- 11 Aug 2014 07:17
#14449957
So please, straight from the horse's mouth, do tell, how a society which is free can automate systems, group some voluntary collective, and offer everything which is desired, without complete control over its populace and culture. You do realize, the technical elite who erect such a whimsical government will have to come from a post capitalist market, possibly some socialist one (if Marx is correct). Whereas to say, all their wealth and power be derived from everything Technocracy wishes to abolish. So, hypothetically, the technocratic elite will be products of capital greed, and any post capital system or transition toward socialism will be under their guide. Who will control the machine, Kolzene? I am not going to give my government over to robots, especially in the name of humanity, for I will lose my humanity.
You have no real method of implementation. You use this forum as a think tank, where you can mentally masturbate considering Technocracy. Then, to top it off, you claim your system of thought to be free of hyper-unrealistic goals and definitively not utopian. Claiming dissents to be mere trolls or ignorant people who need to go read more elsewhere, so they too can see the light. Man, are you brainwashed by this idea, this technocracy? I have to ask, because you remind me of the fascists and the communists, both tend to be totalitarian bullies trying to indoctrinate the hapless.
In short, I do not find your Technocracy desirable. Even if it is possible, I do not find it desirable. So, if this thread is to promote the desirability of Technocracy then I consider it a poor outlet for critical discussion. Ergo one failed thread. This, of course, is my opinion here in this thread on an internet forum. Nothing more.
Here is one quote from someone with the power to help implement Technocracy.
"The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities." 1970, Zbigniew Brzezinski
^ The kind of people who will run this Technocracy, surely.
Here is how this thread started (only for those who believe in Technocracy)
Now we backtrack with
Kolzene should rephrase the initial print and it should look like this
After, one may wonder, what is the point of this thread, beyond promoting fantastic utopian rhetoric?
Technocracy is not utopian, because it does not claim to solve all problems. There will still be crime, there will still be disease, there will still be dissension, and fighting, and accidents, and disagreements, and heartbreak, and people hating each other, and possibly even war. The point is that there will just be less of that stuff, and more of what most people consider the good stuff. I know it may seem "fanciful" to many, because the claims are so big, but that does not make it utopian, or perfect.You're right, this may make it a dystopia. Why is Technocracy desirable? Because you claim it to be desirable? This totalitarian technocratic regime- followed by technophiles, controlled by a group of technical elite (private corporations most likely) backed by the centralised legal system of government, is it free? I'd like to know, given you, Kolzene, tend to be a mouthpiece for the party. ;)
So please, straight from the horse's mouth, do tell, how a society which is free can automate systems, group some voluntary collective, and offer everything which is desired, without complete control over its populace and culture. You do realize, the technical elite who erect such a whimsical government will have to come from a post capitalist market, possibly some socialist one (if Marx is correct). Whereas to say, all their wealth and power be derived from everything Technocracy wishes to abolish. So, hypothetically, the technocratic elite will be products of capital greed, and any post capital system or transition toward socialism will be under their guide. Who will control the machine, Kolzene? I am not going to give my government over to robots, especially in the name of humanity, for I will lose my humanity.
You have no real method of implementation. You use this forum as a think tank, where you can mentally masturbate considering Technocracy. Then, to top it off, you claim your system of thought to be free of hyper-unrealistic goals and definitively not utopian. Claiming dissents to be mere trolls or ignorant people who need to go read more elsewhere, so they too can see the light. Man, are you brainwashed by this idea, this technocracy? I have to ask, because you remind me of the fascists and the communists, both tend to be totalitarian bullies trying to indoctrinate the hapless.
In short, I do not find your Technocracy desirable. Even if it is possible, I do not find it desirable. So, if this thread is to promote the desirability of Technocracy then I consider it a poor outlet for critical discussion. Ergo one failed thread. This, of course, is my opinion here in this thread on an internet forum. Nothing more.
Here is one quote from someone with the power to help implement Technocracy.
"The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities." 1970, Zbigniew Brzezinski
^ The kind of people who will run this Technocracy, surely.
Here is how this thread started (only for those who believe in Technocracy)
High standard of living for every citizen
Free, top-quality health care whenever you need it
Free, top-quality education whenever you want it
Wide range of high quality products for consumption
No low-quality strategies normally used to increase profits, like planned obsolescence
Products automatically delivered directly into your home using Utilities Distribution Planning
Wide range of foods available, either as ingredients or cooked meals, delivered into your home or to public eating areas (equivalent of restaurants)
Clean, comfortable homes for everyone, that are fireproof, sound proof, and pest proof
All amenities within walking distance for normally abled people, and for others, automatic transportation in the form of elevators, moving sidewalks, etc.
Economic security because income guaranteed as right of citizenship
Income more than you can consume, so no worries about budgeting or running out
Free transportation anywhere on in the Technate, that is fast and comfortable
Nearly unlimited range of recreation opportunities (travel, parks, hobbies, common interest groups, etc.)
All media consumption free with no worries of copyright infringement
Opportunities for career limited only by your innate abilities
No time wasted on legal entanglements and contracts, property management, taxes, finances, etc.
Greater amount of free time than found for most people today, to spend on hobbies, entertainment, self-improvement, life-goals, travel, and relationships
No need for bargain hunting, coupon clipping, or comparison shopping
No loyalty or rewards cards
No credit cards, debit cards, cheques, or any other banking needed
No need to be jealous of another's material possessions
No need to define yourself by your possessions
No need for hoarding or stocking up
Food made as healthy as possible (no harmful pesticides, growth hormones, etc.)
No traffic jams, parking problems, or other automobile hassles
A lot of sources of modern-day stress eliminated (as above)
Benefits for society:
No pollution
No poverty, homelessness, or people lacking education or food
95% reduction in crime compared to today
No political fighting or other troubles in administration
No economic fluctuations like inflation, recessions, or depression
No economic need to go to war (war for oil, other resources, etc.)
No economic meddling in other country's affairs (IMF, WTO, etc.)
Best defence capabilities on the planet
No censorship, discrimination (racial, sexual, or otherwise), or other restrictions on human rights
Standardization means no problems with competing and closed standards or formats (computers, media, electronics, etc.)
No annoying and intrusive advertising everywhere
No corporate or political influence of public opinion
No financial or political interferences in news reporting
Everything possible is recyclable and environmentally friendly
Sustainable economy
Now we backtrack with
Technocracy is not utopian, because it does not claim to solve all problems. There will still be crime, there will still be disease, there will still be dissension, and fighting, and accidents, and disagreements, and heartbreak, and people hating each other, and possibly even war. The point is that there will just be less of that stuff, and more of what most people consider the good stuff. I know it may seem "fanciful" to many, because the claims are so big, but that does not make it utopian, or perfect.
Kolzene should rephrase the initial print and it should look like this
Average standard of living for every citizen
Free, average health care whenever you need it
Free, average education whenever you want it
Decent range of average quality products for consumption
Some low-quality strategies normally used to increase profits, like planned obsolescence
Products automatically delivered directly into your home using Utilities Distribution Planning
Wide range of foods available, either as ingredients or cooked meals, delivered into your home or to public eating areas (equivalent of restaurants)
Clean, comfortable homes for everyone, that are fireproof, sound proof, pest proof, and imagination proof
All amenities within walking distance for normally abled people, and for others, automatic transportation in the form of elevators, moving sidewalks, etc.
Economic security because the state owns you
Income more than you can consume, so no worries about budgeting or running out
Some free transportation anywhere on in the Technate, that is fast and comfortable
Nearly unlimited range of recreation opportunities (travel, parks, hobbies, common interest groups, etc.)
All media consumption free with no worries of copyright infringement, because it is all propaganda
Opportunities for career limited only by your innate abilities, we think
Some time wasted on legal entanglements and contracts, property management, taxes, finances, etc.
Greater amount of free time than found for most people today, to spend on hobbies, entertainment, self-improvement, life-goals, travel, and relationships
Some need for bargain hunting, coupon clipping, or comparison shopping
Some loyalty or rewards cards
No credit cards, debit cards, cheques, or any other banking needed, we own you
No need to be jealous of another's material possessions, we brainwashed you
No need to define yourself by your possessions, we brainwashed you
Some need for hoarding or stocking up
Food made as healthy as possible (no harmful pesticides, growth hormones, etc.)
Some traffic jams, parking problems, or other automobile hassles
Some sources of modern-day stress eliminated (as above)
Benefits for society:
Some pollution
Some poverty, homelessness, or people lacking education or food
Some reduction in crime compared to today
Some political fighting or other troubles in administration
Some economic fluctuations like inflation, recessions, or depression
Some economic need to go to war (war for oil, other resources, etc.)
Some economic meddling in other country's affairs (IMF, WTO, etc.)
Best defence capabilities on the planet
Some censorship, discrimination (racial, sexual, or otherwise), or other restrictions on human rights
Standardization means no problems with competing and closed standards or formats (computers, media, electronics, etc.)
Some annoying and intrusive advertising everywhere
Some corporate or political influence of public opinion
Some financial or political interferences in news reporting
Somethings are recyclable and environmentally friendly
Kinda Sustainable economy
After, one may wonder, what is the point of this thread, beyond promoting fantastic utopian rhetoric?