Why Socialism is Necessary for Civilization - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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As either the transitional stage to communism or legitimate socio-economic ends in its own right.
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15026860
SolarCross wrote:No it isn't because you want to kill all the capitalists. Technically that is almost everyone including yourself. Where is the solidarity in wanting to butcher humans for being human?


I don't want to kill anyone even "capitalists" which doesn't include you btw or "everyone". If you want me to put it in terms you'd understand, I'm referring to upper class landowners and industrialists. I want workers to own the means of production and be rewarded their collective force.

And if you have to exploit and manipulate people to exist you aren't human.
#15026863
Palmyrene wrote:I don't want to kill anyone even "capitalists" which doesn't include you btw or "everyone". If you want me to put it in terms you'd understand, I'm referring to upper class landowners and industrialists. I want workers to own the means of production and be rewarded their collective force.

And if you have to exploit and manipulate people to exist you aren't human.

You say that but then come the revolution... I'll be shot along with everyone else for being a "capitalist".
#15026868
Palmyrene wrote:We're anarchists not socialists or communists.

That stuff only happens in MList revolutions.


You mean like antifa? Like the bomb throwing terrorists of the 19th century? Like the gang of land pirates in Ukraine lead by Nestor Makno? :lol:

I'll pass thanks.
#15026869
SolarCross wrote:You mean like antifa? Like the bomb throwing terrorists of the 19th century? Like the gang of land pirates in Ukraine lead by Nestor Makno? :lol:

I'll pass thanks.


If you seriously think antifa are anarchists then you are very misinformed. Antifa isn't even an organization, it's a brand.

And calling the Ukrainian anarchists "terrorists" is just Bolshevik propaganda. They were anything but and fought well against both the White Army and the Red Army.
#15026871
Palmyrene wrote:If you seriously think antifa are anarchists then you are very misinformed. Antifa isn't even an organization, it's a brand.

And calling the Ukrainian anarchists "terrorists" is just Bolshevik propaganda. They were anything but and fought well against both the White Army and the Red Army.

They stole people's property and carried out extra-judicial murders for dodgy ideological justifications. They were basically just a different rival brand of bolshevik.

I'll pass thanks.
#15026873
SolarCross wrote:They stole people's property and carried out extra-judicial murders for dodgy ideological justifications. They were basically just a different rival brand of bolshevik.

I'll pass thanks.


You mean the property of wealthy landlords who owned people's lives like serfs? And what extra judicial murders?

And no, they were nothing like the Bolsheviks. They were administered completely differently. Being an anarchist would do that.
#15026875
Palmyrene wrote:You mean the property of wealthy landlords who owned people's lives like serfs? And what extra judicial murders?

And no, they were nothing like the Bolsheviks. They were administered completely differently. Being an anarchist would do that.


In practice it isn't different except anarchists are less honest.

Bolshevik: "I'm taking your stuff for the.. ahem ..'people', no you are not a person, now turn around so I can shoot you in the back of the head!"

Anarchist: "No masters! I'm taking your stuff for the.. ahem ..'people', no you are not a person, now turn around so I can shoot you in the back of the head!"
#15026878
SolarCross wrote:In practice it isn't different except anarchists are less honest.

Bolshevik: "I'm taking your stuff for the.. ahem ..'people', no you are not a person, now turn around so I can shoot you in the back of the head!"

Anarchist: "No masters! I'm taking your stuff for the.. ahem ..'people', no you are not a person, now turn around so I can shoot you in the back of the head!"


No. It wasn't like that at all.

Anarchists consisted of peasants and workers taking their houses and workplaces by force. It was theirs to begin with.

The Bolsheviks were exactly like that though.
#15026879
Palmyrene wrote:No. It wasn't like that at all.

Anarchists consisted of peasants and workers taking their houses and workplaces by force. It was theirs to begin with.

The Bolsheviks were exactly like that though.


Stealing stuff is fine if you can't get away with it. I just don't see the need for a pathetic ideological posturing to justify. Also victim blaming is not cool.
#15026881
I found this great new site. Here’s their organisational vision:

https://www.victimsofcommunism.org/



OUR VISION

We envision a world free from the false hope of communism.
The Berlin Wall fell in 1989, but communism didn’t. One hundred years after the Bolshevik Revolution, one fifth of the world’s population still lives under single-party communist regimes in China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam. Moreover, communist regimes commit the worst human rights abuses on the widest scale in the world today.

Communism promises to make everyone equal, but delivers radical inequality. Every time it is tried, it ends either in economic collapse or a police state.

From the famines, purges, and gulags of Soviet Russia to Mao’s Great Leap Forward and the Killing Fields of the Khmer Rouge—from the 1989 Tiananmen Square Massacre to the Castro regime’s 2012 murder of Cuban democracy activist Oswaldo Payá—communists have killed more than 100 million people over the past century. Countless more suffered and suffer still.

Shamefully, the free world never demanded a moral reckoning for the crimes of communist regimes. Those witnesses with a living memory of 20th century communism are passing away. And an entire generation of Americans is open to collectivist ideas because they don’t know the truth.

At the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, We tell the truth about communism because our vision is for a world free from the false hope of communism.

Our mission is to educate this generation and future generations about the ideology, history, and legacy of communism.
HELP US EDUCATE
ABOUT THE FOUNDATION

The Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation is an educational and human rights nonprofit organization authorized by a unanimous Congressional Act, which was signed as Public Law 103-199 by President William J. Clinton on December 17, 1993. From 2003 to 2009, President George W. Bush was Honorary Chairman of the Foundation. On June 12, 2007, he dedicated the Victims of Communism Memorial in Washington, D.C.

Every third week of July we mark National Captive Nations Week. Established by Public Law 86-90 in 1959 under President Dwight D. Eisenhower, it is a time set aside to recognize those peoples and nations suffering under communist and other totalitarian regimes.
#15026884
Agent Steel wrote:What is currently being presented in the form of socialized democracy is nothing new. A socialized democracy is essentially what the USA is and has ALWAYS been. Our military is an exercise in socialized democracy. Without it we cannot survive. And yet, a common mindset many Americans have is that socialized democracy is evil. I think anyone who believes that is oblivious.


Bernie Sanders made an amazing argument recently. He said 40-60 years ago you could get a good paying job with a high school education. So with FDR's New Deal and other reforms the US made public secondary education free to guarantee everyone a good chance to have a good job/wage.

But these days it's extremely difficult to get a good job with just a high school education. Now you usually need a post-secondary degree. Which is why Bernie supports free public college education for everyone. It is essentially just an update of the New Deal for the 21st century economy using the very same principles and standards.
#15026890
Palmyrene wrote:Everyone justifies their actions even you.

And the rich aren't victims :lol:.

They will be after your lot get your chance.

Palmyrene: "I'm the victim here!" {Splattered in blood, a smoking pistol in his hand before a line of corpses with the backs of their heads blown out}
#15026894
Palmyrene wrote:If you seriously think antifa are anarchists then you are very misinformed. Antifa isn't even an organization, it's a brand.

Fuck the antifa.
And calling the Ukrainian anarchists "terrorists" is just Bolshevik propaganda. They were anything but and fought well against both the White Army and the Red Army.

They are not just terrorists, they are enemies of socialism.
#15026895
SolarCross wrote:They will be after your lot get your chance.

Palmyrene: "I'm the victim here!" {Splattered in blood, a smoking pistol in his hand before a line of corpses with the backs of their heads blown out}


So I guess an abusive husband is a victim after his wife calls the cops and his wife is the oppressor?

Fighting against your oppression doesn't make you an oppressor.

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