[Demosthenes]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2020439


Latest Casualty in the NHL labor dispute...Bye, bye draft. At least for now.


Sidney Crosby's future is still up in the air...along with the other potential draftees.

I'm not sure if this thing is ever going to end. I have a feeling the "labor impasse" angle is going to be used to try and break the player's union, and that we'll be seeing replacement players this fall...

The situation just stinks in general. It's a shame the players have to pay for the NHL's poor marketing ability, or utter lack thereof...that's really what this amounts to. The NHL has no friggin clue how to market itself to the US. They should hire me...I could guarntee an improvement in a short time.

[Gnote]

In reality, what the NHL should do is:

1) Quit caring about the U.S. The game will never sell there, ever. People don't get the concept of guys on skates trying to hit a little black thing into a net. Sell the game in Canada where people actually like it. I could care less if Philly and Detroit and maybe the Rangers were the only American NHL teams.

2) Stay locked out as long as it takes to get the lowest possible salary cap in place. It is the owner's fault for running up the salaries yes, but the teams that skyrocketing salaries hurt are not the teams that are doing the skyrocketing.

[uglygoat]

haha die silly armored apes on skates!!

they should go with the mlb for casey striking out for the hundrenth time... along with the nfl and nba as 'prison work release programs'

pro sprots is a joke and will no longer take up any of my time, my beloved nascar too.

[Thoss]

Crosby will be survive on his multi-million dollar advertising campaign. Guys like Dion Phenuf who are as good, if not better in some respects don't have such luxury that I'm aware of.

I agree with Gnote. Fuck the south USA. Lets focus on where there is a passionate hockey following. Lets move a few teams North. Quebec City, Winnipeg etc.

As for the lockout I again agree. I don't want to see an agreement thats going to fuck up in a few years. I sure as shit don't want to see us back square one.

[Red_Army]

I'm with you guys on getting hockey out of the US, its a dirty canuck sport anyway. Keep it you lazy fisher lumberjacks! No one here wants to see failed football players getting into pissing contests anyway. (Just in case you don't get my sarcasm, I don't have anything against Canada, I just like to play into the whole anti-Canadian trend that goes on in the USA).

[Todd D.]

I absolutely LOVE the fact that despite the fact that most people here are leftists, the only person that I've seen blame the Owners in this entire debacle is Demo. All the leftists are actually blaming the Union and the Players (workers). Make no mistake, I believe that's where most of the blame lies, I just think it's hilarious.

[mindstrip]

An outrage! It is the fault of the decadent americans! Revolution! We shall take back our game in a bloody revolution!

[Demosthenes]

Well speaking as someone from one of those semo-southern states that you want to pull back out of, and as a non-convential fan I KNOW the game can reach Americans. It's that good. It, like anything else, is just a matter of marketing.

Rememebr the hilarious goalie commericals a few years ago? The ones with Panger and the others?

(Panger is in his Blackhawk gear behind the counter at McDonalds, two pimple faced teenagers walk up...)
First one asks: "Hey didn't you used to play for the Blackhawks?"
Panger says: "Yeah...I used to play for the Blackhawks...Until Sergei Federov skated into the league...With his long hair and fancy Nike skates! He exposed a weak glove hand...(bangs counter repeatedly with glove) "...WEAK, WEAK, WEAK...GLOVE HAND..."

Ah...classic...The product just needs to be sold better. And you all are nuts if you think Canada alone can support the sport on any meaningful level. You need the States, like or not. Though I'm not against returning a couple franchises back to Canada where they belong. Carolina and Pheonix are rediculous places for NHL teams. Winipeg and Quebec deserve tehm back. But that's just pning for something that's not going to happen.

At any rate, I agree about the big market teams hurting the small market clubs. The top six have (with the Rangers in particular) really hurt it.

And Todd, I'm just trying to be fair. The owners let the market get over their heads. I can't blame a player for taking money offered to him. Now the owners are renigging (assuming the 24% rollback on salaries is accepted) on all contracts. Of course the players also have to realize that they are not NFL, MLB, or NBA players. Essentailly their tv revenue is negligible. The have no leverage.

meh...both sides suck for robbing of us of the game, and I don't care which country your from.

[Devlar]

Todd D wrote:

All the leftists are actually blaming the Union and the Players (workers)

Because leftists in general don't like greed and can answer the question of "how much is enough". Yes, that's a generalization, but for the most part self-restraint is embodied far more in the left, as seen by the ecology, cooperative, and socialistic movements.

As far as I'm concerned, meh, I'm Canadian and I don't watch Hockey. I'm sure those people can find something else to spend their 50 dollars on than overpaid atheletes. I'm rather happy they are going to go see those amateurs play now. Those guys get paid shit, and work much harder than the pros.

[Todd D.]

Because leftists in general don't like greed and can answer the question of "how much is enough". Yes, that's a generalization, but for the most part self-restraint is embodied far more in the left, as seen by the ecology, cooperative, and socialistic movements.

Blah blah blah. "Enough" is subjective. Basketball players get paid more than Hockey players do, yet the NBA is (now) able to operate at a subsistant level. Fact is that the Union has priced themselves out of the market, and now because of a collective bargaining agreement, they are unable to take less money and keep playing.

Demo, you're right, you can't blame the players for taking juicy contracts, but what you can do is blame the Players Union for blocking any and all attempts at instituting a Salary Cap BEFORE this became an issue (back in the early 90's I believe). They, like most unions, played victim and pretended that it was the big bad owners trying to stiff them. That's where I object.

[Devlar]

I'm not saying it isn't. In fact I'd be the first to point out the fact that most of what people say is enough, is in fact not enough once they get more money ^_^. But then, greed rules and ideology blinds, much in the same way that it has blinded you to the usefulness of Unions. To each his own then?

[Gnote]

meh...both sides suck for robbing of us of the game, and I don't care which country your from.

Couldn't agree more.

My hope is that they hammer in a salary cap somewhere around $35-$40 million. Then we might ACTUALLY SEE teams moving BACK to Canada. If Ottawa can support a team at a salary cap somewhere around there andcompete with the rest of the league, Winnipeg can, and Quebec city probably could too. There might even be other places, though I'm not certain about that.

That's what I would like to see.

There are atleast 7 places in the U.S. that should not have hockey teams:

L.A.
Nashville
Phoenix
Carolina
Anaheim
Atlanta
Pittsburgh (I'm sure they like hockey and all, but they can't support the team)

If they moved 2 of those teams to Winnipeg and Quebec, and maybe a couple teams to the northern U.S: I dunno, Seattle? Back to Hartford? Then the league would become much better. A 25 team league would be of way better calibre than this 30 team bullshit with all the clutching and grabbing.

While they're at it they can make the ice bigger and take out the redline.

[Byrath]

Definitely some changes to the game itself are badly needed. Its just gotten dull ... even to a die-hard like myself. Bigger ice would be the best thing that could happen, but it won't happen anytime soon. Add a couple inches to each side of the goals, get the save %'s back into the .870, .880 range, I think that would be good.
As far as the labor dispute goes, the union was insane to not accept a 43$ million cap. The league was pretty crazy to offer it in the first place. Ideally, it should be in the 20-25$ million range, and ticket and concession prices should be lowered. Ahhh, pipe dreams...

[Demosthenes]

Todd D. said:

but what you can do is blame the Players Union for blocking any and all attempts at instituting a Salary Cap BEFORE this became an issue (back in the early 90's I believe). They, like most unions, played victim and pretended that it was the big bad owners trying to stiff them.

Actually this is very true. I'm not impressed with this union, it thinks it's bigger than it is. I strongly support the NFL's use of a salary cap, it's clearly made the game the cream of the North American crop in terms of financial and labor stability, despite the recent minor squabbles of course. I've wondered all along why MLB (with the Yankees primarily) and the NHL haven't modeled their leagues after this truly suberb formula. The answer: their unions, who have swung the pendulum too far their way.

Devlar said:

Because leftists in general don't like greed and can answer the question of "how much is enough".

I don't think is true. I don't see any one ideology that really knows how much is enough. You're smarter than this Devlar.

But then, greed rules and ideology blinds,

This is a tad ironic considering your previous quoted statement.

much in the same way that it has blinded you to the usefulness of Unions. To each his own then?

I'm not blind to the good some Unions have done. Certainly I see at the local level that they function fairly. When you start adding the bureaucracy though, that's when I start to see corruption and problems with Unions. Particularly when it's a union for multi-million dollar crybabies...err...not that I'm saying they shouldn't have the right to be multi-million dollar crybabies.

Gnote said:

My hope is that they hammer in a salary cap somewhere around $35-$40 million.

I agree, though since I'm a Flyers fan I wouldn't mind the $45 million high end...ah...but for the good of the league I'd live with whatever is equitable.

Then we might ACTUALLY SEE teams moving BACK to Canada. If Ottawa can support a team at a salary cap somewhere around there and compete with the rest of the league,

I actually have to give Ottawa a lot of credit for being where they are now. Few Pro sports teams in any league can survive bankruptcy and still put forth a strongly competitive team like they have the last few years.

L.A.
Nashville
Phoenix
Carolina
Anaheim
Atlanta
Pittsburgh (I'm sure they like hockey and all, but they can't support the team)

Yeah, ok now I see moe specifically what you were talking about. I hate to see Pittsburgh lose their franchise but as you say they can't support the team.

30 team bullshit with all the clutching and grabbing.

God I wish I could have watched the game back in the 80s...I can't imagine how much better it was then.

While they're at it they can make the ice bigger and take out the redline.

heh...I wouldn't mind seeing the goalie stuck in the crease either, but maybe that's just because Martin Brodeur is the DEBIL!!! (heh). At any rate I've always thought that was a little shady allowing them to roam free as they please.

[Gnote]

heh...I wouldn't mind seeing the goalie stuck in the crease either, but maybe that's just because Martin Brodeur is the DEBIL!!! (heh). At any rate I've always thought that was a little shady allowing them to roam free as they please.

Heh, yeah. I actually liked the idea that was proposed before the strike - only allowing them to play the puck directly behind the net.

The guy that REALLY pissed me off by playing the puck all the time was Patrick Roy. He'd come out to the friggen blueline half the time. I hated that son of a bitch, probably because of the way he ditched my Habs .

[Devlar]

Demo wrote:

This is a tad ironic considering your previous quoted statement.

AND

I don't see any one ideology that really knows how much is enough. You're smarter than this Devlar.

I was refering to the direction of ideology not to the ideology themselves. Concrete ideologies such as libertariansim, or communism or whateverism tend to blind. What I was refering to is the fact that the question of "how much is enough" economically, rarely comes up in the intellectual discourse of the right. The left may get the wrong numbers, but they are at least asking the question on a regular basis.


Demo wrote:

I'm not blind to the good some Unions have done.

It wasn't aimed at you. I actually find conservative traditionalists have more respect for unions than most.

[| I, CWAS |]

Fuck Hockey and the Ice is skated in on.

*I was just getting into the sport, then poof.

[Todd D.]

I never forgave them for moving the greatest team of all time.




You know you all fear the Whale.

[| I, CWAS |]

I know, less than, next to nothing about hocky, but I know you are from Conn, so I'll assume it's Hartford, plus I think they were the whalers, not sure, but I use to buy hocky video games years ago.

[Todd D.]

Indeed, Hartford Whalers. Moved out and became the Carolina Hurricanes back in 97 or 98. To this day at the AHL Wolfpack games, "Let's go Whalers" chants still start up. Those were the days...