P2P in a technate - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The solving of mankind’s problems and abolition of government via technological solutions alone.

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By Haraldur
#582639
Might a technate set up its own pier-to-pier network like eMule of Kazaa, and use it as a cheap way of distibuting information and entertainment to the masses? This would mean that the majority of software and media in a technate could be freely distributed without physical copies being made, so conserving resources.

If there was such a P2P network set up within the technate for all its citizens, would people outside the technate have access to it, violating copyright laws in their own countries?
By Haraldur
#593631
Sorry this reply is so late.

I have imagined that it would be possible that if, say, there was a rock band in the technate, who wanted to spread their music around to be enjoyed by the other citizens. They could put some of their pieces of music onto the network with a description, maybe, and put it available for download. The description would be on its own page, and possibly there would be reviews by other citizens giving their comments.

And like in a P2P network, people would be downloading from other people´s home computers, rather than servers alone, which would help spread out the demand.

In a technate, people would have a lot of free time on their hands, and it can be expected that a lot of this time would be spent doing creative things. And things like this which are on computers could be spread out across the technate, so that large numbers of people can appreciate the efforts of these people, and these people will be happy in that knowledge. This would be in addition to other uses.

Another subject: I have seen it quite a few times on a computer screen that Technocracy has not worked out the details and will only do so shortly before or during the process of achieving a technate. However, I think it is important that at least some of the details are worked out. As you know, at the rate we are going, there will be a major ecological disaster in possibly as early as 30 years. I would expect this would result in a real situation of scarcity, so technocracy would be impossible. Also, I think that technocracy is the only situation where it would be possible to seriously improve the way things are going now in this respect. And since a technate might take 20 years to assemble, I think it is imperitive that it gets as much support as it can, as quickly as it can, if its plans are ever going to be tested. And I know myself that I prefer to have some solid details to consider when considering government.

Not to mention it would probably be doubly difficult with no oil...

On that note: How would the problem of oil price be overcome during the creation of a technate, when, initially at least, most technology would rely on oil? (Although I must admit I am quite ignorant on the amount of oil in North America itself). Technocracy meeting OPEC? It does not sound a good working relationship.
By Haraldur
#597987
Like I said, I imagine that the Technate's network architecture will be far more advanced and intelligent than mere "server-client" and "peer to peer". It could, for example, intelligently balance changing traffic loads across the whole network, much in the same way our power grid does now. This could in effect make every node a "peer".


Well, I suppose I can only think of it in terms of those two systems.

The first stage of any engineering design project is to first lay down the requirements. In this case this would include current population and distribution, power requirements based on current equipment, resource requirements for manufacturing, etc. Second is to determine what resources are available. As you are no doubt aware, these two factors (or rather, set of factors) are both changing quite rapidly, and any calculations done based on current numbers would be useless in as little as a year.


I expect a little could be done based on current trends, like people do now.

Also, small details on the small picture could be worked out for things which will not change much or will still have some fundamental things the same. For example, some details to please the environmentalists (on the recycling and energy efficiency would put them ina good frame of mind for the rest of it).

Now this doesn't mean that we can't do a little projectional work to be able to give people a better idea of what to expect. We did this in the 1920s and that's when we came up with the numbers such as the 16 hour work week, etc. But, that is a side project. Our main goal is to make sure that people are getting informed, because as you point out, our time is limited, and we need to do all that we can to make sure that enough people are properly informed about Technocracy so that they can make it happen. If we do not reach this unknown "threshold" number, then I'm afraid that we can say goodbye to our chances at Technocracy for quite a few centuries, at least.


I do not know, but I have always been under the impression that it is easier to gain people's support quickly with small specialised promises rather than describing a whole system to them (which, after all, is quite hard to fit on a banner or put into a slogan).

as we will still be using inefficient technology and cities,


I know, so the time to get off the oil use is the most imperitive to work out to figure out quite how urgent this is.

That stage may take 20 years or more.


In the article I got that from, I must either have misinterpreted what I read, misread it, or both. It comes when you read such documentation late into the night.

What little we can say about Technocratic foreign policy has already been mentioned in places such as the TTCD booklet and the Technocracy FAQ.


I have read everything directly technocracy related on technocracy.ca, and I am half way through technocracy.org, and I am deliberately leaving behemoths like TTCD and TTSC to last.

It occurs to me that, since its conception was long before the concept of global warming was well known, Technocracy Inc. is disadvantaged in this situation, of having to be in a hurry. I think this might be the case because, from what I have read, Technocracy planned to help in building a technate after an economic collapse, where the physical things would still be there, and people would see that, but see that the Price System prevented them from enjoying those resources. However, originally there would have been no plan b for a situation when a serious loss of resources and the ability to use them was looming almost inevitably in just a few decades. Technocracy now finds itself to be no longer in a situation to wait for the Price System's inevitable collapse, because now the Price system will collapse not because of something arcane, but because of something physical in the real world, a situation for which it is unprepared.[/speculation]

Do you know where I might find information on what the Technical Alliance did, what statistics it looked through, in its energy survey, and what things exactly, in detail, would be needed to set up a technate? I am interested because I would like to, based on any statistics on the EU, or the EU plus some neighboring areas, roughly guess as to whether a technate would be feasible in Europe with a better guess than just the assumption of "Yes." I am, after all, a citizen of two European countries (one in the EU), and, I believe (rightly or wrongly) it might be marginally easier to convince people in Europe about technocracy, because I believe (rightly or wrongly) that people in Europe are generally more left wing and that there are more left wingers and communists and I believe (rightly or wrongly) that those on the left are more likely to find technocracy appealing.

The reson I believe that people on the left find technocracy more appealing is this: At my college (high school) I talk sometimes with someone who is a socialist, or identifies himself as such at least. I told him a little about technocracy and he seemed very interested. I told him to check technocracy.ca, considering it has a beginner's page, and he said he would. Today I had another discussion with him, and he had some questions, which I attempted, with some success, to answer (but then he had to go, so he still thinks noone will work if they get an "income" anyway), and he still seemed interested.

Then again, he is studying all three of the sciences...

Given that students (in the UK at least) are the people most likely to join groups which are viewed as "radical", I am interested in what proportion of members who join Technocracy Inc. join when in university, and whether you target any of your efforts of persuasion towards university campuses, especially science departments (since that seems logical).
By Haraldur
#605421
Technocracy is prepared enough. Remember that is it not Technocrats that will be designing and installing the Technate, but rather the experts in various fields that have come together in the manner that Technocracy has outlined for them. Therefor any such problems would be for them to work out.


I meant more on the convincing people problem. The idea is to wait for the inevitable collapse of the Price system, and then it will be easy to convince everybody. However, it seems possible that natural disaster might come before that time, so you now face the difficulty of trying to convince people who are living in a Price System which still appears to work, before it collapses due to natural disaster rather than due to itself.

three existing global movements


Who are they? Do they have websites?

If you'd like more info on that, sign up on the forums at www.technocracy.ca, and ask about it. At the very least you may be interested in the European Technocracy movement that has already begun there.


I would be very interested.

The lack of a single, unifying language is but one barrier to this degree of unification.


Indeed. I assume that in North America English would dominate despite the French and Spanish speakers.

In the EU itself, English is becoming more frequently used, by all but the French, especially in the new members, so the problem is diminishing in that respect.
By Tangerine
#605447
There's a European Technocracy movement?! And yes, it seems English will inevitably be a worldwide language in the coming decades - the majority of educated people speak English as either their first or second language already.
By Haraldur
#606716
Nevertheless, the term "Ecotechnocracy" annoys me. EuroTech (European Technocracy) would be more logical, and would give the excuse of using the EU's blue colour in the symbols or background of the flag, rather than green, which does not seem to work in symbols, for me at least. It also implies that environmentalism is an explicit part of technocracy, rather than the reality of it being implicit.[/rant]
By Tangerine
#606913
I don't mind the name Ecotechnocracy. It sounds like a fusion between nature and technology, which is exactly what Technocracy is. The huge ecological and environmental benefits of Technocracy is possibly the main advantage to Technocracy that the populace would appreciate and support at this moment in time, and will perpetually support no matter what the future holds. Any ways if we're ranting about names, Technocracy isn't that great a name any way ;).

I think Technocracy’s plan to tackle the environmental problems posed by the price-system will be what opens the populaces’ hearts and eyes to the further benefits of Technocracy. Our environment is the probably the only predicament every educated person in the world shares right now. Technocracy is the only full-proof, believable plan to tackle the environment that’s around at this moment in time.

On another note if we somehow successfully illustrated the environmental benefits of Technocracy to people who are environmentally-aware, I’m sure we could dramatically increase Technocracy’s, Ecotechnocracy’s, whatever’s, membership and probably get a few hard working, intelligent people on our side.

Can I also ask what exactly you guys are planning to do once Peak Oil becomes publicly aware…?
By Haraldur
#606986
The name ecotechnocracy implies that just technocracy has less thought for environmental issues, which is wrong.
By Haraldur
#607004
I have done a "EuroTech" flag in Art's Laboratory.
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By cyb3rsamurai
#637583
this is all very interesting. Please excuse my ignorance when i ask this question, but i've not yet looked over the other technocracy pages.

Why does there need to be these "technates" which I'm asuming are equivalent to states? can't we just call the world as a whole the property of all humans and all try and work together unitedly. or is the technate only the step between our current nations and a complete unification?

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