Technocracy & Planned Economies - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The solving of mankind’s problems and abolition of government via technological solutions alone.

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User avatar
By MB.
#1794598
We could have had electric cars in 1930, and we could all be living comfortably in a technocratic utopia today.

However, we all know that lobbyists control everything.

Dave wrote:No, we could not have. Electric cars disappeared in the early 20th century for a reason. The best battery technology available in 1930 was the lead acid battery, and safe gel-cell lead acid batteries didn't even exist until the end of the 1940s. Charging lead acid batteries at a very high rate of power causes the batteries to degrade rapidly, and instead of lasting five years the kind of high power charging needed for a feasible electric car would shorten battery life to a few months. And high power 10 minute charging would simply destroy the battery.


Rather than charging the batteries they could be removed and swapped out using a recycling / interchange system.
Last edited by MB. on 11 Feb 2009 17:24, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#1794737
MB wrote:We could have had electric cars in 1930

And then we could have built thousands of clean nuclear reactors to power them. And then one of them could have done a Chernobyl X 1000, and we wouldn't have worried about climate change, since we'd all be dead from radiation.

Or we could have fired all these electric plants with tidal power, which, after changing fish patterns, could have lead to some other unforeseen disaster.

Perhaps the modern adage that "the only limit is the human imagination" is actually very, very false.
User avatar
By MB.
#1794742
Qatz I was merely observing the state of technology in the immediate post war environment. I was making absolutely no value judgment about the desirability of a hypothetical 1930s past where electric automotives predominate.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#1794745
Qatz I was merely observing the state of technology in the immediate post war environment. I was making absolutely no value judgment about the desirability of a hypothetical 1930s past where electric automotives predominate.

MB, I know you weren't. But the structure of your post and its slogan: "we could all be living comfortably in a technocratic utopia today," suggest that you were advertising a better future via technology. Which ought to be incredibly suspect at this point in real-life history.

Thanks for clearing up any inappropriate reading of your post.
User avatar
By MB.
#1794749
suggest that you were advertising a better future via technology. Which ought to be incredibly suspect at this point in real-life history.


I don't think you fully appreciate the concept of designing government via technocratic means.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#1794762
I don't think you fully appreciate the concept of designing government via technocratic means.

No, I don't. I thought Mussolini sucked.
User avatar
By MB.
#1794767
No, I don't. I thought Mussolini sucked.


http://www.technocracy.org/

It might be wise to have some idea what you're talking about.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#1794775
Technocracy is a form of government in which engineers, scientists, and other technical experts are in control. Technocracy is a governmental or organizational system where decision makers are selected based upon how highly knowledgeable they are, rather than how much political capital they hold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_(bureaucratic)

Fascism is an authoritarian nationalist ideology focused on solving economic, political, and social problems that its supporters see as causing national decline or decadence.[1][2][3][4] Fascists aim to create a single-party state in which the government is led by a dictator who seeks unity by requiring individuals to subordinate self-interest to the collective interest of the nation or a race.[5][6][7] Fascist movements promote violent conflict between nations, political factions, and races as part of a social darwinist view that conflict between these groups is natural and a part of evolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Both are systems of governance that submerge individual opinions and experiences in the name of "efficiency."
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#1794781
With Peak Oil, and the Global Warming crisis now developing, technate advocates contend that it is becoming ever more apparent that our present form of economy, a Price system, and our present form of governance, a political system, are structurally incapable of taking effective action. Technocracy technate design, is the possible 'Plan B,' according to them, for enabling a continuance of the technology, that will ensure our survival.

But trying to survive isn't science, MB. It's philosophy.

The ability to survive may be something that is so far from science that science can't even touch it.

Global warming was partially brought on by scientific solutions and logic mixed with human structures that were already existing. How does Techno Inc propose to get rid of these other human traits?
User avatar
By MB.
#1794787
How does Techno Inc propose to get rid of these other human traits?


Qatz, you make a valid point that I have never heard properaly addressed by the proponents of Technate governments.

Presumably human traits as we understand them today have been developed by centuries of indoctrination by capitalist / scarcity regimes. In a Technate, an entirely different value set would dominate.
User avatar
By Dave
#1794917
MB. wrote:Rather than charging the batteries they could be removed and swapped out using a recycling / interchange system.

Battery packs are extremely heavy. This would require an industrial crane. That's probably feasible today, but in 1930 would've been very expensive. Battery packs are also quite expensive and have a finite lifespan, so cost accounting would be problematic. Presumably an electric car owner could enter into some kind of battery service agreement and pay a monthly fee. At any rate this doesn't seem like it would've been particularly workable, and peak oil wasn't a concern back then (there was a brief scare in the 20s that the world was running out of oil, but that went away quickly). I wonder why fascist governments, which sought autarky and did not have oil, didn't pursue electric cars in the 1930s?

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