Technocracy vs. Communism - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The solving of mankind’s problems and abolition of government via technological solutions alone.

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#13188851
Communism: "Let's get rid of government and private property and the economy, and we'll all share things, and people will work instead of screwing around all day because they will feel like working just out of the kindness of their hearts."

Technocracy: "Let's get rid of government and private property and the economy, and we'll all share things, and people will work instead of screwing around all day because they will feel like working, just out of the kindness of their hearts. But it'll be like Star Trek, where it's all like high-tech and shit, and everything that we need will be provided by machines that operate on magic and the power of positive thinking."

Seriously, that's the impression that I'm getting after reading some of this stuff. Can someone explain what I'm missing?
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By Bosnjak
#13231450
Technocracy is in my view a form of Communism, Techno-Communism.

How can this System work when everybody can work as much he wants?



Nobody wants to work, without a reward. O.K. In a Technate would the hole population work in research or science industry, wchich is more interessting then common work.

How could a Technate survive against a Techno-Capitalism or Techno-Fascism, where Researchers have to work up to 8-10 hours? It would become technologicaly inferior.
By Metal Gear
#13231635
The elements of class conflict that exist in Marxist-Leninism don't exist in technocracy.

Most technocrats are hippis. I advocate a techno-fascism.
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By El Gilroy
#13231645
Honestly, technocracy and Communism were never different things to me :eh:

And about the getting people to work part: Work brings rewards and privileges. Also: If nobody works, society goes to hell for economic reasons, which most people don't want. Thusly better rewards if more work necessary, to ensure always enough work force. Additionally automatisation to decrease reliance on human workers.

Blah blah. Many ways.
By Metal Gear
#13232393
Dialectical materialism is not part of Technocracy. Even if technocracy can have a socialist leaning in certain situations.
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By Goldberk
#13237441
Dialectical materialism is not part of Technocracy.


Another plus for technocracy then.
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By MB.
#13250620
echno-fascism.


Techno-Communism.


Guys, they're not the same thing.
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By El Gilroy
#13250657
Bosnjak wrote:How could a Technate survive against a Techno-Capitalism or Techno-Fascism, where Researchers have to work up to 8-10 hours? It would become technologicaly inferior.

By there not being a Techno-Capitalism or Techno-Facism running against the Communist Technate. Competition would have to not be.
By Zerogouki
#13254707
Work brings rewards and privileges.


Not in Communism/Technocracy.

Also: If nobody works, society goes to hell for economic reasons, which most people don't want. Thusly better rewards if more work necessary, to ensure always enough work force.


Yeah. There's a problem with your assertion:

Image
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By El Gilroy
#13256070
A matter of mentality. Rewards might be necessary in the early decades, to keep people working their jobs to keep things going. Over time, those might decrease in amount, maybe even to the utopian point where no more reward is necessary. But that is, of course, to a great part mere wishful thinking. Rewards are very likely necessary for a very long time, and so be it - they must, however, not be excessive or just disproportional.
By Zerogouki
#13267826
Oh, great... putting your faith in the inherent goodness of humanity. What could possibly go wrong with that?

Rewards might be necessary in the early decades... Rewards are very likely necessary for a very long time


Yeah, we already have a system like that. It's called capitalism.
By ninurta
#13268464
All communist regimes have technology in which is used in ruling, so technocracy is communism.
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By grypo
#13268519
All communist regimes have technology in which is used in ruling, so technocracy is communism.

Technocracy isn't really a from of government. It's an idea to govern the use technology within a society, which will, of course, change the way we live, so it will effect government decisions. These issues will undoubtedly need to be addressed within the next few decades as many of our jobs begin to to be turned over to computers and robotics. The ratio of workers to goods and services needed will change dramatically. We can see this happening in certain fields already. The way in which we disperse resources to individuals will change and the days of scarcity economics will have to change with it. Although this may be a long way off, it's a good time to think about it.
Image
http://www.technocracy.ca/simp/man-hour ... ution.html
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By grypo
#13269202
ninurta wrote:It still sounds alot like communism

There are some economic similarities that would be eventual in both, such as the centralization and restructuring of resources, but the scientists came up with idea explicitly to divorce the rules of governing technology from politics and place it with a group of experts, which has also given people the conception that technocracy is an oligarchy of some sort. Its even been compared to the Futurists movement of Fascist Italy, which is a real stretch, but the confusion is understandable. Technocracy could fit within a social democracy, a nationalistic fasces, communism, socialism etc. It is as odds with capitalism, but that is not a form of government either. The main reason for the idea was to deal with the problem I described in my last post, which, the originators thought would lead to an elite class controlling technology and using it to create a scarcity of recourses for a lower class that would no longer be needed in the work force, instead of using technology to end that scarcity, which technology, given the time and careful use, could do in the distant future.
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By MB.
#13274009
Yo COMMUNISM = small communities democratically organizing labour & production.

Yo TECHNOCRACY = government by science.
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By grypo
#13285346
Yo TECHNOCRACY = government by science.


I think a more apt description would be economics ruled by the scientific method. Government, by its nature is an economic re-distributive system, so I may just be being semantic here, but technocracy does not intend to directly effect anything else that a government does, ie social concerns, democratic process.
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By MB.
#13285591
It is not accurate to claim that governments only manage economics.

but technocracy does not intend to directly effect anything else that a government does, ie social concerns, democratic process.


Yes it does- this is categorically not true.
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By grypo
#13285627
It is not accurate to claim that governments only manage economics.

I'm not making that claim, just that governments manage economics as one of its major functions and reasons for existing.
Yes it does- this is categorically not true.

Technocracy is not a government. It is a way to manage economics and resources through the scientific process and the use of technology. Its effects on social and democratic functions are indirect but obvious. It's aim is to divorce the economic system from the politics of government altogether. My use of the word "intend" was incorrect as it does intend to make those social changes.
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By MB.
#13285836
ts effects on social and democratic functions are indirect but obvious.


This is again, not true. A successful technate requires wide-ranging and sweeping reforms to human culture, thought, and philosophy.

In other words, in a technate the 'functions' you mention are modified in a very direct and exceedingly obvious manner.
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