China a fascist state? - Page 14 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The non-democratic state: Platonism, Fascism, Theocracy, Monarchy etc.
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#15176025
wat0n wrote:Right, but for instance countries with 12k weren't considered to be developed at the time.


Actually in 2006 countries with 12k countries be considered to be more or less developed/high income: https://photius.com/rankings/economy/gd ... 006_0.html

The answer is i guess complicated but you get my point.
#15176063
noemon wrote:China has always been interesting to fascists because they expect China will make fascism not just an ok system to have but a popular one also.


Nobody expects that because China does not export its politics abroad, in fact it does trade and investment completely independently from ideology.
#15176065
JohnRawls wrote:PPP is not a metric of measuring the middle income gap :lol:
Nominal is used for that.

The main "idea" behind the income gap is that you need to transition from low wage manufacturing to more advanced sectors on mass because the salaries have went significantly up along with the people requiring more services from the public sector.


That already happened in China about 10 years ago. Value added services and technologies are the name of the game. Most of its low end manufacturing is being moved to south east Asia and Africa by Chinese companies because the cheaper labor costs. Cheap Shoes, mass branded clothes, plastic toys etc. China has been the biggest high tech manufacturer for over a decade now, and the world's second largest service economy with its own knowledge/innovation base formed in the new silicon valley of Asia, Shenzhen; since 2015.

Why do you think the Us is with futility outright banning and sanctioning Chinese technology, fintech and service multinationals, even going as far as to try and command its puppets and clients from engaging with them. They've transitioned into a global threat to their competitors and the competition can't keep up. Show me the 80+ Brazilian or Indian companies the US has fearfully sanctioned recently. Oh wait they don't exist.

So uh, no trap. :roll:

What makes China unique is it has retained its domestic supply chains, boosted by infrastructure already far superior to that in the west. This means it will never suffer the fate of the US, its industrial base is not going anywhere.
By Rugoz
#15176110
China's relatively low nominal GDP tells us that China's export sector has still relatively low productivity and mainly competes through cheap labor.

That doesn't mean China is trapped, and of course with 1.4bn people it will be a formidable power even if cannot quite match the West in terms of productivity.
#15176112
Igor Antunov wrote:Nobody expects that because China does not export its politics abroad, in fact it does trade and investment completely independently from ideology.


You expect, wish and pray for the day that China exports Fascism across the world.
#15176162
noemon wrote:You expect, wish and pray for the day that China exports Fascism across the world.


Very unlikely. The ideal for such people that is easily understandable is strong man in power and international relations governed by something like the concert of Europe of the 19th century. Little do people forget that liberalism destroyed the concert of Europe in the end with 0 assistance and 0 support from outside. The people themselves choose a more liberal democratic systems and all those strongman and monarchs and emperors couldn't do anything about and those who resisted basically perished in to the bowels of history, only those noble families and monarchs who embraced it managed to survive till our day.
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By noemon
#15176200
JohnRawls wrote:Very unlikely. The ideal for such people that is easily understandable is strong man in power and international relations governed by something like the concert of Europe of the 19th century. Little do people forget that liberalism destroyed the concert of Europe in the end with 0 assistance and 0 support from outside. The people themselves choose a more liberal democratic systems and all those strongman and monarchs and emperors couldn't do anything about and those who resisted basically perished in to the bowels of history, only those noble families and monarchs who embraced it managed to survive till our day.


That is called wishful thinking in the past.

You do not see a repeat, but a parody and then a tragedy.

The Hellenic people say:

History repeats itself 3 times, first as the present, second as a parody and third as a tragedy.
#15176214
Rugoz wrote:China's relatively low nominal GDP tells us that China's export sector has still relatively low productivity and mainly competes through cheap labor.

That doesn't mean China is trapped, and of course with 1.4bn people it will be a formidable power even if cannot quite match the West in terms of productivity.


No, what it tells us is that China has more people than north america, south america and europe combined and that it takes time for everyone to catch up. 500 million Chinese still only make $2k a year, 300 million still endeavor to move from countryside into cities. The rapid growth is not ending anytime soon. China also has no privatized finance sector and that's probably for the best given how much utter waste goes into the US stock market. It manufactures the most value added complex goods and services you can manufacture. Wechat and its multi-applet capabilities are years beyond anything in the west.

Us bloats its gdp with the finance sector that it shovels printed dollars at. $7 trillion since the start of 2020 alone. Not a cent went into meaningful infrastructure outside of new nuclear plants being built. Microsoft for example paid 0% taxes on 300 billion in income it derived from Chinese manufacturing and primarily global sales. The majority of apples sales growth which similarly dodges its US tax obligations was in china for 2020-2021. US citizens got nothing out of these companies anymore outside of a few jobs, most of which are now abroad, yet the numbers still get logged on the 'muh gdp' tally. China pumped less than $200 billion into the incinerator in the same period. The other trillions went into railways and metros. Soon the petrodollar will become increasingly irrelevant and this endless printing and pumping of stocks will be impossible to do.

Germany has a lower nominal gdp than the US, yet it is the US committing espionage on German companies trying to steal productivity from where it matters-goods manufacturing.

The writing is on the wall: The global economy is decoupling from...the US.

Wall Street bulls charge into China’s opening markets
https://asiatimes.com/2021/06/wall-stre ... g-markets/

Deutsche Bank warns of global 'time bomb' coming due to rising inflation
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/07/deutsch ... ation.html

China buys fewer American goods in May; trade surplus grows
China bought $13.11 billion dollars’ worth of goods from the U.S. in May, down from $13.94 billion in April, customs data accessed through Wind Information showed.
While overall Chinese imports from other countries grew at their fastest pace in 10 years — up 51.1% — the pace of growth for imports from the U.S. slowed to 41% in May from a year ago, versus 52% the prior month.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/07/china-b ... grows.html


As of Jan 2021:

    Goldman grabs a controlling stake in a wealth management partnership with ICBC

    JP Morgan applied to take full control of its mainland securities venture.

    BlackRock got 50.1% wealth-management stake in China Construction Bank.

    Vanguard has shifted its Asia headquarters from Tokyo to Shanghai.

    Citigroup is applying to open a new wholly-owned domestic securities business in China.

    HSBC is closing its US retail banking business and accelerating its pivot to China.

    French asset manager Amundi is upping its presence via relationships with Bank of China.

    Germany’s Schroders gained approval for a majority-owned partnership.

    Switzerland’s Credit Suisse has detailed ambitious mainland hiring plans.

    Morgan Stanley, Nomura Holdings, Standard Chartered and UBS are all expanding in China
#15176326
Igor Antunov wrote:No, what it tells us is that China has more people than north america, south america and europe combined and that it takes time for everyone to catch up. 500 million Chinese still only make $2k a year, 300 million still endeavor to move from countryside into cities.


I never said it was not an average, also it's about nominal vs PPP.

The rest of your post is just the usual "China stronk" nonsense. You should write propaganda for the CCP. Ironic, given you're basically a Nazi, or at least closer to being one than anybody else on Pofo. Isn't Fasces an ex-Fascist?

China might not qualify as fascist, but it certainly appeals to the same kind of people.


JohnRawls wrote:Very unlikely. The ideal for such people that is easily understandable is strong man in power and international relations governed by something like the concert of Europe of the 19th century. Little do people forget that liberalism destroyed the concert of Europe in the end with 0 assistance and 0 support from outside. The people themselves choose a more liberal democratic systems and all those strongman and monarchs and emperors couldn't do anything about and those who resisted basically perished in to the bowels of history, only those noble families and monarchs who embraced it managed to survive till our day.


The Western European experience is really quite different from the East Asian one. I don't think the democratization of Japan, Korea and Taiwan was a foregone conclusion. Those countries were after all under US protection and influence, which no doubt encouraged the transition (or at least I don't doubt it did).
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