Universal Basic Income & Purchasing Power - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The solving of mankind’s problems and abolition of government via technological solutions alone.

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#14788303
mikema63 wrote:From the people making an extra couple hundred billion by firing hard working Americans to save on their wages?

In a grander sense the program on the whole on a national level could have a negative income tax that garuntees 15000 a year by simply moving all the money from our other various welfare programs into it with no additional cost or tax. Then states and cities with higher costs of living can consider their owl local programs.


pipe dream
#14788307
Stormsmith wrote:If we nationalised natural resources, eg oil, forest, minerals etc., we could supply a livable income and run the government.


LOL how are you going to do that?

I see

So what would people exist for, the next handout? Would effort be outlawed?

Please do not double-post.

-TIG Edit :borg:
#14788310
We are literally in a subforum about an entirely speculative form of government that has never existed. All of the sudden you only care about what is politically feasible in the next decade?

Clearly your out of substantive arguments.

Technocracy relies largely on the theory that as technology advances there literally will not be enough jobs to employ everyone all the time. So usually there are cycles where portions of the population work for a certain period and don't for other periods.

perhaps you should consider reading up on a topic before bumbling in and making a fool out of yourself.
#14788319
mikema63 wrote:We are literally in a subforum about an entirely speculative form of government that has never existed. All of the sudden you only care about what is politically feasible in the next decade?

Clearly your out of substantive arguments.

Technocracy relies largely on the theory that as technology advances there literally will not be enough jobs to employ everyone all the time. So usually there are cycles where portions of the population work for a certain period and don't for other periods.

perhaps you should consider reading up on a topic before bumbling in and making a fool out of yourself.


So your basically playing Dungeons and Dragons "a fantasy game" and you are saying I am making a fool out of myself.

I figured that out after your first post on the subject. No need to be a pompous grumpy jackass, telling people to get off your fantasy game lawn.
#14788484
Hong Wu wrote:False equivalence between the creation of the internet and basic universal income.

People will have more oppourtunities to collaborate and focus on big projects if they're not wasting time trying to figure out how to put food on the table.

Harry Potter and the Beatles are hardly important compared to the other things, fundamental to human nature, our evolution of form and existence, that having a basic income might call into question.

Music and literature aren't important to you? What drab lives those on the alt-right must lead and how challenged they must be by existential questions when they have no poets or artists to refer to.
#14788502
Do you mean when the technocratic and transhumanism global corporate dystopia is created I too can live off of chattel state corporate welfare as a sharecropper? Awesome!

I wonder with a universal basic income put on state corporate welfare living in total captivity if I could afford a bowl of rice, my best bet is probably not.
#14788543
AFAIK wrote:People will have more oppourtunities to collaborate and focus on big projects if they're not wasting time trying to figure out how to put food on the table.


Music and literature aren't important to you? What drab lives those on the alt-right must lead and how challenged they must be by existential questions when they have no poets or artists to refer to.

There would still be poets and artists. Just maybe not the specific ones you mentioned. I think it's shallow to say that we need universal income because the Harry Potter author was a "welfare queen" as if having Harry Potter is more important than all of the other things that might be implicated.
#14788545
Potemkin wrote:Society can function perfectly well without being able to answer any of these Big Questions.

Sure it can and it has like you pointed out. What I ment is, that when the robots finally arrive and start doing everybodys work, taking away the jobs from people and if our governments have had our best intrests at heart, they hopefully introduced some kind of basic income, then it will start to raise these questions among the citizens who before have always been too busy working and spending to have the time to think about these things.

These are also the reasons why I think basic income, if introduced, will just be a brief, passing thing.
I mean, don't you think if everyone starts getting money "for nothing" from the state, wont that just eventually erode the whole idea of wealth in sense of a currency?
People born into a system with basic income will see money as a completely different thing, it'll just be a background noise for them, while they are truly living, having not to worry about something man made like that.
#14788606
@Hong Wu
What are you hinting at? Why are you being so vague?

I've listed specific indirect benefits that derive from welfare systems. What counter argument can you present that has more meaning than a casual dismissal?
#14788668
kuu wrote:...if everyone starts getting money "for nothing" from the state, wont that just eventually erode the whole idea of wealth in sense of a currency?
People born into a system with basic income will see money as a completely different thing, it'll just be a background noise for them, while they are truly living, having not to worry about something man made like that.


A universal automated production system (of the type we are postulating) is probably inevitable in the long term, barring catastrophic breakdown. The really odd feature of such a system is that it is radically deflationary (cost of production plummets). This means the value of financial instruments held by the elite become virtually worthless.

This is the origin of FARTS (Forced ARTifical Scarcity). The value of financial assets can only be maintained by limiting the availability of both goods and employment opportunity. FARTS is structurally embedded in Western economies and will be extremely difficult to counter.
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