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#14933698
Missus V. Spolia. wrote:Rioting over sports is stupid and is something white people should be ashamed of.

I also think its sad when teams aren't representative of their people. I mean, a team is supposed to be like a symbolic army of your people fighting other countries in "sport" so its weird that they aren't representative ethnically at all. It also seems a bit cliche and so I don't know why liberals don't see making teams black is not somehow racist too.


Perhaps you are confused about what racism is.

I mean, its almost like countries and teams are raising racing horses just to win games, they live in ghettos and get a chance to succeed only by being conscripts in sports with their superior former-slave genetics.

If anything seems racist, its that.


Yes, your lack of understanding about how genetics works does seem racist.
#14933703
Pants-of-dog wrote:Perhaps you are confused about what racism is.


Forcing people into a media promoted stereotype isn't racist?

Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, your lack of understanding about how genetics works does seem racist.


I've grew up on a farm, I know how selective breeding works.
#14933705
Missus V. Spolia. wrote:Forcing people into a media promoted stereotype isn't racist?


Previously you were complaining about how few white people are good at sports. Were you instead arguing that black people are forced to become really good at sports?

I've grew up on a farm, I know how selective breeding works.


If you think blacks were selectively bred for sports, please provide evidence for this claim.

This should be funny.
#14933711
I said they were selectively bred to be slaves, and we use that genetic background to our advantage by taking the best of them out of the ghettos to be our entertainers in sports. The token black sports player is a stereotype that we promote instead of having our teams actually represent our country's demographic.

Thats seems pretty racist.
#14933714
Missus V. Spolia. wrote:I said they were selectively bred to be slaves, and we use that genetic background to our advantage by taking the best of them out of the ghettos to be our entertainers in sports. The token black sports player is a stereotype that we promote instead of having our teams actually represent our country's demographic.

Thats seems pretty racist.


1. Please provide evidence for your claim.
2. Please show that the French national soccer team was a product of said breeding program.
3. There are no token black players in the French soccer team. Or perhaps you do not know what “token” means.
4. You seem to be supporting affirmative action quotas for white people who are bad at soccer. Is this what you are proposing?
#14933719
Are you joking, what do you want evidence for? That the west had slaves that we selectively bred to work in fields?

That is common knowledge, I am not here to be your elementary history teacher, I have enough children of my own that I have to teach the basics too.

Everyone knows what I mean by the "token black guy" in movies, and the same applies to sports but in a different way, its a stereotype.

I never said that the french soccer team had a breeding program, thats silly and I am talking about sports in general.

I think that groups that represent the country should look like the country, thats just my belief based on common-sense. Its odd when the french team is not french at all and I doubt i'm the only one who ever thought that or that thinking that automatically means I'm racist. I would say the same thing about the Nigerian team. I'm sure if every player on the Nigerian team were white, people would find that odd too and you would probably call it racist.

I am not supporting affirmative action, I am simply saying that it seems odd for teams representing a people or country to not be representative of that country. Thats all.
#14933722
France didn't have chattel slavery.

Slavery began fading out of western Europe around the middle ages before the peak or even large scale expansion of colonial empires.

Colonial slavery and chattel slavery are very different from each other.
There might have been indeed attempts at selective breading in the US with slaves, but that is not the case in Europe as those types of plantations and large scale slavery didn't exist inside of Europe (noting that colonial empires while did use slavery on many occasions, didn't use it significantly back home.)
Last edited by anasawad on 18 Jul 2018 18:34, edited 1 time in total.
#14933724
Missus V. Spolia. wrote:I also think its sad when teams aren't representative of their people. I mean, a team is supposed to be like a symbolic army of your people fighting other countries in "sport" so its weird that they aren't representative ethnically at all. It also seems a bit cliche and so I don't know why liberals don't see making teams black is not somehow racist too.

I think that's a very apt description of national teams as "symbolic armies", they are just so. Of course in games, as symbolic wars, actual victories are better than symbolic ones so if hired in foreign mercenaries will do better than native conscripts then why not? You have heard of the French Foreign Legion? Well this is the sporting equivalent.
#14933727
anasawad wrote:France didn't have chattel slavery.


Where did Haiti come from then? Magic?

Plus didn't the french have a code noir or something specifically for slave-relations?
#14933729
Thanks @SolarCross, for your comments. I am glad you have such good sense.

My husband has mentioned you before as "one of the good guys" on PoFo. :D
#14933732
@SolarCross
True, as I did say in the edit.
Colonial empires did use slavery, though not significantly on their own soil, unlike the US.

@Missus V. Spolia.
Haiti isn't in France or Europe to that matter.

The people who were enslaved there have their descendants still living there, not in Europe.
#14933733
But wasn't Alexandre Dumas (my husband's second favorite story author) like half black from the french colonies, or his dad was, or something?

So, its not like the french didn't get blacks from their colonies, I mean, thats like saying there are no indians or pakistanis in the UK. lol
#14933735
They did, however mostly during the 20th century which if we were to look at the dates, after slavery was abolished.
And mostly not from the parts where there were slavery.

The UK has many people from the Indian subcontinent, there was hardly much slavery or British led slavery in there.
The French have many people from the greater Maghreb region during and after World War 2, however there were no slave plantations or anything of the sort there by France, infact far from it.

Colonialism and slavery are two different things, and although colonial empires did use slavery on occassions, they didn't use it at their own soil, nor did they import the decendants of former slaves to their countries.
The Uk took many migrants from India and Pakistan due to them fighting in WW2, and France took many migrants from the Maghreb due to them also fighting in WW2, not due to slavery.
#14933736
Missus V. Spolia. wrote:Are you joking, what do you want evidence for? That the west had slaves that we selectively bred to work in fields?


Yes, if that is your claim. I want evidence of selective breeding.

That is common knowledge, I am not here to be your elementary history teacher, I have enough children of my own that I have to teach the basics too.


The fact that you think it is true and teach it to kids does not mean it is actually true and applicable. Even if it were true that US slaveowners did this, it would have no effect on the French national soccer team.

Everyone knows what I mean by the "token black guy" in movies, and the same applies to sports but in a different way, its a stereotype.


Yes, a token cast member is someone who is made part of the group solely to signal diversity and not because of their actual skill or value.

Since these young black men won the World Cup, it is obvious they were selected for their skill and not for tokenism.

I never said that the french soccer team had a breeding program, thats silly and I am talking about sports in general.


So we agree that your claim about selective breeding is irrelevant.

I think that groups that represent the country should look like the country, thats just my belief based on common-sense. Its odd when the french team is not french at all and I doubt i'm the only one who ever thought that or that thinking that automatically means I'm racist. I would say the same thing about the Nigerian team. I'm sure if every player on the Nigerian team were white people would find that odd too and you would probably call it racist.

I am not supporting affirmative action, I am simply saying that it seems odd for teams representing a people or country to not be representative of that country. Thats all.


Do you think that only white people can be French?
#14933738
I guess I don't understand what the criticism is, I said that blacks were bred as slaves, this is true of France too even if it was in their colonies. So french-speaking blacks, or algerians or whatever that are co-opted for sports fall under the same point I would make about blacks in the NFL.

Arguing over where the slavery took place is kinda besides the point, its an unimportant detail to what I am saying.

Blacks were selectively bred under slavery or in colonial labor camps, and white countries take advantage of that in creating sports teams for their own entertainment.

I don't see whats so controversial about this, its literally right before our eyes on the television. Its unavoidable.
#14933743
Missus V. Spolia. wrote:Thanks @SolarCross, for your comments. I am glad you have such good sense.

My husband has mentioned you before as "one of the good guys" on PoFo. :D

You are too kind. I do try to orientate myself to the light, if only to work on my tan.

anasawad wrote:True, as I did say in the edit.
Colonial empires did use slavery, though not significantly on their own soil, unlike the US.

The US was a colony itself though, one that went its own way but a colony none the less.

Europe under the influence of Christianity came down against the ancient practice of chattel slavery from the 9th century or so. When Europeans began migrating out to far corners of the world following the age of exploration they left some of their Christian morals behind and began practising slavery again. The French expats / colonists were as bad as any other european expats for this. The authorities back in the european heartlands were in a bit of a dilemma over slavery because on one hand they quite wanted to keep with their Christian principles and ban slavery in the colonies just as it was banned in the homelands but on the other hand they wanted to keep the colonies from ceding away and going independent which they would do if their slavery dependant mode of living was interfered with.
Last edited by SolarCross on 18 Jul 2018 19:30, edited 1 time in total.
#14933744
@Pants-of-dog,

I'm not giving you a lesson on slavery. So no.

My husband has told me stories about how you demand evidence for stupid stuff just to bog down debate, especially when he is clearly kicking your ass.

and as for being french.....You can be any color and be a french citizen because governments don't give a shit about their own historic peoples anymore, so whatev.

But I am of Dutch and Irish descent primarily and my if I meet a black dude who claims to be dutch or Irish, i find that funny, but not actually true. The french are not an African people, that is also common sense, just as Japanese people aren't black. There are differences, and to say otherwise is just insane.
#14933748
Missus V. Spolia. wrote:I guess I don't understand what the criticism is, I said that blacks were bred as slaves, this is true of France too even if it was in their colonies. So french-speaking blacks, or algerians or whatever that are co-opted for sports fall under the same point I would make about blacks in the NFL.

Arguing over where the slavery took place is kinda besides the point, its an unimportant detail to what I am saying.


Please provide evidence that black slaves of French people were selectively bred to be better athletes.

Blacks were selectively bred under slavery or in colonial labor camps, and white countries take advantage of that in creating sports teams for their own entertainment.

I don't see whats so controversial about this, its literally right before our eyes on the television. Its unavoidable.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_b ... ted_States

    Slave breeding in the United States includes any practice of slave ownership that aimed to systematically influence the reproduction of slaves in order to increase the wealth of slaveholders.[1] Slave breeding included coerced sexual relations between male and female slaves, promoting pregnancies of slaves, and favoring female slaves who could produce a relatively large number of children.[1] The purpose of slave breeding was to acquire new slaves without incurring the cost of purchase, and to fill labor shortages caused by the termination of the Atlantic slave trade.[2]

    Selective breeding between slaves with the aim of developing particular physical traits was uncommon however,[3] as most slaves were unrestricted in their choice of sexual partners.[4]

Please note that the bolded phrase disproves your claim. You are incorrect.

Missus V. Spolia. wrote:@Pants-of-dog,

I'm not giving you a lesson on slavery. So no.


It is true that you are not giving me a lesson on slavery.

Instead, it is I who is educating you.

Please note that the evidence disproves your claim.

My husband has told me stories about how you demand evidence for stupid stuff just to bog down debate, especially when he is clearly kicking your ass.


Yes, he also makes ahistorical claims.

and as for being french.....You can be any color and be a french citizen because governments don't give a shit about their own historic peoples anymore, so whatev.

But I am of Dutch and Irish descent primarily and my if I meet a black dude who claims to be dutch or Irish, i find that funny, but not actually true. The french are not an African people, that is also common sense, just as Japanese people aren't black. There are differences, and to say otherwise is just insane.


So the team is French, and your problem is with their skin colour?

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