[Verv]

The latter. I hope that he'll increase his investment in socially conservative claptrap of the worst sort, so that the young generation will be even more alienated from the Church.

Take note:

Fascists are famously socially liberal. Traditionally, Fascists reject overriding moral concepts that wish to instill people with a sense of integrity, dignity and unity in culture & behavior.

They favor libertine sexuality and singing kumbaya around the fire.

[Rei Murasame]

I love that sarcastic dichotomy. I guess if I hate Christianity, I could only be embracing liberalism, right?

You have to try harder than this, Verv.

Quote time:

As Shmuel Trigano notes, "by projecting itself as the new Israel, the West has given to Judaism a de facto jurisdiction, albeit not the right to be itself." This means that the West can become "Israelite" to the extent that it denies Jews the right to be Israelites. Henceforth, the very notion of "Judeo-Christianity" can be defined as a double incarceration. It imprisons "the Christian West," which by its own deliberate act has subordinated itself to an alien "jurisdiction," and which by doing so denies this very same jurisdiction to its legitimate (Jewish) owners. Furthermore, it imprisons the Jews who, by virtue of a religion different from their own, are now undeservedly caught in the would-be place of their "accomplishment" by means of a religion which is not their own.

Trigano further adds: "If Judeo-Christianity laid the foundations of the West, then the very place of Israel is also the West." Subsequently, the requisites of "Westernization" must also become the requisites of assimilation and "normalization," and the denial of identity. "The crisis of Jewish normality is the crisis of the westernization of Judaism. Therefore, to exit from the West means for the Jews to turn their back to their 'normality,' that is, to open themselves up to their otherness." This seems to be why Jewish communities today criticize the "Western model," only after they first adopt their own specific history of a semi-amnesiac and semi-critical attitude.

In view of this, Christian anti-Semitism can be rightly described as neurosis. As Jean Blot writes, it is because of its "predisposition toward alienation" that the West is incapable of "fulfilling itself or rediscovering itself." And from this source arises anti-Semitic neurosis. "Anti-semitism allows the anti-Semite to project onto the Jew his own neuroses. He calls him a stranger, because he [the European Christian] himself is a stranger, a crook, a powerful man, a parvenu; he calls him a Jew, because he [the European Christian] himself is this Jew in the deepest depth of his soul, always on the move, permanently alienated, a stranger to his own religion and to God who incarnates him."

By replacing his original myth with the myth of biblical monotheism, the West has turned Hebraism into its own superego. As an inevitable consequence, the West had to turn itself against the Jewish people by accusing them of not pursuing the "conversion" in terms of the "logical" evolution proceeding from Sinai to Christianity. In addition, the West also accused the Jewish people of attempting, in an apparent "deicide," to obstruct this evolution.

This is something I've said here over and over again. I can't even decide on what colour to highlight this stuff. Shall I go with blue, or red?

Ethical and religious Christianity today is nothing more than a name and a habit, absolutely external to conscience; but nobody, or nearly nobody, has bothered to abolish the name itself and to put its content on trial again, so as to start right back at the beginning, rejecting the "fact" of Christianity, its "tradition" and all the rest.

This is precisely my intent: to hold such a trial, demanding that every account to be scrutinized with inflexible severity, that all cards be placed openly on the table, and that every way out and every compromise be barred in advance. At stake are not more or less anticlerical polemics but rather a serious, objective examination, unbiased by feeling and belief. A cool-headed examination should suffice to blunt the ecstatic thrill and to unmask the true poverty and inferiority of the Christian vision of the world and of man.

Your response of course, Verv, will be to call me a 'doctrinaire antisemite' or something, but I really don't care what you call me.

Young people are waking up. You can't use mockery or sarcasm to dissuade us from looking at what is right in front of our faces. If you want to be pro-Israel and pro-Christianity, go ahead, but don't try to act like those are coherent positions in the far-right.

Also, bonus quote:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realise that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. My regret will have been that I couldn't behold it.

[Sithsaber]

Neo paganism doesn't really seem to be the answer to this. No matter how much it has been distorted, Christianity is still a Martyr and a inclusiverenunciation religion. Turning to war gods and demon moon foxes does tend to hurt unity and ethics in the long run.

[Rei Murasame]

Depends on what kind of ethics you want, doesn't it? It's simply that we are aiming to create a different kind of society, on purpose.

When I read 'the Sermon on the Mount' (aka, 'the Beatitiudes'), I find myself caught between laughter and disgust.

[Verv]

I can quote, too, Rei:

I hope that he'll increase his investment in socially conservative claptrap of the worst sort, so that the young generation will be even more alienated from the Church.

That is what you said.

I am not talking about the concept of anti-Christianity that you have specifically but the fact that you support social liberalism and libertine sexuality. This is decidedly un-fascist.

You are a NazBol. Face it.

[Sithsaber]

Because seppuku, god emperors and killing yourself due to the influence of evil kami around Mt Fugi is so much better.

ps: based on my brief understanding of it most shinto seem to fit what is acceptable in pre christian comparable theology.

[Rei Murasame]

That is what you said.

And I stand by it.

I am not talking about the concept of anti-Christianity that you have specifically but the fact that you support social liberalism and libertine sexuality.

I suppose I do if the comparison point is the Taliban.

This is decidedly un-fascist.

The likelihood of me taking your criticisms seriously is exactly nil, because you aren't even a fascist anyway.

The immediate and inevitable fact which forces us to come to grips with Christianity is that the mainstream Christian churches are all, without exception, preaching a doctrine of White racial extinction. They preach racial egalitarianism and racial mixing. They preach non-resistance to the takeover of our society by non-Whites. It was the Christian churches, more than any other institution, which paralyzed the will of White South Africans to survive. It is the Christian establishment in the United States which is preeminent in sapping the will of White Americans to resist being submerged in the non-White tide sweeping across the land.

Most Christian authorities collaborate openly with the Jews, despite the contempt and abuse they receive in return, and the rest at least follow Jewish policies on the all-important matter of race. The occasional anomaly—a Catholic bishop in Poland speaking out angrily against Jewish arrogance, a few Protestant groups in the United States expressing sympathy for oppressed Palestinians—does not invalidate the rule.

We are obliged, therefore, to oppose the Christians churches and to speak out against their doctrines.

[...]

It is not an Aryan religion; like Judaism and Islam it is Semitic in origin, and all its centuries of partial adaptation to Aryan ways have not changed its basic flavor. It was carried by a Jew, Saul of Tarsus (later known as Paul), from the Levant to the Greco-Roman world. Its doctrines that the meek shall inherit the earth and that the last shall be the first found fertile soil among the populous slave class in Rome. Centuries later, as Rome was succumbing to an internal rot in which Christianity played no small part, legions of Roman conscripts imposed the imported religion on the Celtic and Germanic tribes to the north.

[...]

The fact is that, [even] completely aside from the [aforementioned] racial question, no person who wholeheartedly believes Christian doctrine can share our values and goals, because Christian doctrine holds that this world is of little importance, being only a proving ground for the spiritual world which one enters after death. Christian doctrine also holds that the condition of this world is not man’s responsibility, because an omnipotent and omniscient deity alone has that responsibility.

And we are also off topic now, so I will go no further.

[Sithsaber]

Well the concept of the opiate of the masses tends to new a bit of expansion when it lumps death cults and "slave religions" into the same category.

ps: The slave religion concept has been around since the Romans tried to put it down. Based on the message alone Christianity is vastly superior to war gods soaked in blood that constantly abducted their consorts. Well to be honest theurgy in general along with certain dualist Iranian concepts along with developed buddhism are also in the running for widespread subjective respectability but seriously, if you're going to abandon religion why go back to the ultra reactionary beliefs of the past?

[oppose_obama]

all religions are slave religions. all religions have you believe in some bullshit that isnt real so it makes you feel better. i dont see why you concentrate on christianity.

[Sithsaber]

Well kind of in a material sense. But it can also be used for a necessary "good" in certain situations (see the reformation, the left wing's use of liberation theology, and the use of churches and mosques to organize african americans etc.)

[Rei Murasame]

Seriously Sithsaber and Oppose_Obama, if you guys don't get it, then there's nothing further I can do to explain it to you. It's like one of those "orange vs. blue morality" scenarios where you will never understand what we're saying because we see life completely differently from how you do and we have completely different goals.

It'll be mutually unintelligible, because it's like you are saying "if you let A exist, then B can happen", and I am saying, "I am against B in the first place, we never shared that goal".

Regarding liberation theology, I've talked about that around here before, but the fact is that 'liberation theology' on the left - and 'positive Christianity' on the far-right - is an attempt to Marxify and Fascify the Christian religion, respectively. And while that may 'work' (with all terrible long-term ramifications that come from self-poisoning) under some circumstances, that is something that they were forced to do as a subversive manoeuvre in a society unfortunately dominated by Christians. Now that Christianity is waning in popularity among young people, there is no need to even pretend to humour Christianity in action, and we can just spit upon it openly.

Look at the low Church attendance rates in Europe. I have no problem with kicking a dog while it's down, this is the point in history that we have been waiting for.

[Sithsaber]

Meanwhile, Shinto continues to be more relevant than Christianity. Wait...

[Rei Murasame]

I don't think that's a counter-argument. In Britain 40% of the of the population claims to adhere to a monotheistic religion, 20% claim to be atheist, and 40% claim to believe in some kind of 'spiritual force(s)' or a 'polytheistic religion'.

Yet also at the same time, Christian church attendance is down at like 15%. So are the 40% monotheists actually attending the churches that they claim to belong to?

It's only a matter of time before this farce comes to an end.

[Sithsaber]

Because most church attenders in the west are wishy washy lapsed religious who only go to church on Easter or when granny gets AIDS. But that goes for most of the developed world, not just the west. And I have heard that Japan is even worse.

[Rei Murasame]

So if you acknowledge that European Christians are all wishy-washy and lapsed, then having a cavalcade of moronic Church leaders demonstrating that they really don't care about what the population thinks on anything, and that they don't wish to be a real part of their host nation, will make it incredibly easy for nationalists and/or socialists to put an end to the whole game within a generation.

You cannot save the Christian religion from its imminent destruction. Just enjoy the ride, because with Christianity out of the way, Europe will finally be able to forge an independent spiritual-historical-ideological-philosophical path for itself, free from the ball-and-chain of Jerusalem.

[Sithsaber]

1. That doesn't mean superficial dominance of Christianity is going away any time soon and even when that goes it will still probably be the main minority faith in a sea of secularism and occasional pseudo mystic bullshit.

2. And seriously, ultra feminists, metal heads praising thor and the occasional doomsday cult doesn't really have the potential to overtake Christendom. This isn't Quatermass, why would serious religious devotion to half assed reconstructed paganism dominate society?

ps: And Venezuela and Cuba's limited promotion of Santeria and the Maria Lionza Venezuelan equivalent is due to various underlying factors that make this more of a anomaly than a trend. Syncretism in Catholicism is always huge, and the mix of cultures can settle in various ways. But even if this becomes more engrained in "respectable" society it is almost always dependent on folk culture that can be easily swayed. That and the fact that after millenia faeries, leprechauns and other shit have evolved to cultural curiosity rather than elder gods.

[Travesty]

So if you acknowledge that European Christians are all wishy-washy and lapsed, then having a cavalcade of moronic Church leaders demonstrating that they really don't care about what the population thinks on anything, and that they don't wish to be a real part of their host nation, will make it incredibly easy for nationalists and/or socialists to put an end to the whole game within a generation.

No socialists and fascists will not put an end to Christianity when they dont come to power, one group tried and failed and the other compromised historically. In Europe the fastest growing Religion is Islam so that is a bigger threat to Christianity then a hypothetical socialist uprising.

[Rei Murasame]

1. That doesn't mean superficial dominance of Christianity is going away any time soon and even when that goes it will still probably be the main minority faith in a sea of secularism and occasional pseudo mystic bullshit.

It is going away even in these very days and hours, that's why Christians are constantly panicking and talking about how values have changed. Well, values are going to change even more soon.

I mean, this is what you guys are pushing: [Link]

It's a ridiculous belief system.

2. And seriously, ultra feminists, metal heads praising thor and the occasional doomsday cult doesn't really have the potential to overtake Christendom.

Mischaracterising the opposition can only help, I hope that Christians continue to believe that no ideology can possibly arise that might offer a 'complete way of life' which excludes Christian thought, it would definitely make the looks of anguish on their faces when it happens, all the more comical.

Because you guys are convinced that pagan reconstructionists and metalheads and so on are going to be your opponents, when the real opponents reveal themselves you all won't even see it coming.

No socialists and fascists will not put an end to Christianity when they dont come to power, one group tried and failed and the other compromised historically.

No compromises will be needed this time, as I pointed out earlier. Why would we need to compromise with people who have so little hold over the minds of young people?

In Europe the fastest growing Religion is Islam so that is a bigger threat to Christianity then a hypothetical socialist uprising.

Bring them on, it will be fantastic to see how Christianity will fail at repelling Islam, and the people will have to turn to something else, rather than thinking that they can have some absurd repetition of the Crusades. One of the more positive aspects of Islamic immigration is that it is demonstrating that Christian churches either don't give a damn about ethnic issues or can't be bothered to muster up a fight.

[Sithsaber]

1. Seppuku and a god emperor. Nuff said.

2. Besides a secret Vril funded neo Jungian theurgy or the fanatical whims of the god emperor i can picture no credible opposition.

3. Churches aren't supposed to oppose other ethnicities.

4. Euroabia is a sensationist belief, just like the yellow peril was a century ago. Even with the power of demographics who knows how society will shift point by point across the centuries, but Latin American emigration to Europe could always pick up, and who knows, maybe one day the 3rd world will stop being such a shithole.

5. When the aliens come however, syncretism is not out of the picture (that or my theories on reality are correct, and consciousness and form are not bound to the forms we are used to, which will result in demons of the air attempting to consume us which shall bring about a brief but temporary apocalypse. That or this is a simulation and/ or an empty universe made just for us. That or all is figuratively and/or literally Vishnu's dream.)

[Verv]

The likelihood of me taking your criticisms seriously is exactly nil, because you aren't even a fascist anyway.

...
And we are also off topic now, so I will go no further.

Perhaps this should be done in a private message but the idea of an anti-semitic social liberal feminist who happens to also be a racist being more legitimate in the far right scene is incorrect.

I will have a 'who has more credit?' competition with Rei in front of the Far Right any day.

But I enjoy our little back & forth action and I think the point of PoFo is to facilitate just that. If a thread appears to go a 'little bit off' so be it if it is productive.