Is Zeitgeist/The Venus Proroject advocators of technocracy? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

The solving of mankind’s problems and abolition of government via technological solutions alone.

Moderator: Kolzene

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#14821872
I don't know much about Zeitgeist, I've only seen 1 or two of their movies. They seem to have embraced TVP after they started for some reason, but I can't say specifically why. I think they just like the idea.

As for TVP, I know that Jacques Fresco was a member of Technocracy Inc. at one time, and then decided to strike out on his own. So it is obvious that he got most of his ideas from there. His presentation of it however seems to me to focus more on style than substance, which is why he's managed to get a lot more publicity than Technocracy has. Personally I have always advocated a combination of the two approaches, but the two groups refuse to work together.
#14821875
So if the movement has so little to do with the movie, then they might want to consider changing their name, as it seems to be doing them little good. Or better yet, if they are so interested in Technocracy and making it happen, they could swing on by technocracy.ca and ask to help. A dozen or two people working seriously on the TKP could have it done in just a few months, and then the Technocracy movement would again be in full swing.
#14460133
Dickydarn wrote:Venus Project rejected Zeitgeist after a clash of ego's/
Peter Joseph Vs. Fresco.

Neither group has anything in common with Technocracy design.
http://venusprojectstolemybaby.blogspot.com/

Venus and Zeitgeist obviously have a lot in common with Technocracy design, it is pretty much identical... A 5 minute read in the free TZM book on their website would get you this conclusion, not sure why you are disinforming. http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/orientation

Dickydarn wrote:Zeitgeist is considered in reliable sources to be a cult.
It is mostly a conspiracy movie originally that morphed into a so called movement.

a 'cult' in 'reliable' sources?
I am part of the local TZM chapter myself and I definately wouldn't consider it to be a cult. We are just a group of ordinary people, fascinated by the idea of a Technocratic society and the way of thinking that comes with that. We come together once per month and answer questions people have, sometimes we gives lectures, etc.

Yes the movement came forth after the conspiracy movie 'Zeitgeist Addendum'. People were asking, how do we go forward, how can we do something about this? That's when Peter Joseph came in touch with J.Fresco and started this movement. The movement has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. The movies are just the founder's personal thinking and does not neccesarily reflect the movement's train of thought, which can be found in the link I gave you.
#14460155
I rather dislike the Venus project as being ineffective. They make a lot of pretty models but the thing that needs to be tackled first is the politics and organization growth. The engineering can be dealt with when it would be feasible to actually build these things.

The Zeitgeist movement annoys me, I tried to watch the movie and something about it really rubbed me the wrong way. Then there was the 9/11 conspiracy crap and I was done with it. I will never trust an organization that wants "technocracy" but then is willing to ignore all the experts who say their pet conspiracy theory is full of bullshit.
#14460165
mikema63 wrote:The Zeitgeist movement annoys me, I tried to watch the movie and something about it really rubbed me the wrong way. Then there was the 9/11 conspiracy crap and I was done with it. I will never trust an organization that wants "technocracy" but then is willing to ignore all the experts who say their pet conspiracy theory is full of bullshit.

Well then the Zeitgeist Movement doesn't annoy you, but the movies do which have little to do with the movement. I suggest reading the orientation guide which truly reflects what the movement is about: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/upl ... 6_by_9.pdf
#14460469
If I still remember Zeitgiest, it had a redicilouse premise. How can technocracy exist with 0 taxes, who is going to built the technocracy then in the first place? And I don't mean just the firms/Services/Research (I mean with a large stretch, you can say the corporation will do it under some miracle condition) but what about schools/Univercities even before those firms are built and how will you implement a full and mandatory University education without a functioning government of sorts not to mention who will build non-profit universities/high schools/schools. There is also a question where are you gonna create your technocracy, which is very similar to Israel situation. Then what to do about Patent law? Copyright infridgements ? How should the intellectual property in a technocracy be distributed.
#14821876
JohnRawls wrote:If I still remember Zeitgiest, it had a redicilouse premise.


I'm a little worried that you are conflating TZM and Technocracy, which are not the same things. If you are not, then great, but I like to be clear as to minimize misunderstandings. In fact, if Wexoch is right, then the movement and the movies by the same name also have little or nothing in common, so please be specific about what you are talking about. I will answer your questions as they relate to Technocracy.

JohnRawls wrote:How can technocracy exist with 0 taxes, who is going to built the technocracy then in the first place?


A technocracy can only be started within an area (most likely a continent like North America) that already has in place the necessary resources, equipment, and trained people to operate it. It would have to be enacted along with the dissolution of the countries already existing there. As for taxes, Technocracy doesn't use money, or private property. All growth and maintenance are part of the total cost in resources for operating the technate.

JohnRawls wrote:And I don't mean just the firms/Services/Research (I mean with a large stretch, you can say the corporation will do it under some miracle condition) but what about schools/Univercities even before those firms are built and how will you implement a full and mandatory University education without a functioning government of sorts not to mention who will build non-profit universities/high schools/schools.


Firstly, there will be no corporations as you know them. All economic activity is performed by a single, continent-wide organization that both produces and distributes goods and services. Therefore schools would fit into that as well.

JohnRawls wrote:There is also a question where are you gonna create your technocracy, which is very similar to Israel situation.


In any area that meets the physical requirements needed to operate the technate (again those being sufficient natural resources, sufficient installed technology, and sufficient trained people to operate that technology) and also where the vast majority of people desire to make it happen. A technocratic nation does not grow from a small size into a bigger one, it instead is more like an 'upgrade' to one or more existing nations provided they qualify.

JohnRawls wrote:Then what to do about Patent law? Copyright infridgements ? How should the intellectual property in a technocracy be distributed.


All unnecessary. A technate can only be operated in an environment of abundance (also called post-scarcity), hence the aforementioned physical requirements. When you are in an environment of abundance, concepts like private property and intellectual property become obsolete, since they are only useful in the context of scarcity. Why bother owning a car when I have access to superior transportation any time I want for free? So for the most part, information would flow pretty freely in a technate, which would greatly enhance innovation. Patents and copyrights exist to help give a creator money to live on (or be "rewarded" by). Since creators would have no worries about their livelihood in a technate, and physical incentives would be impossible anyway, people would be free to create for mostly intrinsic reasons, although extrinsic motivations such as fame and peer respect would of course still exist.
EU-BREXIT

^ Rich is a stealth white nationalist. The EU is[…]

No one cares because it doesn't fit people's polit[…]

The Popular Vote...

It bores me I agree. In fact, I remember callin[…]

Trump's Dumb Economics

So how's Trump doing on the economy? 1. Budget […]