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By Godstud
#15010293
This has nothing to do with the sources I posted that show that in 2013 and indeed, to this day, smuggling continues.

You're wrong, @Hindsite, and your source doesn't change anything. In fact, it only shows that operation "Fast and Furious" that failed. That wouldn't be the first time this has happened.

This accounts for 1,400 weapons "lost", in 2010, not for hundreds of thousands that continue to move South... even as we talk about it.

March 8, 2019
U.S. Gun Makers Send Weapons South As Migrants Flee North
Experts say the Trump administration's push to weaken oversight of gun exports could worsen the Central American refugee crisis

In early February, the Trump administration finalized a rule change that will make the deals even easier — ending congressional oversight of many overseas gun sales. The president is set to move the export control process from the State Department to the Commerce Department, which is charged first and foremost with increasing sales for American companies. As a result, bureaucrats will no longer have to notify Congress of many gun sales worth $1 million or more. The only thing keeping the change from coming into force is a hold placed by Democratic Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey, and experts are not sure how long he can keep the rule from taking effect.

“The fact that the murder rate has gone up so much over the last several years should be an indicator that this is not the time to focus on the profits for gun companies, rather than the safety of the citizens of these countries,” said Representative Norma Torres of California, a native of Guatemala and the founder of the House Central America Caucus.

“Traveling to Mexico and the Northern Triangle and talking to politicians there, this is the No. 1 topic they bring to our attention,” she said, referring to Northern Triangle countries of Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador.

The United States is the largest supplier of guns globally, so it makes sense that it would dominate the market in its own backyard, according to the analyst Nicholas Marsh, who tracked the U.N. data for the Norwegian Initiative on Small Arms Transfers, a nongovernmental organization. Geographical proximity reduces shipping costs, making exports to neighboring countries more profitable.

https://www.thetrace.org/2019/03/americ ... rica-colt/
By Hindsite
#15010299
Godstud wrote:This accounts for 1,400 weapons "lost", in 2010, not for hundreds of thousands that continue to move South... even as we talk about it.

Your reference doesn't mention any illegal selling or smuggling of guns. The TRACE was established in 2015 with seed money from the gun control advocacy group Everytown for Gun Safety, which was founded by former New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg. Obviously, that reporting is going to give a left-wing biased slant on the subject.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15010300
You have yet to provide proof that the smuggling has stopped. You cannot do that, so the information, no matter how old it might be, is still relevant. You also, purposefully, ignore the more recent sources I provide, which also shows that you cannot defend your "claim".
By Hindsite
#15010303
Godstud wrote:You have yet to provide proof that the smuggling has stopped. You cannot do that, so the information, no matter how old it might be, is still relevant. You also, purposefully, ignore the more recent sources I provide, which also shows that you cannot defend your "claim".

You have not provide any proof that gun smuggling is continuing.
User avatar
By ingliz
#15010304
BigSteve wrote:So your solution would be to take guns away from law abiding citizens so only the criminals have them.

Don't be silly.

I have so many guns my wife refuses to have another ugly gun safe in the house. It was only after much negotiation I persuaded her to let me have the pretty Italian gun cabinet (armoured glass, lights, and green baize).


:lol:
Last edited by ingliz on 06 Jun 2019 08:59, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15010307
Hindsite wrote:You have not provide any proof that gun smuggling is continuing.
If you totally ignore the sources I have provided, then you could come up with that conclusion. I have provided sources, however, so your assertion is patently false.

The Link Between America’s Lax Gun Laws and the Violence That Fuels Immigration
March 22, 2018
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... mmigration

Stop Enabling Latin America's Gun Addiction
The U.S. can change a historic pattern of irresponsible arms sales driving regional violence.
https://www.americasquarterly.org/conte ... -addiction

New Data Reinforces Link Between Guns, Violence in Latin America
AUGUST 14, 2017
New US government data tracking the international flow of firearms provides additional evidence that guns remain a driving force behind high levels of violence and insecurity in Latin America.

The National Tracing Center (NTC) of the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) released new firearms trace data on August 8. The data covered the Bahamas, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, and Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean; Belize, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Panama in Central America; and also Mexico.

For each region, pistols were the most common type of firearm that authorities traced. Of 2,340 firearms traced in the Caribbean, almost two-thirds were pistols. In Central America and Mexico, that figure was more than 50 percent.

However, there were differences in individual countries. In Haiti, for instance, shotguns were the most common type of firearm traced by the ATF, followed by pistols.

The majority of the weapons traced in the Caribbean and Mexico were sourced from the United States. In Central America, on the other hand, roughly 60 percent of the weapons traced were determined to be from non-US suppliers.
The ATF figures are only representative of the sample of the guns that were traced, and may not correlate with overall patterns in each country or region.

https://www.insightcrime.org/news/brief ... n-america/
By Hindsite
#15010309
Godstud wrote:If you totally ignore the sources I have provided, then you could come up with that conclusion. I have provided sources, however, so your assertion is patently false.

The Link Between America’s Lax Gun Laws and the Violence That Fuels Immigration
March 22, 2018
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... mmigration

Stop Enabling Latin America's Gun Addiction
The U.S. can change a historic pattern of irresponsible arms sales driving regional violence.
https://www.americasquarterly.org/conte ... -addiction

New Data Reinforces Link Between Guns, Violence in Latin America
AUGUST 14, 2017
New US government data tracking the international flow of firearms provides additional evidence that guns remain a driving force behind high levels of violence and insecurity in Latin America.

The National Tracing Center (NTC) of the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) released new firearms trace data on August 8. The data covered the Bahamas, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, and Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean; Belize, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Panama in Central America; and also Mexico.

For each region, pistols were the most common type of firearm that authorities traced. Of 2,340 firearms traced in the Caribbean, almost two-thirds were pistols. In Central America and Mexico, that figure was more than 50 percent.

However, there were differences in individual countries. In Haiti, for instance, shotguns were the most common type of firearm traced by the ATF, followed by pistols.

The majority of the weapons traced in the Caribbean and Mexico were sourced from the United States. In Central America, on the other hand, roughly 60 percent of the weapons traced were determined to be from non-US suppliers.
The ATF figures are only representative of the sample of the guns that were traced, and may not correlate with overall patterns in each country or region.

https://www.insightcrime.org/news/brief ... n-america/

We already know that gun violence is continuing, but where does it state that guns are still being illegally obtained or smuggled from the U.S. to southern countries.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15010310
:roll: FFS, are you just pretending to be clueless? I outlined it in YELLOW for you. :knife:

Again, since you're being difficult:
The majority of the weapons traced in the Caribbean and Mexico were sourced from the United States.
By Hindsite
#15010314
Godstud wrote::roll: FFS, are you just pretending to be clueless? I outlined it in YELLOW for you. :knife:

Again, since you're being difficult:
The majority of the weapons traced in the Caribbean and Mexico were sourced from the United States.

That source was from 2017 and it does not even say that those firearms were illegally obtained or when they were obtained. So it does not prove your point.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15010316
If you want keep repeating the same tired mantra, I cannot stop you. read the whole article, and it proves the point. You will not do that, however, because it would show you are wrong.
By Hindsite
#15010319
Godstud wrote:If you want to keep repeating the same tired mantra, I cannot stop you. read the whole article, and it proves the point. You will not do that, however, because it would show you are wrong.

I read the whole article. I am satisfied. I am right.
Praise the Lord.
User avatar
By ingliz
#15010320
Hindsite wrote:I am right

The Mexican government say around 2,000 guns a day are smuggled across the US border.

The US government say they are investigating gun smuggling to Mexico.

It is plain, you are wrong.


:lol:
User avatar
By BigSteve
#15010332
That a lot of guns are sourced to the United States is of no surprise. We have a lot of gun manufacturers here...
User avatar
By Godstud
#15010335
A lot of gun smuggling, as well.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15010429
I have heard Hindsite make some outlandish claims in the past. Just look at his sig. Einstein never said that. The claim that there is no evidence that guns have been smuggled from the US to Mexico since Trump because president is about the oddest. It does not even make sense. He is trolling you Godstud.

The problem is that I made the argument he should have been making all along and everyone ignored it. He should be arguing that the gun smuggling is just like drug smuggling. It is stuff in search of a market. There is a market for drugs in the US and the profits are sufficiently high that the risk of arrest is not enough to stop the drugs. The same is true of guns into Mexico.

Blaming the US for Mexican gun violence is the exact same thing as blaming Mexican drug smugglers for the American drug problem. They are both pieces of the puzzle but they are effects, not causes.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15010472
@Drlee Yes, gun smuggling and lax US gun laws are one of the root causes of the "immigration crisis" that the right wingers cry about. When you mention it, however, it comes back to cries of, "You want to take all our guns away!!", and other such fantasy.
By SolarCross
#15010473
The liberlas actually do want to take the guns though. Sadly for the liberals you have to have a gun to even have a chance of nicking guns off of gunowners. I suppose that means they want the cops to do the taking instead of their own effete selves doing it. Cops with guns. The same cops they believe hunt blacks down for sport.

Image
By Hindsite
#15010512
ingliz wrote:The Mexican government say around 2,000 guns a day are smuggled across the US border.

The US government say they are investigating gun smuggling to Mexico.

It is plain, you are wrong.


:lol:

If I am wrong, then that is more reason why we should build border walls and provide more security.
User avatar
By Patrickov
#15010561
Hindsite wrote:Why can't I call it a lie, if it is my opinion? As you stated, we are not speaking in facts, but only opinions.


Accusing something as a lie is a statement that requires proof, not opinion, which doesn't.
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