* such radical-reformist policies of nationalization / socialization of the means of mass industrial production.

Again, I would go so far as to suggest that only the most-humanely-needed and most-logistically-simple types of production be prioritized for such a vanguardist / workers-state kind of control, depending on actual prevailing political sentiment and actual productive capacities at the time.


Andronicus wrote:
By nationalization or buying it off its owners?



Nationalization, to cut-against and *reverse* decades of austerity measures that have been imposed by the capitalist ruling class.


Andronicus wrote:
These are only some of many questions on which not all socialists agree on and depends on the individual opinion of the socialist himself.
What are your opinions on these issues?



It's disingenuous to term revolutionary-minded responses on these issues as being merely 'opinions', since there have been objective *trends* against the working class, like the ongoing austerity measures and imperialist warfare against non-Western countries.
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